| Author | Message | ||
     P47b |
I am in need of a service tech on the 2005 5.4 F150. Some one that I can talk to? Dealer is wanting to replace or rebuild the engine at my expense for 1 bad cam cap. (Message edited by p47b on August 15, 2011) | ||
| Mnrider |
Why not just replace the head and cam. How many miles? | ||
| Kenm123t |
it may be cheaper to do a long block with warranty than have local guy fix it. Motors seldom fail theses days and finding a good local tech that can do it is rare. No experience out there any more | ||
| P47b |
I"ll start from the beginning and give you all something to work with maybe. I bought a 2005 F150, crew cab with 95000 exactly a year ago. Before I bought the truck it had a Cam Phaser problem and asked them to replace phasers before I took it off the lot. They replaced the Chain, Tensioners,Chain Rails, Phasers, and few more odd's and ends. I have driven it 9000 miles and never had a problem with the truck. Last week I was pulling 1 1/2 tons of dirt in a trailer and when I get to the destination the check engine light flashes off and on and the engine started acting like it was running on 4 cylinders. Shut the truck off, and started it back up, and let it run for a few minutes with no problems. I didn't drive it. I let it idle. Dumped my dirt and drove it home with no problems and the weekend with no problems. Monday this week I took it to the Ford dealer and they ran a Diagnostic on it and found that one cam is clocked 5 deg. neg. on one bank and 2 deg. positive or so on the other. I asked them to clock the cams to the correct position, change the plugs and see if anything else comes up. For what reason I do not know. The mechanic took the cam caps off of the drivers side and decided that the cam caps are scored bad and the whole engine needs to be repaired. I only saw one cap and the cap looked the same to me as an engine that a friend of mines mustang that had 8000 miles on it and races it. I asked them again to clock the cams and put it back together. They put it back together without doing anything and charged me $277... Anyway, I am asking if there is anything else that might be wrong with the motor that I might need to look at that would allow the motor to run with the cams clocked the way they are? And yes I did have a vibration at 35 to 45 mph but I rarely drive at that speed very much and during acceleration it never shows. Most of the time I am driving at 65 to 70 mph. You say take it back to the dealer/mechanic and get it fixed there. I would love to but the mechanic that worked on it is out of business and no one in this area works on modular motors around here. Including the LS2 and L92 GM motors. | ||
| Mnrider |
If the engine did not have regular oil changes the fazers can stick. Even if the fazers were already replaced the oil feed area could be pluged with sludge. I would say try to get the fazers replaced and the oil feed body on the front of the head cleaned out. You don't need to remove the timing cover to do that. | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
the 5.4 3v will not run mistimed. the cams and crank sensor have to sync up for the ignition to work unless one side is 180 off or maybe both sides mistimed to the same degree. one tooth off will not start could be phasers. these engines are very picky about maintenance. for vct concerns always check oil pressure first. i've had a few come in with anywhere from 60-130k mi with low oil pressure and vct's need at least 32 psi to operate correctly. the first cam cap supplies oil from the solenoid to the phaser, if the cap is scored you are losing pressure to the phaser making it erratic. most of the time i get main bearing failure, tensioner seals, oil pump or regulator, unless they have found damage lower in the engine a head and cleaning of the passages should fix it. sorry but i personally would not buy any 04-09 ford v8 from experience in the shop. | ||
| Bandm |
You didn't post any codes, but this info is for cam timing codes with misfire. Take note of #2 1. Cam codes such as these, along with misfire codes on one bank, usually suggest either the timing chain is off by one or more teeth, or that bank has incorrect oil flow for the variable cam timing system. In the case of an engine rattle as well, it is likely either the cam phaser is damaged, or there is an oil flow problem to the phaser and tensioner. 2. Before beginning variable cam timing tests, it is important to warn your customer that variable cam timing concerns on this engine can be a very expensive repair. In many cases, the internal passages feeding the phaser or the tensioner will be plugged with debris, getting this debris out can be extremely difficult and sometimes results in the need for a new engine. Informing the customer of this possibility before extensive diagnosis and repair attempts is recommended. 3. To start diagnosis, run engine at hot idle, when the engine is running poorly backprobe a ground wire into the variable camshaft solenoids (located at the top of each valve cover) at the following wires, one at a time. Only tap the ground to the wire briefly. a. Driver's side, Violet and Light Blue wire. b. Passenger side, Dark Green and Orange wire. 4. If tapping a ground to either solenoid resolves the concern, the solenoid was stuck open. Either because of debris stuck in the solenoid, or because the solenoid itself was stuck. 