| Author | Message | ||
     Aschem |
So, I was thinking of buying a bike for the wife. Cycle is on sale for for $6,499 and Steve at Temecula Motorsports left me a voice mail stating set up and freight will be $1,760. Oh what a great deal, I think I should run over to the shop right now....not | ||
| Barker |
I'd like to see a line item estimate on that. I am Ural shopping. One dealers charges $450 for set up and freight. Thats a full side car rig from Russia to the dealer then to my house. | ||
| Jumbo_petite |
Barker Does that include the machine gun mount??? | ||
| Birdy |
I'd love to have a Gear Up but no place to store it and I was told that they only run about 65 tops, true or not I don't know but with a hack it seems reasonable. Just to give you a heads up on the deal the Ural is I looked at the hack for my KLR and the hack alone came to over 4 bills. The link fork was another grand. Then if you add in the price of a new KLR you'er over $11,000 for a single wheel driver. The Gear Up was just over $12,000 last time I looked for the dual wheel drive model. But no machine-gun...at least from the dealer, sorry.  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
the machine gun pindle mounts are available as accessory items from the fleet side of the house out of Ukraine. I will drop you a note when I am in country, I am sure I can get a line on a set. of course the pindle mount is only brackets, they will not supply the machine gun that goes with it. ....  And the freight and set up is from the local importer in Redmond, from there they go to the dealers. Pretty cool tour, ADV has a nice write up on the new St two wheeler as well. A great bunch of crazy Ivans. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I know the set-up and freight costs are real costs that are paid by the dealership. We paid the freight to have the bikes delivered to the dealership and the service department bills the sales department for the time and materials to PDI the new bikes. Most of the time we discounted the sale price for these items, but they are real costs not just something made up (at least at our dealership). | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
That is a bit steep... | ||
| Blake |
>>> I know the set-up and freight costs are real costs that are paid by the dealership. Isn't that true to some extent for most any product sold by most any retailer? You don't see a mark-up on shrubs at Home Depot for "freight, care, and watering." In my view, it's just a disingenuous way to hide the full price of a vehicle. I won't purchase any vehicle from any dealer that uses that tactic. | ||
| Greg_e |
Why not add in DMV fees and a couple other things that the dealers keep throwing on top of the price. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Isn't that true to some extent for most any product sold by most any retailer? You don't see a mark-up on shrubs at Home Depot for "freight, care, and watering." In my view, it's just a disingenuous way to hide the full price of a vehicle. I won't purchase any vehicle from any dealer that uses that tactic. I agree. The issue is that shrubs are not regulated specifically by the state requiring these costs to be broken out. The shipping costs are charged by the manufacturer as a separate cost and are not part of the item purchased by the dealership. Although to you, the buyer, these costs are lumped together, the cost to get the item to you is separate from the good being bought and is a hard item paid by the dealer. The labor cost to pay someone to uncrate, construct, and test the final product prior to it being ready for the sales floor is also a hard cost item. When Joe goes out with the fork lift, he is burning fuel. When he places the crated bike on the rear dock, it takes time. When he uncrates it, and puts it together, it takes time to do that. He is being paid an hourly wage, payroll taxes, unemployment taxes, and benefits to perform this task. The dealer has to pay these costs to bring the product to the floor. Again, WE usually didn't charge these items as a separate fee, but we didn't discount the bike as much to reflect the overall payment of these costs. For the buyer, they liked not seeing these fees on the bill of sale, but they paid them any way as part of the total price. I don't like it when you get sucker punched by these perceived "add on fees". The queston is not whether or not the payment of the $1,760 set up and shipping fees is "fair". The question is whether or not $8,259 is a fair price for the bike. If it is, what do you care whether they call it price plus set-up and shipping or bike price? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
One of the things I sell is Restroom partitions. I used to break out the cost of shipping because it would save the end user a little bit on taxes. I quit doing that because I had to many people bitching about the freight. Now I just add it all together, mark it up, round it up to the next 5 or 10 dollar increment and thats that. Everyone is happy | ||
| Rfischer |
Speaking to the Ural comments, guy up the street from my offices bot the 2-whl. drive hack rig early this spring. Has even ridden it in some late-season snow. Bike is a real bulldog, and reeeeal slow. He doesn't care, and I just have to make sure I get out on the street/road before he does.....  | ||
