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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting, 130M households time an average of 40 bulbs times 0.005 grams of Mercury per bulb results in 57,200 LBs of mercury or 28.6 tons from compact fluorescent light bulbs.

The above doesn't include all the bulbs in non-residential buildings and street lights, so then maybe double it to 57.2 tons of mercury in all flourescent bulbs being used in America.

Fluorescent bulbs typically last for years and years, but being conservative/pessimistic, if they last on average for just two years the rate of mercury entering the environment would be 28.6 tons per year.

So why not just require that the bulbs are disposed of in a manner that avoids putting the mercury into the environment where it poses a hazard? Seems to simple, but I could be wrong. Put a significant deposit on the things just like soda bottles.

In 1999, the mercury emissions from coal-fired power plants in America totaled 47.8 tons/year.

Not sure what it is today.


Global Distribution of Mercury Pollution


The above coal related stats and figure from www.nescaum.org/documents/rpt031104mercury.pdf/

Interesting though dated...


quote:

Trace amounts of mercury can exist in coal and other fossil fuels. When these fuels burn, mercury vapor can be released to the atmosphere where it may drift for a year or more, spreading with air currents over vast regions of the globe. In 1995, an estimated 5,500 tons of mercury was emitted globally from both natural and human sources. Coal-fired power plants in the United States contributed less than 1 percent of the total.

from http://www.fossil.energy.gov/programs/powersystems/pollutioncontrols/overview_mercurycontrols.html




So coal no longer an issue in America, but what about in China?


quote:

Published: Wednesday, 16 Mar 2011

U.S. environmental regulators on Wednesday issued draft rules that would force coal-fired power plants to reduce emissions of mercury, a move that could ensure continued reliance on power from natural gas and nuclear energy.

The Environmental Protection Agency said the rules give power plants four years to meet the standards and, once fully implemented, will prevent 91 percent of mercury in coal from being released into the air.


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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>> Wonder why it isn't working.

But it is working for all the cloward-piven proponents.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Could it be that the imposition of CF bulb use is politically motivated more than environmentally protective?

When the negative of the bulbs outweighs the positives of the bulb from an environmental standpoint, shouldn't someone who's interest is in "protecting human health and the environment" have said something?
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Two_seasons
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:47 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Ft_bstrd:

Follow the $$$$$$$

You'll see GE all over it.
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Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 01:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wait CF light bulbs do use less energy
but it would be great to have a manner of disposal besides the trash can in the kitchen

no one raises he'll about all of the cordless tool batteries, if the nation goes to Hybred cars where do all of the non recyclable metals go?

coal plant emmissions can be cleaned up a lot.

reasonable rules and enforcement work
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Joe Sixpack will dispose of the CF bulbs the same way that the incandescent bulbs were disposed of.
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Cleanup and Disposal Guidelines
For Compact Fluorescent Light Bulbs (CFLs)
June 2008

What precautions should I take when using CFLs in my home?
CFLs are made of glass and can break if dropped or roughly handled. Be careful when removing the bulb from its packaging, installing it, or replacing it. Always screw and unscrew the light bulb by its base (not the glass), and never forcefully twist the CFL into a light socket. If a CFL breaks in your home, follow the clean-up recommendations below. Used CFLs should be disposed of properly (see below).

What should I do with a CFL when it burns out?
EPA recommends that consumers take advantage of available local recycling options for compact fluorescent light bulbs. EPA is working with CFL manufacturers and major U.S. retailers to expand recycling and disposal options. Consumers can contact their local municipal solid waste agency directly, or go to www.epa.gov/bulbrecycling or www.earth911.org to identify local recycling options.

If your state or local environmental regulatory agency permits you to put used or broken CFLs in the garbage, seal the bulb in two plastic bags and put it into the outside trash, or other protected outside location, for the next normal trash collection. Never send a fluorescent light bulb or any other mercury-containing product to an incinerator.

If your ENERGY STAR qualified CFL product burns out before it should, look at the CFL base to find the manufacturer’s name. Visit the manufacturer’s web site to find the customer service contact information to inquire about a refund or replacement. Manufacturers producing ENERGY STAR qualified CFLs are required to offer at least a two-year limited warranty (covering manufacturer defects) for CFLs used at home. In the future, save your receipts to document the date of purchase.

