| Author |
Message |
    
Whatever
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 07:21 pm: | 
|
Also, as someone who has passed OSHA annual medical evaluation for 8+ years for use of an SCBA under HAZWOPER regulations, there are any number of things that can go wrong where you can be disqualified.
That lung capacity blow meter thing is only one of them.
Toxic levels of toxics that have built up in your systems over a period of time where you are pre-disposed to cancer risk above the acceptable levels laid out by the regulatory agencies is another one of them.
Let's say for example, you are only alllowed to be exposed to xx ppm of Lead by inhalation over a period of a LIFETIME... if I were exposed to > than that amount within a 9 month period of working at Ground Zero, as indicated by air monitoring and time exposures recorded during this 9 month period... guess what... game over end of job.
The reasonable expectation of future exposure to lead from lead based paints may be enough for the review board to consider an individual disabled and not allowed to do thier job any more because the POTENTIAL RISK OF CANCER is over the accepatable limits set forth by OSHA under the law.
Given the conditions at the time of his disability retirement, it may be a final ruling. You do not know. It is a very complicated system. The review board may have retired him because they did not want to run the risk of being sued if he later developed lung cancer.
(Message edited by Whatever on September 01, 2011) |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 07:45 pm: |
|
In my opinion, I don't think it's a question of whether this person's disability is "real" or not.
The payments he receives constitute "dead money" regardless of whether it's a payment from the NYC's coffers or from an insurance company's. He evidently qualified under the guidelines of the policies and definitions of the plan he was under.
Every disability is different. Repeated hospitalizations with medication and severe periods of incapacity would seem to indicate a disability. The question is whether or not that person were covered by a contract that provided aid for that disability.
If I run my car into a brick wall, there is very little question as to whether or not there is damage. The question is whether or not I qualify for relief under an insurance contract that covers damage to my automobile.
You KNOW I'd be one of the first to yell and scream about government waste, fraud, or unreasonable collective bargaining arrangements. On this front based upon the data presented, I don't feel that there is fraud or abuse.
Now if this guy slipped each of the examiners $100 to find in his favor......
BTW, there is a 1 in 7 chance that each person will suffer a work stopping disability for 1 year or longer. Given the option between a company pay check and one that includes protection in the event of disability, pick the one with the income protection. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 10:12 pm: |
|
Bad yeah that's about what I figured |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 01:56 pm: |
|
I don't dispute that he may be incapable of performing his former job. My gripe is that instead of just handing the guy a bunch of money, he should simply be placed in another job. I just don't like the mentality of entitlement fostered by government. This is a pretty good example. I couldn't look my taxpaying fellow citizens in the face knowing that I was taking their money in exchange for no work. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 02:05 pm: |
|
Blake that would def seem like the more palatable and productive solution.
i don't think that any of us know the full details of this guys case nor should we as it is private medical information. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 02:07 pm: |
|
I couldn't look my taxpaying fellow citizens in the face knowing that I was taking their money in exchange for no work.
Even if you promised them front row tickets to your next up coming professional fight.LOL |
Bads1
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 02:10 pm: |
|
i don't think that any of us know the full details of this guys case nor should we as it is private medical information.
But its grabbing national attention isn't it. Along with a LT. thats running Marathons and getting 86,000 a year. |
Davegess
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 02:41 pm: |
|
If you have a Long Term disability insurance policy, which many of us have provided by our employers the benefit has been bought and paid for. And the idea that you can just give them something else to do; how do you do that? I mostly use my brain for work, I get whacked in the head and can't think straight what job are you gonna give me? Make me stand on an assembly line and do manual labor? I wouldn't last a week at my age. Make me clean toilets?
Besides any job you would make this disabled person do would be one less job for someone else. The whole point of LT disability insurance is that you are protected to a certain extent from the fickle finger of fate. It so far from entitlement that i can't believe anyone is bringing it up.
Don't most of you have LT disability at work? If you can't do your job because of accident or health are you not covered? Especially if you are injured on the job? I have been paying, both directly and indirectly for LT disability insurance for 40 years. I am not gonna feel like a freeloader if, god forbid, I ever need to collect. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 02:47 pm: |
|
That's a great point Dave. Is he collecting disability insurance? Because the article made it seem like he was medically retired, and was collecting disability pension, not insurance. If it's insurance, and he or his employer was paying for it, he is certainly entitled to it. |
Strokizator
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 03:01 pm: |
|
Dave, if you whack your head and go on disability that's one thing. If six months later you're entering chess competitions then they have a right to question the extent of your disability. On the surface it would look like you're not disabled at all.
It appears that the threshold for qualifying for disability on govt jobs is about the same for getting a handicap placard for your car. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 03:01 pm: |
|
Agreed Dave. More than likely the NYC LTD plan is self funded, but it would still be "insurance" just not using an outside third party carrier to cover the risk.
If I went on claim and qualified for benefits that I paid for, I wouldn't hesitate to collect on them.
Do people feel guilty or like a freeloader when the insurance company cuts them a check for a wrecked car? |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 03:09 pm: |
|
Such extravagant long term disability is surprising.
