| Author | Message | ||
     Bads1 |
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/he_beating_the_ system_V4MHAtqaCYh1DeuzX8PCDL | ||
| Ducxl |
Fraud is rampant In Boston too | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If he were a physician who couldn't conduct surgeries any longer but was able to teach or sell medical supplies for the same or more money, he'd still be eligible to collect disability for not being able to do his own occupation. I agree that his lung capacity isn't materially affected compared to the average person. You can't do MMA and have weak lungs. You'd gas out in a hurry. That said, lung capacity from physical exertion and lung capacity in a toxic inhalation situation are two different things. Now if he were out for a back problem and was doing MMA, I'd be calling BS. | ||
| Spike240sx |
I tend to agree with Ft-Bstrd. So what! He choose not to sit on his ass and stay physically active. | ||
| Froggy |
I'm with Ft_b too, same reasons. People are jumping to conclusions. | ||
| Buellerandy |
Yeah, when you try to stay at your job and a panel of 12 still boot you out, i'd take the money too. | ||
| Malott442 |
If he were poor and fighting, he'd be an inspiration for overcoming diversity. Report on all the kiddie touchers' and murderers. That report was a waste of my time. Damn media, skewed as ever. | ||
| Hootowl |
3/4 disability is 75K? NYFD makes 100K after 12 years? That's almost as much as a librarian! | ||
| Kyrocket |
Yeah, sounds to me the docs are the ones who told him he had asthma and other ailments. Also sounds like he tried to stay on. I don't see it as beating the system in this case. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
to the nay sayers: walk a mile in full turn outs with scba and hose and other equipment on. lemme know how that works out for you. i wasn't at ground zero but i have been trained as firefighter and volunteered for a while. holy moly is that hard work when your working a fire. i wouldn't want anyone of any diminished capacity on a hose with me. whether mental physical or both(lung damage ptsd). good for him. | ||
| Blake |
If indeed he tried to stay on but was forced to retire, I can sympathize. If what actually happened was that he instigated his disability retirement or just went along with it, then it is shady at worst or just plain laziness by his employer. I think that more facts are needed. Bottom line for me is that it's just another example of extravagant public employee benefits. If any deserve them, it's the guys who dive into fire for a living. It sure seems odd that the the department couldn't find another job for the man. I just don't like the idea of paying someone to not work. It is the wrong approach. Find the man some work that he can do! He's obviously capable. | ||
| Blake |
I guess I just don't like the entitlement mentality that is willing to accept such arrangements. The Dems and their union cohorts have convinced too many folks that they are owed free money from taxpayers. This makes me want to investigate my own local fire and police contracts. | ||
| Strokizator |
The firefighters experience is somewhat unique. In Boston, as well as other cities, 76% of retirements were disability retirements. That's staggering. Of those, fully 2/3's of those retirements were while the firefighter were serving temporary assignments "out of grade". This allowed them to game the system for even more money as they "retired" at 75% of the temporary higher pay grade. If 2/3's of the construction work force retired on disability, our insurance rates would be so high that nothing would ever be built. Not only that but it would be a national scandal that greedy business owners were crippling employees with apparent disregard for life or limb. http://www.bmrb.org/content/upload/BFDdisability.p df | ||
| Bads1 |
Plain and simple his lung disease and Asthma can't be to bad if he can do this. | ||
| Froggy |
75k salary isn't even anything in Metro NY due to cost of living. In Manhattan, the only thing on the McDonald's dollar menu is a single McNugget. Many NYPD cops are underpaid on the other hand.
I agree, last thing we need is him putting other lives in jeopardy. It is a totally different thing to have a health issue in the middle of a sport, where nobodies life is in danger except his own. | ||
| Bads1 |
Froggy..... if he can do these sports he isn't disabled enough that he should be getting paid. My wife just about was floored by the write-up. (Message edited by bads1 on September 01, 2011) | ||
| Davegess |
Yeah those dam firefighters risking their lives so that he public has to pay them, lowest of the low. Any fire department is going to have more people who are physically unable to perform than they have spots to really put them. Not a lot of desk jobs in a fire department and the person may absolutely suck at something you could make them do. I guy who runs into burning buildings may be a very bad clerk, one doesn't need to be good at math or filing to be a firefighter. Plus is it fair to say to a firefighter "you risked your life for this job and now you have to be clerk for the remainder of your time until you qualify for retirement." I don't think so. | ||
| Hootowl |
So who says they have to live in Metro NY? They're not on duty at home, they stay at the fire house while they're on duty. Lots of people work in Manhattan who don't live there. I don't begrudge firemen their salary, but to retire at 75K a year after 12 years with a company is bit over the top. Disabled is one thing, but this guy is obviously not disabled. I guess the city can afford it though or they wouldn't be doing it. That was only said with a mild amount of sarcasm. | ||
| Froggy |
Hoot, you clearly don't know the cost of living anywhere within a 50 mile radius of NYC. In your opinion, how much should he be getting after 12 years of putting his ass on the line and watching his friends and co workers die due to the nature of the job?
