| Author | Message | ||
     Swordsman |
Love it, but those decals/graphics are ghey. I know, I know, prototype and whatnot. ~SM | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
that engine looks like a baby chevy LS1 It should. It's half of one. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Love it, but those decals/graphics are ghey. It's just a vinyl wrap over the beautiful carbon fiber below. They look even worse up close. | ||
| 007blast |
half an ls1????? please explain. | ||
| Aeholton |
Great video Ft_bstrd. Thanks for posting. I like their approach. Hope they do well. Hope I can afford one someday. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
i like that guys attitude and approach | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
half an ls1????? please explain. The KMV4 motor has been built and designed using the basic idea of the Chevy small block V8. It's been designed in partnership with Katech and Pratt and Miller who develop race engines for the Corvette and Cadillac LeMans race teams. Here is an exploded view of the motor:  It's has pushrods and hydraulic lifters like the LS1. You can look at just about any of the Katech engines and see striking limilarities.  Their goal was to take the best of the design and dependability of the V8 and build it into a motorcycle. (And not have it look like a Boss Hoss) | ||
| Blake |
Interesting interview. Some excerpts: We're trying to build a really really fun great comfortable American sport bike. Sounds like they are aiming for another Confederate type operation, small scale production of very expensive high quality bikes. That's probably a wise business model at this point. (Message edited by Blake on August 03, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Speaking of reliability Mr. Conn states that "It's really simple. It's easy. If you keep to your principles it's really pretty easy." That is kinda mind-blowing. I couldn't disagree more strongly. If that were true, then they'd be letting folks have a test ride, no caveats needed. He does seem to understand the magnitude of the work ahead though. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Riding the bikes is a matter of insurance. I asked.  I hope to be part of the 5 pre-production test fleet. Why is it mind blowing that they aren't letting the general public ride the bikes yet? They ARE letting the press ride them. Cathcart beveled the pegs on one of them. I saw it. That's pretty ballsy. | ||
| Blake |
His statement about quality/reliability is what is mind-blowing to me, not that they won't let folks ride the bikes yet. The refusal to allow test rides just seems to contradict that mind-blowing view on quality/reliability. If it indeed was so easy, then the bikes ought to be sorted and ready to ride. I also wasn't speaking of the "general public". It's a pity they can't afford insurance and yet interesting that they took the risk of allowing Cathcart and Bayly to take a ride without it.  Any other journalists ride the Motus yet? The following quote is from the author of the Motorcycle Daily article on their web site, the link posted on the first page of this thread:
"Impossible"? Huh? You'd have been happy to sign a waiver as would most anyone else looking for a test ride, no? It doesn't seem like the Motus folks are being completely honest. They let that Bayly fellow ride, yet tell a fellow journalist that to allow him to ride it is "impossible." Seems pretty clear from Cathcart's article, the Motorcycle Daily report and Conn's interview, that the bikes are not yet ready for prime time, and they are looking to protect themselves from any bad press that might result from as yet to be resolved issues. I'd respect them a lot more if they would simply be completely honest and admit that. Maybe they learned from the Buell 1125R pre-production journalist track day. There are still naysayers going around spouting about the hot foot report that was revealed during that exercise despite the fact that Buell remedied the issue almost immediately and for all production bikes. Smart thinking on their part. I'd do the same, but I'd be honest about the reason. Insurance? Not so much. | ||
| Blake |
>>> That's pretty ballsy. If they want to sell motorcycles, they gotta be willing to let folks ride them at some point. It's ballsy to even attempt what they are doing. I'd be thrilled to see them succeed, but to be honest, I'm not getting a good vibe so far. Lot's of really grand claims and some REALLY mind-blowing philosophies of design goals. I'd summarize my view on product characteristics in general as follows: Impeccable quality, High performance, Economical You can only have two of the three, and achieving any two is never going to be "easy." You can choose all top shelf components and employ/engineer top quality parts, but the integrated system as a whole will still present a near infinite number of challenges to total overall quality; failing to imagine just one possible issue can render a product otherwise endowed with impeccable quality into junk as far as the market is concerned. It's why starting out with a complex motorcycle versus a pit bike is so much more risky and difficult. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Who said they won't let folks ride them? | ||
| Blake |
