| Author |
Message |
    
Two_seasons
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 08:10 pm: | 
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Any idea how much energy it takes to power a steel mill?
One blast furnace alone would require how much energy?
You'll never get that kind of power from windmills or solar. Never. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 08:35 pm: |
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Two_seasons. You have a very good point Now for my dimes worth. Why in hell cant we rain in the EPA. Alabama has a large supply of coal AND iron ore (i am told) damn get back to mining and help with the jobs problem. EPA and unions are still doing it too us. |
Just_ziptab
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:08 pm: |
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"20 minutes into the future"
5:30 PM,car charging,house AC on,supper on,TV on...I see rolling blackouts........ |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 09:26 pm: |
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That may be Twoseasons but remember we haven't really spent any money on designing an efficient wind turbine yet. Try to think if you will a 1930's flat head to a modern Vtec, it'll get there.
I love this debate every year we seem to get into it. But quietly every year we get a little more of the electrics in our lives.
I have seen it in the forklift industry used to be 85% to 15% LP to electric now 60/40 Electric to LP.
As far as wind turbines killing eagles I think the gas companies shot em |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 10:28 pm: |
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quote:5:30 PM,car charging,house AC on,supper on,TV on...I see rolling blackouts........
Why would your car be charging at 5:30 PM? The Volt is programmed that under normal conditions it will charge overnight when power is cheaper and there is less demand. I can't help your issue with the 60" plasma though. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 03, 2011 - 11:12 pm: |
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That may be Twoseasons but remember we haven't really spent any money on designing an efficient wind turbine yet. Try to think if you will a 1930's flat head to a modern Vtec, it'll get there.
Wind turbines have hundreds if not thousands of years of refinement. The generators they turn have had many decades of refinement too. Don't expect too much improvement in efficiency from here. It's just not going to happen. I'm curious what area of science you think will deliver the performance gains. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 01:03 am: |
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The battery car will fail for several reasons 1 in Fla the A/C kills the batterys quickly
2 In northern climates the temps and electric heaters kill the battery.
3. After hurricanes and before evac and no charging after lines are down.
4 This one will kill any large battery hybreds or electrics battery fires and or explosions. You think the Pinto and Chevy Pickup gas tank problems were bad.
Battery failures can kill you Apple computers are not allowed in any aircraft I pilot After throwing 2 out cessna windows On fire and for the big fun push the door open enough on a Archer 3 to get the flaming laptop out and keep it from hitting the stabalator. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 09:29 am: |
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Horse pucky if you can run a forklift for 11 hours on a battery you can run a car for 300 miles with every accessary on!!!!
If you can set up blue rhino for grills you can easily standardize a battery pack and make for shyts and giggles sunoco a dist. |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 09:42 am: |
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Apple computers are not allowed in any aircraft I pilot After throwing 2 out cessna windows On fire and for the big fun push the door open enough on a Archer 3 to get the flaming laptop out and keep it from hitting the stabalator."
I've seen Apple computers on a flight before, it was about a year ago. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:08 am: |
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Horse pucky if you can run a forklift for 11 hours on a battery you can run a car for 300 miles with every accessary on!!!!
If you can set up blue rhino for grills you can easily standardize a battery pack and make for shyts and giggles sunoco a dist.
Comparing a car and a forklift are apples and oranges. Car design strives for light weight which is in direct conflict to huge batteries made of heavy metals. Forklifts, by necessity must be very heavy to handle the heavy loads that they are designed to carry. That makes them ideal candidates for huge heavy batteries. Very different design parameters. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:33 am: |
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Just heard report on the financial news that there were only 125 Volts sold last month and that they can't "give them away" except to corporate fleets "blackmailed" into buying.
Does anyone have any source of facts?
Sounds like a lame attempt at an electric car.
I see several around NYC but all have MFG plates. |
Crackhead
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:34 am: |
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HAHA, yea Chevy strived to make a light weight Suburban.
I guess Iron blocks are lighter then lead. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:40 am: |
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I went back and reread the article. I'm more confused. It's more loaded with excuses ("the dog ate my automobile plant") than a big o "recovery" speech. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:54 am: |
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HAHA, yea Chevy strived to make a light weight Suburban.
I guess Iron blocks are lighter then lead.
I often wonder why some make it a point to look foolish on the interwebs.
Lets compare specs for a forklift vs. a Suburban.
Forklift weighs 12,020 pounds. The heaviest Suburban weighs 6,413 pounds. So the Suburban despite being a much larger vehicle than the forklift weighs about half as much. Yea, it's apples and oranges.  |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:21 pm: |
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Sifo
So what? 2 cat diesel size batteries would do the job and with no need for an engine or trans a lightwieght rear is simple stuff no radiator either.Field weakeing the drive motor and regen braking heck even adding roof solar pannels to keep a 12v control voltage for acc. is also an easy alternative.
Look I aint a tree hugger I like my V-8 trans am but like it or not and I like it electrics are well worth the investment. I like that when we get it right a car doing 2000mph will be childs play hell they make trains go faster than that.} |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:28 pm: |
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If it were that easy it would have been done already. I've been reading about the promise of electric vehicles since the 60s. I would guess that it goes back farther than that, but I learned to read in the 60s.