How should I clean up a broken fluorescent bulb?
Because CFLs contain a small amount of mercury, EPA recommends the following clean-up and disposal guidelines:
1. Before Clean-up: Air Out the Room

Have people and pets leave the room, and don't let anyone walk through the breakage area on their way out.

Open a window and leave the room for 15 minutes or more.

Shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system, if you have one.

2. Clean-Up Steps for Hard Surfaces

Carefully scoop up glass fragments and powder using stiff paper or cardboard and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.

Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass pieces and powder.

Wipe the area clean with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place towels in the glass jar or plastic bag.

Do not use a vacuum or broom to clean up the broken bulb on hard surfaces.

3. Clean-up Steps for Carpeting or Rug:

Carefully pick up glass fragments and place them in a glass jar with metal lid (such as a canning jar) or in a sealed plastic bag.

Use sticky tape, such as duct tape, to pick up any remaining small glass fragments and powder.

If vacuuming is needed after all visible materials are removed, vacuum the area where the bulb was broken.

Remove the vacuum bag (or empty and wipe the canister), and put the bag or vacuum debris in a sealed plastic bag.

4. Clean-up Steps for Clothing, Bedding, etc.:

If clothing or bedding materials come in direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from inside the bulb that may stick to the fabric, the clothing or bedding should be thrown away. Do not wash such clothing or bedding because mercury fragments in the clothing may contaminate the machine and/or pollute sewage.

You can, however, wash clothing or other materials that have been exposed to the mercury vapor from a broken CFL, such as the clothing you are wearing when you cleaned up the broken CFL, as long as that clothing has not come into direct contact with the materials from the broken bulb.

If shoes come into direct contact with broken glass or mercury-containing powder from the bulb, wipe them off with damp paper towels or disposable wet wipes. Place the towels or wipes in a glass jar or plastic bag for disposal.

5. Disposal of Clean-up Materials

Immediately place all clean-up materials outdoors in a trash container or protected area for the next normal trash pickup.

Wash your hands after disposing of the jars or plastic bags containing clean-up materials.

Check with your local or state government about disposal requirements in your specific area. Some states do not allow such trash disposal. Instead, they require that broken and unbroken mercury-containing bulbs be taken to a local recycling center.

6. Future Cleaning of Carpeting or Rug: Air Out the Room During and After Vacuuming

The next several times you vacuum, shut off the central forced-air heating/air conditioning system and open a window before vacuuming.

Keep the central heating/air conditioning system shut off and the window open for at least 15 minutes after vacuuming is completed.
For more information about compact fluorescent bulbs, visit http://www.energystar.gov/cfls
For more information about compact fluorescent bulbs and mercury, visit http://www.energystar.gov/mercury

EPA is continually reviewing its clean-up and disposal recommendations for CFLs to ensure that the Agency presents the most up-to-date information for consumers and businesses.





http://www.energystar.gov/ia/products/lighting/cfl s/downloads/CFL_Cleanup_and_Disposal.pdf

It's so easy a nuclear physicist can do it!
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 03:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pretty sure Joe Sixpack ain't doing the 6 step clean up procedure.

I guess, then, the real protection is the political power base and not either human health or the environment.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 03:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LEDs are becoming less expensive. Sooner or later they'll take over as the pre-eminent light bulb product, no? I hope so.

I like the CF bulbs mainly on account of they last so darn long' I don't like having to change light bulbs all the darn time. I've had just a few poop out and we've been using them for years now. Plus the added light going from 60W incandescent bulbs to 25W CF bulbs (equivalent to 100W incandescent) is wonderful.
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Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 03:46 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Plus the added light going from 60W incandescent bulbs to 25W CF bulbs (equivalent to 100W incandescent) is wonderful.