They did. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Please list the motorcycle manufacturers that frequently (or ever) allow the general public to ride prototype, pre-pre-production motorcycles. Just getting to see it and SIT on it is uncommon. | ||
| Rfischer |
Any under-capitalized one that is hoping to drum up deposits for yet-to-be-built vehicles. Remember the Dreer-era Norton story? Don't know if folks got their deposits back....I think so. Then there's Fischer [no relation]. And Highland [I WAS involved]. Christini. And others over the years. I wish the Motus folks well, but am doubtful about their prospects. | ||
| Court |
NO manufacturer is going to let you ride a prototype. Has nothing to do with you or your experience. In addition to likely violating some legal restrictions (there is a reason the feds require things to be certified) they would be placing themselves at tremendous risk. I too . . . really like the looks of their bike. But the things I read give me grave doubts about their long term prospects. They have a LOT of things in the wrong order and APPEAR (I only know what I've read here) to not have a grasp of the "big picture". I'm not saying I am right . . I am saying that after 20+ years in and around the business, product development and company development that's my PERSONAL OPINION. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Court, did you watch the video. I felt a little better about their grasp of what was going on and what was needed. | ||
| Court |
I did not. I'm on the road for the next week and will. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
ft - give it up man. Apparently if its not Erik Buell starting a motorcycle company then its not going to work out right? I hope they keep up the good fight and all of this works out great, really neat bike and ideas | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
It is a very tough hill to climb for ANY company to make it onto the national stage. There are absolutely no illusions about that. I don't believe that either of these guys, given their young age, have any illusions about this either. Brian Case was the Chief Designer at Confederate Motorcycles Lee Conn started a company, MediRest, at age 23 that when he sold it, it was running between $10M and $20M in revenue. I believe Lee Conn's folks have a construction or concrete company that is also very successful. I believe Case knows what doesn't work with a motorcycle company and obviously has design talents. I believe Conn has an idea of what makes a company work. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>When is the 1190 Uly coming out? << Stop using my material. | ||
| Guell |
Apparently if its not Erik Buell starting a motorcycle company then its not going to work out right? thats the vibe others give in the motus threads. Its a sweet looking bike, i wish them the best. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
guell, exactly. Shame, huh? | ||
| Crusty |
I think they have some good ideas; but I don't see me buying one. I really like the idea of making reliability the top priority, but I see things that I don't like about the bike that will keep me away. It has a chain. After riding bikes with shaft drive and belt drive, and having converted my M2 to chain, then back to belt, there's no way in hell I want a bike with chain drive. My personal experience with chains over several decades has proven that I don't care for that level of frequent maintenance. And yes, I've used top grade sealed (O-ring and X-ring) chains. If they were to enclose the chain in an oil bath so it wouldn't require much maintenance, I might accept it; but not an exposed chain. It has two cylinders too many. I prefer the feel of a twin over any other engine configuration. I've owned and ridden singles, twins, triples and fours. I know what I prefer, and what I'll spend my money on. It's water cooled. Air cooled engines are becoming very scarce; and I know that eventually I'll be riding a water cooled motorcycle, but it's definitely not something I want. Alone, I might tolerate it, but combined with the fact that it's a four and it has a chain, it's just the exclamation point on No Thanks! Oh, and for the people who are whining because the bike is only getting a lukewarm reception here; what in the hell did you expect? This is a Buell forum, why should I give a rats ass for a bike that isn't what I want? | ||
| Rfischer |
For the record, Buell's prospects for ultimate success are also problematic. However, where it stands apart and above others who are trying, or have tried and failed, is a track record of getting product to market and doing so in some volume. That and Erik's widely respected abilities and credibility give the company access to capital that others don't have. And, make no mistake about it, success turns on finding or having very deep pockets. Engineering or design genius is not sufficient. History does not lie. | ||
| Barker |
I'm anxious to see price and dealerships. "Real genius delivers." - Steve Jobs. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Erik also has the advantage of being on the back side of 27 years. Buell didn't have any more credibility in year 1 than Motus does. | ||
| Court |
True that......and FAR fewer resources. | ||
| Court |
Deep pockets are a component. But . . . Absent the basics, witness multimillionaire John Britten and Excelsior-Henderson with >$100,000,000, no amount of money can make up for executing the basics. It's a muddy sea . . . . Money is a paddle, not the boat.. |
