| Author |
Message |
    
Oldog
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 08:25 am: | 
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and the fed govt is using no discretion.
that is becoming an all too recurring thing in this country.
so Gibson is being harassed, perhaps some investigation of the enforcement agency is in order..
removal of the instigators, some thing seems to smell of $hit...}
Oh is this federal Job creation..
what are we spending for this enforcement? |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:21 am: |
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Rosewood grips. There are lots of pistols with them. How convenient.
G |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 11:27 am: |
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the purges started with censureship
then discrediting intellectually,
then moved to property,
then to assets of production,
then to imprisonment
then to the killings.
Should sound familiar - Its Lenin 1918-1925 ;
That next mile marker up ahead is not pretty. |
Strato9r
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 02:38 pm: |
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Someone has obviously been spooked by the sticker on a guitar I believe was owned by Woody Guthrie that read,
"This Guitar Kills Fascists" |
Stirz007
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 03:36 pm: |
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There's a pretty easy solution on the "guitars getting seized coming through customs" issue - too bad it will never work.
Guitars have serial numbers - Gibson, Fender, Martin, all can trace year of manufacture from serial number. Seems like if Customs was really interested in 'serving' the taxpayer, they'd have copies of said serial number lists. Pre-Lacey, come on in.... Post-Lacey, we need to take a look at that a little closer...(but that's too easy). Something about the burden of proof being on the accuser got lost somewhere..... |
Glitch
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 07:37 pm: |
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http://hotair.com/archives/2011/08/29/michelle-oba mas-gibson-guitar-gift/ |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, August 29, 2011 - 10:32 pm: |
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Just think . . . .when Gibson moves from Memphis, TN and Bozeman, MT to Shanghai . . . we can merge this thread with the "Made in America" thread. |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 12:32 am: |
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Okay so maybe the rosewood hint was a little too subtle.
This little story might help.
Fish and Game:
Ma'am we're from Fish and Game. We're here to execute a search warrant. May we come in?
Her:
I suppose. What is this about?
F&G:
Your son purchased a Gibson guitar.
Her:
Yes he did. He saved for two years so he could buy it. Whats wrong with that?
F&G:
It could be made from illegally obtained wood.
Her:
He's not home right now but its in his room. I'll go get it.
F&G:
Hold on ma'am. That piano over there looks like it has ivory keys. Where did you get it?
Her:
Its a family heirloom.
F&G:
Do you have documentation for it?
Her:
It's been in the family for five generations but no I don't have a sales receipt.
F&G:
What about that grandfather clock? That's made from some some pretty exotic woods.
Her:
It was a wedding gift from my grandmother.
F&G:
Documentation?
Her:
Uh...no.
F&G:
I see someone is a gun collector. Looks like some pretty exotic wood maybe some ivory inlays in those gun cases.
Her:
Yes, my husband is quite pleased with his collection.
I'll go get that guitar now so you can look at it.
You're not going to confiscate it are you?
My son would be really upset.
F&G:
Ma'am we'll be confiscating a lot more than that unless you can come up with some paperwork.
Her:
But I thought the warrant was for a Gibson guitar?
F&G:
No ma'am the warrant is for material illegal under the Lacey Act and those things are all in plain sight.
Now does the rosewood thing make more sense?
G |
Trojan
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 08:35 am: |
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Nothing new or even newsworthy here except that Gibson are seemingly ignoring long standing and established worldwide bans on trading certain hardwoods/ivory/corals etc.
Most guitar makers/luthiers have stocks of 'old' timber that they use for making new guitars or repairing old ones. These woods are all inspected and approved for use (certainly here in the UK/EU). I know of at least one luthier who uses old antique furniture as a source of tone woods!
Other sources can be sustainable forestry but they are unlikely to grow the kind of hardwoods that guitar makers lust after unfortunately. This is why we are seeing a big increase in composite guitars and in the use of less exotic tonewoods now.
Fender and the other top end guitar manufacturers don't seem to have a problem with this so why is Gibson finding it so hard?
If you have a vintage guitar and can prove its authenticity (which is pretty easy to do in most cases) there should be no problem, in exactly the same way that other antiques made from currently 'banned' materials are traded/moved now. |
Barker
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 01:31 pm: |
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A fellow badwebber and a couple of my colleges were at the Gibson factory when was busted.
I heard alot of second hand info, but from what I know, I would be surprised if Gibson actually gets convicted.
They have been raided for the same reason in the past. They are very aware how to legally obtain materials. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 03:10 pm: |
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>>> Nothing new or even newsworthy here except that Gibson are seemingly ignoring long standing and established worldwide bans on trading certain hardwoods/ivory/corals etc.
Any evidence to back that up? I'm not seeing any. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 04:33 pm: |
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Having lived in the far east for years my entire home is furnished with hand carved rose wood furniture come on guys lets vote these bastards out of office before I have to move out to my barn. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 04:50 pm: |
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conspiracy rumor is that Gibson CEO contributed to Republican candidates in his districts, where as his competitor... that uses the same woods, is a demo supporter.
whipppe Hope and Change - smells just like Lenin from 100 years ago. |
Blake
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 04:55 pm: |
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I prefer curly maple and mesquite wood...