My only point was that comparing a forklift to a passenger vehicle is a very poor comparison. There are many, many factors that go into it being a poor comparison. Vehicle weight is just one of them. By all means though, if someone thinks that an EV suites them, jump in line to get one. I sure won't be in their way. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:43 pm: |
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a 12/85/5 batt is rated for 170A of output for 6 straight hours it is 24V and weighs 500lbs it is a palletjack batt and could easily do the job easily. That is 100% doable with an outdated scr control it would get a car 300 miles on it's ass. At 75mph you could run a car for 4 maybe 5 straight hours before the batt got low. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:49 pm: |
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quote:At 75mph you could run a car for 4 maybe 5 straight hours before the batt got low.
I respectfully disagree with you there. It takes a LOT of power to run at 75MPH even in an aerodynamic car. 30mph might be doable, but I can't see it happening on the highway. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:49 pm: |
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It is that easy for them the car companies but why would they do it? Until now there was 0 need and even now they got people saying it'll never work so why bother until there hand is forced. You ever here from Mr.Tucker after the big 3 got to him try to make something that doesn't conform go ahead. Look what our own Mr. Buell had to do with the mothership to get something going. To introduce a new product in the American market is near impossible and requires deep pockets when it comes to a motor vehicle thats for sure. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:49 pm: |
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Like I said... Jump in line to get one. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 05:51 pm: |
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Froggy 170 amps is a huge amount of power it is quite doable with gear reduction drive and field weakening even with an antiquated scr controller |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, August 04, 2011 - 10:35 pm: |
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I could build a circuit to deliver 170 amps from a AA battery... its watt (amps times volts) hours (for how long you can sustain it) that matter.
Running a car at 70mph probably takes 15 HP, which is about 12,000 watts. So to do that for an hour, you need 12,000 watt hours. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 12:32 am: |
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Brumbear,
24V * 170A = 1,680W = 2.25HP
Math no lie.
BrumbB |
86129squids
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 01:01 am: |
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Youn's working on a flux capacitor or sumthin?
 |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 08:18 am: |
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The way I figured it a 24V drive motor small 1750 rpm uses about 400 watts per hour, the 12/85/5 battery is a 24V batt with 170AH rating. thats 4080 watts or about 10 hours running time full 400 watt drain.I am not even sure my math is right it's been over 20 years since I have done this stuff. I understand there is a ton of variables but my point is with very little tweaking it's quite doable with gear reduction to up motor rpm,s to drive wheel rpms varying tire sizes there is a ton of stuff you could do to make it work. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 08:40 am: |
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So a variety of big auto companies have been working on building electrics for years now. Their engineers are having a very hard time finding a balance of things that work acceptably (Cost, weight, power, range, etc.) but others simply claim that it's easy to do. I can only surmise that the big auto companies must hire some real dufasses as engineers. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 09:28 am: |
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400 watts per hour? You couldn't even run my computer with that!
Sifo, the big thing is cost. You can easily build a pure electric that will go 400 miles on a charge and do 100mph, nobody outside Formula 1 would be able to afford it though. Batteries becoming cheaper and gas costing more is making electrics more economical. There was electric cars running around a hundred years ago, they got killed off due to high cost, limited range and cheap gas. The problem still exists today, but the difference between the two power types is less. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Friday, August 05, 2011 - 01:40 pm: |
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I used to have a pic on my phone of an old Model T-looking electric car that's at a museum in Stone Mountain, GA. Wish I could find that...
~SM |
Blake
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 12:17 pm: |
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Brumbear,
One HP is equivalent to 746 watts, so your 400 watts fork truck power output is equivalent to just over 1/2 HP. If you increase motor speed while maintaining the same drive torque at the motor, you also increase the amount of power required to drive the motor.
There is no free lunch. Relatively speaking it just doesn't take much power on average (400W) to drive a fork truck around compared to pushing a car down the highway at speed (15 HP). So you are looking at 1/2 HP for the fork truck versus 15 HP for the car, which is 30 times more for the car at highway speed. Thus your fork truck batteries would deplete in 1/30 the time, about 20 minutes according to your numbers for the fork truck (10 hrs / 30 = 1/3 hr = 20 min). |
Just_ziptab
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 08:00 pm: |
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Ever drive a 36 volt fork truck up a loading ramp?
"Who put the brakes on?" |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Monday, August 08, 2011 - 08:56 pm: |
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Not a newer one but Zip you have a point when an older machine goes up a ramp not however the new ac style it goes into scr range and the field weakening drops out and it will slow down however the truck with the load is way way way heavier than 3 suv and pallet jack sized motoe is what I am talking about not a huge sit down rider actually a lot use 2 drive motors today.
1/2 hp being used with the field weakening and gear reduction might be enough Blake. Either way I just P/U an old ford ranger pick up and I have a digital controller for a pallet jack I am working on P/U a 12/85/5 I am gonna put it together and mess with it a bit see what I can get out of it!!!! |