+1

yeah mine go to the trash can, why cant say wall mart have a bin that these things go in
( in a plastic bag ) they are picked up and disposed of properly )}
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Reepicheep
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 05:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LOL. That cleanup routine reads like the warnings for happy fun ball.
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Mtjm2
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 06:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mom came home with her chemo pack today , and a hasmat bucket and clean up instructions ! I think I need a permit to do this if we have a spill !
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 06:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yeah mine go to the trash can, why cant say wall mart have a bin that these things go in
( in a plastic bag ) they are picked up and disposed of properly


I think some stores are doing this, but it's still a hassle to figure out where you can take them. I'm not sure how many stores are going to take on the liability of having quantities of hazardous waste in a public area contained in incredibly fragile glass tubes. They will either need to be carefully packed and stacked individually or they will be breaking by the dozens. I can't wait for the first lawsuit from a worker with mercury poisoning pointing the finger at a big box store.
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Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

basic cfl disposal

redneck version

sweep up // put in trash

a possible reasonable version

optional gloves and dust mask

wrap spent / broken lamp in paper towel
place wrapped lamp in zip lock bag
return to retailer who places a bin outside think mail box with no remove gate
recycler drops by and picks up the spent lamps

cost of recycling cfls is added to the price
charged by retailer


Hummmmm

BTW wally world picks up motor oil.

it can be done reasonably the added CONSUMER cost is the biggie.
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Sifo
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 07:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

New regulations on goat herders!

Seriously!!!???
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Aesquire
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 07:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

CFl's can be taken to the big box hardware stores. Home despot, etc.

I've had about half my cfl's ( GE ) die in a few months, others last a long time. LEDs are the way to go, more efficient, less mercury. But the price is still a bit high. I have LEDs in the recessed fixtures in hall and kitchen. One, over the sink, has been on for over 2 years. It's the night light for the whole floor. A newer, brighter version is being tested outside as a front porch light. 8 months and still good. Someday soon, all my cfl's will be in boxes while leds replace them.

I'm pretty sure Al Gore is full of it... but the science is not yet settled.

I'm dead sure I use less electricity in a year than Al does in a month. I also use way less fuel, but I don't begrudge Al the Prophet the armored car & SS escort. The private jets around the planet to tell me to use less fuel? Another story.

Good regulation wouldn't have cost all the American light bulb jobs and saddled us with tons of mercury. I do enjoy using less juice, though. Where is the greater good with such moral dilemma? Does the religious fear of fossil fuels and a Soylent Green hot Earth justify the birth defects? Perhaps. I'm doubting.

For some applications ( ovens for example ) old school bulbs are still a good idea. Buy a couple oven & fridge bulbs while you still can.
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Blake
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 07:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

>>> BTW wally world picks up motor oil.

Nice service. But don't get me started on the gov't required documentation. It's beyond idiotic.
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Kenm123t
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 10:23 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

So Char how those power plant closing mercury laws working out for you?
Lets see fewer coal powered plants to reduce evil mercury Good on the mercury front bad for reserve grid power. Ok better lights less power and less heat rejected into buildings GREAT.
Real world we just spent millions retooling the lighting industry off shore and for big one WE MOVED THE MERCURY AND ITS CLEAN UP TO YOUR HOME. Once again we take a safe and reliable technology destroy it. To place a toxic technology directly into consumers homes. Proving once more the Reaganism the most dangerous words you will ever hear are We're here from the goverment and we're here to help you.
Did you know region 8 of the EPA paid out millions to settle an IAQ suit in its own buidings that had serveral employees sick from pennicillums and Statchy Botris. This is the bunch that published TOOLS for Schools a IAQ guide for schools. Unfettered the EPA destroys more than the Marines. We cant chase border crossers with trucks horses etc Oh that land is Sensitive to vehicle traffic cartels use buggies trucks etc and EPA says border patrol must walk. These folks need to be in a rubber room or just shot
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Two_seasons
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 10:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

And some more regs...

http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=45722

Haven't we had enough gov't to last us the next 2,000 years already?
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Johnnymceldoo
Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2011 - 11:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Since we have member(s) here with quite a bit of environmental knowledge and background is it true the epa will be used to implement cap and trade policies that didn't make it through congress?
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Court
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 08:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I laughed, as the day these stupid "goat herding" regulations were going into effect, officially published in the Federal Register, Obama was chastising some poor farmer in Iowa telling him that most of what he heard was blown out of proportion stories.