| Glitch |
One of the things I sell is Restroom partitions. One of the things I install is Restroom partitions! I've known you for how long?! Just goes to show, you never really know someone!  Back on topic. Back when Daves sold Buells, he broke it all down and listed everything. The list was ligit, just expensive. Some charge more than others with regards to labor. Back off topic  Here's Swordsman's Ural hack he's rockin' these days.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Now I just add it all together, mark it up, round it up to the next 5 or 10 dollar increment and thats that. Everyone is happy What people don't understand is that by paying the PDI costs as a separate line item, it is excluded from sales tax. It isn't much, but if the shipping and set up is $1000 and the sales tax rate is 7%, that's $70.00 in additional taxes paid that didn't need to be. If hiding those charges in the sales price make you feel better, fine with me, but they're gonna get paid one way or the other. We were just trying to save you a little money with the state. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
We were just trying to save you a little money with the state. Yep... just try'n to do right by the customer. I had a guy call me and say "WE DON'T PAY SHIPPING!!" No problem! My mission is commission and I get paid on the total sale price of goods so that works for me! Those kinda people help me pay my mortgage and then some! | ||
| Daves |
Frt and set up are legit charges as long as they aren't marked up a bunch. There is some profit built into these charges. It is a way for the dealer to retain a little more profit on deal. Heck, I wish that long ago the idiots in the archery business hadn't started throwing in the set up of the bow for free. If I tried to charge for my time my customers would have a heart attack. I spend anywhere from about 1/2 to all the same amount of time to properly set up a bow and work with the customer to get it sighted in as it takes to do the set up of a motorcycle. Man, I should be getting 150-300 extra for that! That would make life much better! | ||
| Blake |
My point is that if a dealer is going to advertise a price, advertise the full price including freight and prep. For sure break out the freight and dealer prep on the sales sheet since as noted doing so is good for saving on sales taxes. What I hate is dealers advertising one price then tacking on the freight in prep like the author of this thread related. It just isn't honest. There is no state law mandating that shady practice. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Agreed The shiping fee is a BS tactic to dup the consumer into looking at a vehicle. You advertize under the MSRP to get them in the door and then just tack it on the back end. Actually it sounds like the American way.... | ||
| Daves |
If you advertised with everything in there, and everyone else doesn't. You would get real hungry, real fast. | ||
| Blake |
So break it out in the ad too, but be honest about how much the product is going to cost. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you advertised with everything in there, and everyone else doesn't. You would get real hungry, real fast. Yep, plus it's illegal in TN to add those charges into the total advertised price. Don't know if that's the case in TX or IA. I assume it is. Authority: T.C.A. §55-17-107. Administrative History: Original rule filed February 5, 1979; effective May 28, 1979. Repeal and new rule filed August 20, 2008; effective November 3, 2008. TN Rule 0960-1-.12 Advertising of Motor Vehicles Subsection (4) Price Advertising. (a) If the price of a motor vehicle is advertised, the advertisement: 1. Shall include in the advertised price all costs and charges and any additional fees payable by the purchaser of the vehicle advertised. 2. Shall separately describe any additional fee includable under (a)(1) of this paragraph, and state clearly and conspicuously the amount thereof. 3. Shall state the following are not included in the advertised price: (i) the cost of optional equipment selected by the purchaser; and (ii) State and local taxes, tags, registration and title fees. 4. Shall not state an advertised price which includes any trade-in allowance, downpayment, capitalized cost reduction or any funds which the consumer is expected to pay in order to reduce the cost of the vehicle to the advertised price, other than rebates from the manufacturer or distributor to all consumers. However, the use of a down payment or a capitalized cost reduction as a term of credit is acceptable. If the rebate from manufacturers or distributors to all customers is utilized in order to reduce the price, then that fact must be disclosed in the advertisement. 