5. If the concern is still present, unplug both solenoid connectors, if the engine now runs smoothly, suspect circuit faults between the solenoids and the PCM. Note, these solenoids should only be actuated off idle similar to an EGR valve. 6. If the concern is still present with the solenoids unplugged, install a lab scope with at least two channels on the cam shaft position sensors (located on the timing cover, one on each side). Install the positive leads at the following wires, install the negative lead to ground. a. Driver's side, Dark Green wire. b. Passenger side, Orange wire. 7. Now start the engine, the wave forms should be in exact sync with each other, if one wave form is even slightly out of sync with the other, either the chain has jumped, the sensor is faulty, or there is a concern with the phaser assembly. A code P0011 suggests a problem on the passenger side bank, P0021 suggests the problem is on the driver side bank. 8. To rule out a sensor problem, simply swap the sensors bank to bank, if the concern follows the sensor, replace the affected sensor. 9. If the sensor is ok, you will now have to begin determining if this is a phaser concern or a timing chain problem. 10. A phaser that is over-retarded at idle can either be hydraulic, or mechanical failure. First, swap the solenoids bank to bank, if the concern follows the solenoid, then replace the affected solenoid. 11. If the fault is still present on the same bank, then the timing cover should be removed at this point for removal and inspection of the variable cam timing components. 12. First remove the phaser and inspect for broken trigger, bent trigger, damaged return spring. Replace as necessary. While phaser is removed, inspect the phaser bolt orifice for blockage, clean and replace as necessary. 13. Next remove the solenoid valve body, inspect all orifices for blockage, clean and replace as necessary. 14. If all orifices are ok, reassemble, verify proper chain timing. Restart the engine, if the concern is still present, suspect plugged orifices as discussed in step 2. Potential Causes: Failed Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor Plugged Oil Feed Orifice Damaged Phasers Misadjusted Timing Chain Failed Timing Chain Tensioner Sticking Variable Cam Timing (VCT) Solenoid Shorted Variable Cam Timing (VCT) Solenoid Circuit | ||
| P47b |
Mnrider I am thinking what you are thinking or someone put the wrong oil in it. I'm finding out though some people who have owned the 5.4 & 4.6 that they insisted on putting 10W30 in the engine and had nothing but problems and cuss Ford for their issue. 01_turbowolf I am still thinking that it is off one tooth. I am being told that there is absolutely no way mechanic did it,,,,, well I think he did it at this time. Bandm There are no codes. Zero. I have had a flashing check engine light during the mishap a week ago. Other than that, I have had nothing. The Ford tech had nothing to say that I went to last week. He is a good friend of mine and he is stumped. I am getting with my next-door neighbor Friday and he has one person in Wichita that specializes in modular motors. He helped build up my neighbors 08 Mustang he abuses every weekend. He had to do something right. He drives it on the street every day and raced it allot over the last 2 years. | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
****5.4 3V ENGINES WILL NOT START MISTIMED*** the only way they start mistimed is 180 degrees off. if its off one single tooth the pcm will not sync the cams and crank signals and will not fire the ignition coils. and jumping a tooth will not magically fix itself. | ||
| Azxb9r |
So far all of the cam phaser issues that I have seen have been a direct result of a lack of oil changes,incorrect oil or running the engine low on oil. If the caps are scarred, there is probably more damage elsewhere. In order to offer you a warranty on the work, the shop may be covering their butts and selling you an engine. I have had times where I tried to do someone a favor by doing the bare minimum to keep the bill down, and it just comes back to bite you. If you want to try something as an experiment, run a pint of ATF in the engine for 15-20 minutes, then change the oil with 5W20 synthetic and see how it does. This will not repair scored or damaged parts, but it will help clean things up and it may "unstick" the phasers if that is what your problem is. I have had this work before on vehicles that the owner did not want to spend any money on. | ||
| P47b |
Can the cam phasers stick and not make any noise? I have heard the cam phasers that have gone bad. It sounds like a power stroke. Right now all that I can hear is the injectors firing. Nothing else other than normal engine noise. I have a 2003 Expo with 155000 miles on it now. At 97000 we had to put new rails on the timing chain. The dealer put new cam phasers on it as a just in case deal. We didn't have a warranty on it and it cost us around $1000 to get it done. We are the original owners for it. I have done all of the service. Other than the heavy stuff that the original warranty covered. I thought I knew most of what was going on with this truck. I guess Lesson learned. I'll find out friday the diagnosis. | ||
| Azxb9r |
Usually when the cam phasers stick they make an awful racket, but I suppose they could stick without making noise. I have been doing this for too long to say that something can't happen  |