Oh ok, I'll make sure he gets hit by a truck, that way he is justified. I'm sorry that someone isn't letting a health stopping them from enjoying life upsets you and your wife. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Hoot Bad it's relative and until you've donned the gear and walked the walk you have no idea what you're talking about. i have and if he has even a 'touch' of a lung issue i wouldn't want him with me in a blaze/rescue situation. | ||
| Bads1 |
A Cardioligist would have to say hes not capable to do the job. Thing is did his Lungs repair Kinda like a Smokers lung will?? | ||
| Bads1 |
Boog you know a firemens job.... great. I have a Nurse of 20 years for a wife that heads a group of Heart/lung surgeon's and this is what she specializes in. She also is a teacher for critical care in that area. So I don't care about walking the walk. | ||
| Crusty |
Isn't it funny how perception influences our perspective? On May 1, 1997, a jersey barrier fell over and crushed my ankle while I was at work.Until the case was settled, I was getting roughly 1/2 of my normal take home pay, which meant that I had no choice but to live very frugally. As soon as I was able to (actually before the Doctor O.K.ed it) I started using a motorcycle to get around. The insurance co. had an agent following me and filmed me riding my bike. They used the argument that if I was well enough to ride a motorcycle, then I was well enough to return to work as a miner. The fact that there was no way in hell I could even walk in a tunnel, let alone work in one had no bearing on case. The attorney for A.I.G. showed the judge the video, and she agreed with him. I received a minimal settlement; I lost my career, and was not even eligible for retraining. All because I found it much less painful to ride a motorcycle than to drive a car. And for the record, there's still no way in hell I can walk down a tunnel, let alone work in one. | ||
| Bads1 |
Crust I agree with you. This is entirely different. This guys lungs have the capacity to run... heavy workouts,Etc,Etc. Sorry I just don't or can't seem to agree with this. | ||
| Buellbob |
It seems alot of you are assuming his pension is paid out of taxpayer money. How do you know this? The city workers and police and firefighters in our city pay what is called super annuation which is a very monetarily large contribution to the pension plan, but the pay off is retirement as early as 50 yrs. with a very good pension. This kind of attitude is a disservice to firefighters and police. I have friends in both depts. and it is stressful, physically and mentally draining, they see people die and colleagues die. How can anyone bad mouth them? | ||
| Blake |
Crusty, did you have competent legal council? It seems not. That's an outrage. | ||
| Hootowl |
I've donned the gear. Wear an FFE in the hangar bay of an aircraft carrier in the Persian Gulf in August for six hours at a time and then come talk to me. Froggy: Can he live on 75K on NY? Probably not. Point is, he isn't. He's got another job. 75K for the rest of his life seems excessive for 12 years of service. We don't pay our service members nearly that much, and those who do get that kind of a percentage are often missing limbs. A firefighter than can still work as a boxer is not disabled in any meaningful sense of the word. If he was unable to earn a living due to an on the job injury, I'd have no problem with that kind of compensation package. Doesn't matter though, I don't live in NY, and I'm not paying for it. | ||
| Strokizator |
How can anyone bad mouth them? If they commit a crime (fraud) then it doesn't matter what they do the other 99% of the time. The fact still remains that in some locales far more firefighters retire on disability than don't. And, btw, their pensions AND salaries are indeed paid out of taxpayer money no matter how you slice it. Finally, fire fighting is not in the top 10 of most dangerous professions in America (police/sheriff does come in @ #10) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If indeed he tried to stay on but was forced to retire, I can sympathize. If what actually happened was that he instigated his disability retirement or just went along with it, then it is shady at worst or just plain laziness by his employer. I think that more facts are needed. Bottom line for me is that it's just another example of extravagant public employee benefits. If any deserve them, it's the guys who dive into fire for a living. It sure seems odd that the the department couldn't find another job for the man. I just don't like the idea of paying someone to not work. It is the wrong approach. Find the man some work that he can do! He's obviously capable. I don't know how his policy works, but I know MANY employers have disability contracts that will continue to pay regardless of whether you are working or not simply because you aren't able to do the job you were originally hired for. Many pay less if you are employed but still not able to your regular job. I didn't see from this whether or not he was employed or not just that he was doing MMA. $75,000 in NYC isn't that much. That said, disability payments can be sent anywhere. | ||
| Whatever |
So if a person were hospitalized 30+ times over a period of 20 years and has to take 500$ of medication a month and get medical services totaling at least $200 a month to function at a "normal level", or else they remain completely incapacitated and need to be hospitalized, and the condition is permanent, does that mean they are not disabled? Although I can't say what this guy's deal is... sometimes disabled people can function at a very high level for short periods of time and can't function at all for short periods of time. If this were the case 50/50% of the time... how could you predict the unpredictable and go work at "normal capacity" on a regular basis to actually even hold ANY job. He obviously needs to go under medical review again... but really, whether he meets the requirements of the disability insurance provider is for the doctors and the underwriters to decide. Like in Crusty's case... things are rarely as they appear to be. |