Jeremy, good point, and likely the case on account of i it were an insurance company providing the coverage, he'd likely not be collecting at this point.
Dave,
The man is competing in MMA, one of THE most physically and mentally demanding sports on the planet, including endurance. Your example is not comparable as I see it. The man obviously has significant physical stamina and ability. On the surface, it sure looks like he ought to be doing something to earn taxpayer money.
Pay to train him, whatever, but just handing out money for someone to do nothing is ludicrous. |
Etennuly
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 03:42 pm: |
|
I can see how he could be suffering a debilitating respiratory problem that would keep him from his job and still be able to do his sporting game.
I have personally been accidentally over-exposed to a couple of automotive chemicals that I must, for many years now, avoid. If I were to breath in or have these chemicals spilled on my body in very small quantities I can become violently ill very quickly. No one can see this in my daily routine. It cannot be seen when I ride my Buell or play with my grandchildren. No one can see it as I work in my shop.
If I had a good insurance policy in the shop where it happened I would likely be in his position. My HMO at the time was not so good. But in order to return to a shop that requires exposure to those particular elements I would be physically, medically disqualified and I can easily prove the disability.
If that were the case and I qualified to collect a disability pension because I cannot return to my profession.....would I feel the need to spend the rest of my life ducking people like you and this report about the reality of my disability simply because I am not in a wheel chair or bent over a cane or have obvious missing body parts, or am bedridden?
If he can breathe air, and lots of air to do physical things, who outside him and his doctors are to say if he sucked in a small amount of toxic air(that would not bother you and me) he would not double over in pain or suffer an inability to breathe?
Like Ft_b has stated, unless he faked a lot of tests......Book.....Cover.....Judgement. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 03:56 pm: |
|
In any event he could have a promising career as a bouncer. Char you loved Road House did'nt you ? |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 04:07 pm: |
|
Cases of MCS are rare ( multiple chemical sensitivity )
The majority of these cases are filed not by industrial and or work places such as Verns. They are from office workers that sniff the white out and or the new paint and carpet. Hence the popularity of low VOC interior finishes. It was amazing once the MOLD IS GOLD insurance coverage was gone and the junk science was reined in the IAQ lawsuits dropped to 5% of what they had been. Now we see cases to solve the issues rather than on Getting the big pay out |
Bads1
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 04:50 pm: |
|
Thev training the guy goes through is just intense. I just can't see how his lungs could be bad. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 09:39 am: |
|
You have to look at it from a toxological and legal standpoint. It is all about exposure to toxins. There are LIFETIME limits in place by the law under OSHA. I can look them up if you want.
Do you really think he should be washing and waxing fire trucks for $100,000 per year? Do you know how many poeple would bitch and moan about that? There would probably be protesters outside the firehouse.
SOMEONE, wether it be OSHA or NY State or NY City or County authorities f-ed up big time and dropped the ball on ensuring the proper respiratory protection was used down at Ground Zero.
Someone who was in charge, did not err on the side of caution, which all legally enforceable Health and Safety laws are set up to do. They are meant to over-protect in these cases to err on the side of caution.
If this guy was not told to wear an SCBA or have an air line supply connected (which was probably technically infeasible because of all the sharp surfaces) to crawl through very tight spaces where he was breathing chemicals that could permanently affect him above the legal limits IN ORDER to try and save lives... don't you think whoever was supposed to ensure the safety of the fireman should get thier pants sued off of them?
Let's say the guy won a 20 Million dollar settlement for negligence by his command... even if he was retired for a good 30 years before he croaked... the 75K a year is a bargain for the department. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 12:51 pm: |
|
In Switzerland, just over the border, if you become unable to do your job, you have to go for an assessment to see what work you are capable of doing.
Payment of benefit is then based on how much you would lose between the two jobs.
For example if I were unable to drive trucks due to having lost my legs in an accident, but I was still able to operate a phone & computer, they'd find me a job in a wheelchair accessible office & I'd receive benefit to make up the difference, & if I got promoted & had a pay raise to a level that equalled or exceeded what I'd have got previously I'd lose the benefit.
One of my Buell riding buds here is an assessor. |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 01:28 pm: |
|
Char,
>>> Do you really think he should be washing and waxing fire trucks for $100,000 per year?
As opposed to doing nothing and being handed money for it? YES! |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 01:39 pm: |
|
INnes,
The Swiss seem to have a fair system concerning worker's disability. Why such incredibly obvious logic is beyond the reach of government here is bewildering. But of course it really isn't beyond their reach. We just have hordes of public employees who are served by unions, which serve one particular political party, which is more interested in political power than doing what is fair and sensible for Americans.
Cities and states all over America are revenue strapped, taxpayers being unduly burdened due to unbelievably extravagant benefits provided public employees, far beyond what the average private sector job provides.
Half don't pay federal income tax, tens of millions more civilians who do are employed by government and are provided extravagant benefits.
The fix is in. The Progressives are winning. |
|