A photo from the carpenter of a couple of tables that my incredible lady designed and ordered custom built. Mesquite with ebony. Nice!
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Nukeblue
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 05:04 pm: |
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city, that wouldn't surprise me. when the gov bail-out/take-over of chrysler happened and they closed a bunch of dealers down, all but one were big donators to the republican party. from what i heard through the chrysler grape vine anyhoo |
Trojan
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2011 - 05:35 am: |
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Any evidence to back that up? I'm not seeing any.
I don't have any more evidence than wehat has been written, but surely to obtain a warrant in order to enter premises and seize property the investigators must have had reasonable grounds and therefore some evidence? (I was in the police long enough to know that  )
The mere fact that this isn't the first raid on Gibson, and that PRS, Fender, Schecter et all haven't been raided at all (yet) would suggest that either Gibson is doing something wrong (knowingly or not) or that there is some conspiracy against them, which I find hard to believe.
Gibson does use more hardwood in its body construction than most other luthiers, but they all use rosewood/mahogany in some amount and surely must be aware of the international rules on its purchase and the need for paperwork/history? |
Strokizator
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 12:46 pm: |
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Here's a link to a podcast featuring the Ceo of Gibson Guitars. For those of you who don't listen to it, the bombshell in the interview is the govt's assertion that Gibson's problems would go away if they used Madagascar labor.
Cover story: http://www.kmjnow.com/pages/landing_news?Gibson-CE O-Feds-Demanded-Foreign-Labor=1&blockID=546848&fee dID=806
Podcast: http://www.kmjnow.com/common/global_audio/174/3404 8.mp3
Something smells in this story. Interesting to note that Fender has no problems even though they use the same woods. Fender is a DNC donor, not that it would have anything to do with it. |
Stirz007
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2011 - 04:19 pm: |
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Interesting Interview - thanks for posting.
Sounds like something is rotten in Denmark |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 05:43 am: |
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Interesting to note that Fender has no problems even though they use the same woods.
Using the same woods isn't the problem. It is the SOURCE of the wood that can be.
For instance, Fender have just released a line of Telecasters using old hardwood bodies taken from a bridge somewhere. So long as they have proof of the provenance etc there shouldn't be a problem. The problems occur when you have a stock of hardwood or other restricted material and don't have the paperwork to prove its history and movements.
A company the size of Gibson should have records and it isn't rocket science to keep the required proof, so if they haven't there is something wrong somewhere surely?
It wouldn't be the first time that a multi million dolar company has been caught with its pants down and I'm sure it won't be the last either. |
Jb2
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 01:02 pm: |
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To add to the notes; the Patriot Post reported today that the Feds were acting on an Indian law not a Federal law. It also reported that all of Gibson's records were up to par. The report also stated that Fender & Martin purchased wood from the very same suppliers but were Democratic contributers while Gibson has long supported Republican candidates. Isn't it all becoming way too obvious? |
Stirz007
| | Posted on Friday, September 02, 2011 - 01:46 pm: |
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Trojan - did you listen to the interview? If not, it's worth hearing...
One of the things mentioned is that Gibson filed suit, provided the paperwork and documentation, but the Gummint asked the court to stay the hearings indefinitely. So - Gibson is responding to the charges, but the Gummint won't let them have their day in court to have their side heard. This doesn't sound like "they were caught with their pants down", more like, these are bogus charges.
I'll make you a friendly wager for some frosty beverages of your or my choice, depending on outcome. If Gibson truly was "caught with their pants down" - I buy. If Gummint drops the case, or Gibson is found innocent, you buy. (The Gummint will drop the case before they would allow Gibson to prove innocence - that would be my expectation of final outcome - and it wouldn't be the first time stuff like this has happened)
JM |
Xdigitalx
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 07:51 pm: |
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Shoulda never sold my Steinberger L2 bass. I like my Fender deluxe but not as much as my old steiny. I miss it. There was more news about the raid today on the greatest news channel in the world.
I guess my next bass will be a Synapse.. maybe with a gallien krueger rig. |
Strokizator
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 01:08 pm: |
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Another story related to Gibson Guitars. Our local radio station is sponsoring a "Great American Guitar Jam" on 9/23. They hope to fill the SaveMart Center (cap near 15000) with owners of Gibson guitars to send a peaceful message that the govt's actions are BS.
To that end, Gibson has donated a Les Paul Professional to be auctioned off. I'm not sure of the details but you can check it out on facebook. In any case, it should be an interesting event.
http://www.facebook.com/pages/The-KMJ-Gibson-Great -American-Guitar-Jam/269562453071796 |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 02:25 pm: |
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Interesting article on this fiasco from CNN's website:
http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/02/smallbusiness/gibs on_guitar/index.htm |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, September 08, 2011 - 03:41 pm: |
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this will end like the pot plant farm did... except Gibson wont get its wood back.
Time for plow shares into muskets.
Gold is nice - LEAD is better.
You say you want a revolution..... be very careful what you wish for Gore. |