Lying sack of shit.

I took the old fashioned approach on the light bulbs. I bought some of the CFL, tried them, saw how horribly they performed (they cast a light reminiscent of the quality of most government employees' work) and promptly tossed them as they died.

I noticed for a while that you could no longer buy incandescent bulbs in NYC and then they came on the market again.

I waited for the Home Depot coupon to appear on Sunday . . . took the old pickup to the Home Depot on Targee and made a purchase that will assure I have "real" light bulbs to last me for life. I bought an entire load of 60w, 75w, 100w and 3-way.

I figure I'll either use them or they'll be a great investment to sell on the black market.
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Xl1200r
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't see the "increased light output". Perhaps I could run a hotter bulb in there, but then you start to defeat the purpose of them in the first place.

My biggest gripe is the warm-up time. When I bought my house, the deck light out back was a CF bulb. I turn it on when I let the dog out at night and it wouldn't illuminate anything past the deck itself for like 10 minutes. I put a regular bulb in and it's much brighter and no warm up time. I notice it other places in my house (I don't have many of them) and the room just feels like a dungeon for the first few minutes.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 11:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I've got 3 out door lights with 3 bulbs a piece that go on every night. I really wanted to like the Curly Fry Lights as a way to save cash. The initial expense was pretty high to try 9 bulbs. I think I had 3 that failed right out of the box. More failed soon after. Some wouldn't light when winter got cold. I was very disappointed. The ones that did light up took a while to get up to full power (especially when cold). This didn't bother me for this application, but it can be an issue elsewhere. Most of the lights in our house just aren't on enough to worry much about the cost of electricity. When I find some affordable LED lights I'll put them in the outdoor fixtures and try them out. They should become a far superior technology. I just wish that if the government is going to pick winners and losers in technology, that they would pick the best of the options available.
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Two_seasons
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 11:53 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

These CFL's are much like our gov't.

HUGE FAIL
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Cowboy
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 11:54 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have yet to see this adm. do any thing smart yet.
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Sifo
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 12:07 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have yet to see this adm. do any thing smart yet.

Some how this made me think of Frank Zappa's You are what you is

quote:

He learned to play golf
An' he got a good score



I won't quote any more of that...
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Oldog
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

CFL lamps do require warmup,
the light output for say 26 watts is close to
a 100 watt light, so I can have higher light output, and not over heat the socket, I use them out side and accept the limitations,

when I need serious light out side I have an incandescent fixture for those situations

personally I dont trust the government for any thing, the bulbs save me a little on my electric bill and dont run as hot in the fixtures. so they work for me YMMV

The goat thing is a sad commentary on the state of government, yeah we need to thin the herd...

(Message edited by oldog on August 25, 2011)
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Reepicheep
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 01:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

LED bulbs are getting close, and I look forward to them being cost effective (and think they will be).

CFL's were a joke from day one, and show the objective bankruptcy of the EPA and the "green" movement. It removed the last shreds of trust I had in anything either of them say.
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 05:31 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if I played as much golf as he does, my score would improve too.
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Blake
Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2011 - 05:43 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I must be lucky. The first batch of CFL we bought did take a minute (not ten minutes) to get to full bright, but it wasn't a big deal since they were so much brighter and still at one fourth the power consumption, and in the Summertime that also means one fourth of the heat we have to deal with via air conditioner.

The latest batch we bought for the rent house are much quicker to get to full bright, maybe five seconds if that. The slight lag is actually kind of nice sometimes, like at night when you awake and turn on the bathroom light; you don't get blinded so much.

Home Depot now has a pretty amazing selection of different CFB "white light" hues from a cold blue to warm yellow and multiple choices in between.

Michele hated when I put the CFB up on the bathroom vanity lighting (three bulbs). She was certain she preferred the incandecents much more. So we did a test. I hid the bulbs from her view and she ended up choosing the CFBs as the best light. Too funny. : )

The only incandescents we still have are in the fridge, oven, and Michele's nightstand light that has infinitely variable intensity. Oh, and three or four desk/reading lamps that use the little halogen bulbs. Geez are those things hot! Style over economy. Italian. My burden to endure for marrying so far above myself.
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