5. If on a new motor vehicle, shall not state that the advertised price has been discounted unless the price is discounted from the manufacturers suggested retail price (M.S.R.P.). (b) When the “suggested retail price” of a new motor vehicle is advertised by a manufacturer, distributor, factory representative, or distributor representative, that price must include all charges (other than those for optional equipment); except, however, that destination charges and sales taxes must be specifically excluded. Most people want MORE disclosure rather than less disclosure. If you want motor vehicle dealers to have the ability to hide charges in the price, petition your legislator for laws permitting less transparency in deal making. I doubt you'll get very far. Now, if you were advertised a price and then the dealer added in mud flaps, undercoating, air freshener, dealer prep, shipping, whatever, and you felt these charges were bogus, stand up, turn around, and begin walking toward the exit. You are not required to sign any deal you feel is unfair. If you believe that the charges are negotiable, ask. Negotiate. As a salesman, I got paid when vehicles leave the floor and go home with a customer. I am willing to ask, and regularly DID ask, for deals to be made including "waiving" shipping and prep charges. It may have been reflected in the price not being discounted as much, but if that's what was required to make the deal happen and it was approved by the sales manager, it happened. The over riding principal of Tom and our dealership was "find a way to make a YES". Tom is a good (scratch that a great) businessman. He knows what he has to make on every item on his sales floor. He knows when a deal is a good deal and when a deal is a bad deal. We were allowed to work to make good deals and when the deal went bad, we walked away. We had the same right the customer had, to walk away from a bad deal. | ||
| Eboos |
Freight charges are factory set and advertised. Harley lists different freight charges for trikes, touring, dyna/softail/vrod, and sportsters. Triumph has a set freight charge ($450) for all it's bikes. Setup is kind of full of crap though in my opinion. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Just looked at my sales docs from the bonneville. Bought it going into "peak season" in April. I paid msrp, freight, set up and document fees waived. The total for these 3 items woulda been $895, so yes, that dealer is out of their minds. Advertising a low price to get you in the door, then jack it back up. Kinda bait and switch to me. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
But you paid MSRP. MSRP is $7,699. If they advertised a price of $6,804 plus $895 freight, set-up, and document fees, is it still bait and switch? You got hosed for an additional 5.5% on $895. That's $49. Who got taken here? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Hey, OP, what is the MSRP of the bike you are looking at? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
That what if isn't realistic. Triumphs, especially the Bonnevilles aren't advertised that low. Quick look of Cycle Trader showed all dealers with a 200 mile radius advertising at msrp. I paid the advertised price, which is what I wanted and was willing to pay. Putting a bike on sale for a low price to get you in the door then adding on almost $1800 is bait and switch, regardless of msrp. | ||
| Blake |
Jeremy,
That law applies only to the MSRP, not any kind of sales price a dealer may advertise, nor does it say anything about dealer prep. I'm not even sure it applies to a dealer. Is a "distributor" synomymous with "dealer"? Anyway, it doesn't appear that it is illegal for a dealer to advertise a sale price inclusive of anything he might like to include. And according to...
Sounds like they are actually required to include freight and prep to me. | ||
| Blake |
>>> If you want motor vehicle dealers to have the ability to hide charges in the price, petition your legislator for laws permitting less transparency in deal making. I think you've invented a straw man there. No one, certainly not me, is arguing that all prices items be rolled into one number, just that all priced items are stated so that a total price may be understood. The TN law seems to require that. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
That law applies only to the MSRP, not any kind of sales price a dealer may advertise, nor does it say anything about dealer prep. I'm not even sure it applies to a dealer. When the “suggested retail price” of a new motor vehicle is advertised by a manufacturer, distributor, factory representative, or distributor representative, that price must include all charges (other than those for optional equipment); except, however, that destination charges and sales taxes must be specifically excluded. Sounds like they are actually required to include freight and prep to me. (b) When the “suggested retail price” of a new motor vehicle is advertised by a manufacturer, distributor, factory representative, or distributor representative, that price must include all charges (other than those for optional equipment); except, however, that destination charges and sales taxes must be specifically excluded. You can't read into it what you want it to say. You must read the entire law. Items 1 through 5 are ANDs and not ORs or MAYs. Dealer prep and shipping are separate items that MUST be specifically excluded. Yes, dealers are distributors. | ||
| Blake |
>>> it's illegal in TN to add those charges into the total advertised price. Should say... it's illegal in TN to add those charges into the total advertised "suggested retail" price. Sales prices like the thread author describes are not "suggested retail", so that wouldn't apply to his case or any other dealing with MSRP. Yes? |
