| Author | Message | ||
     Reindog |
We either confront this almost intractable problem now or it will certainly destroy us later. Unfortunately, the political resolve will be to kick the can and a "compromise" will only exacerbate our problems. Sorry, but I speak reality. You can rail and wail about "the millionaires and the billionaires with their corporate jets" but that is only a fancy rap lyric meant to create class hatred. Confiscating 100% of the wealth of "those" people will not solve the immediate problem and would create an unimaginably economic disaster later. President DoNothingCryBabyBlameOthers has not presented a plan as he is NOT a leader. Shirley, even the deluded people who voted for this monstrosity in 2008 can see this even if they won't admit it in public. Our only hope has been started with the 2010 election and Conservatives refusing to Thelma and Louise us over the cliff. Paring back the Federal government to what the Constitution permits is a necessary step. It will create a temporary disruption but it will give the Private sector confidence and our economy will once again be unleashed. This is actually some pretty simple stuff, people. Charlotte: On an unrelated topic, you will probably get a sniggle out of this. I managed to drop my Uly on my driveway where I was three feet into a 1530.1 mile trip that Laurie and I took to Laguna Seca and Yosemite this week. I lost my right turn signal and FRONT braking but American Sport Bike came to the rescue. | ||
| Whatever |
In Wisconsin regulatory scientists in State jobs made 60% of what corporate employees make, and as Limited Term Employees make no benefits and re-apply every six months. So how can it be done cheaper adding in the cost of corporate middle men without shipping the work overseas ? | ||
| Whatever |
Nice to see you are still adept at dropping bikes R... Can we all look forward to hiring corporations to regulate themselves on the cheap ? The Chinese are really good at that... How is it 22 Republicans in the House voted NO on the revised Boehner plan... are they all suddenly fake republicans ? | ||
| Whatever |
Another interesting ethical issue comes up... since gov agencies are bound by law to protect the public interest in cases such as managing natural resources... how do we ensure that private corporations under contract to the gov are protecting public interest thus carrying out their 'trust responsibility' on behalf of the public ? | ||
| Whatever |
Maybe if we hire a corporation to monitor the corporation that was hired to regulate itself.... sounds expensive to me. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Government and Ethics of public intrest in the same breath? Is this the pot thread ? Obama is acting like a Kidnapper either give the treasury or Granny doesnt get her Check! The man has the thinking capacity of a sociopath. Do not start with hes was A ______ at Harvard lets see the sealed transcript before that Bravo Sierra is trotted out. He has a total hatred for the Consitution any knowledge he has is the Clifts notes Biden gave him. | ||
| Court |
>>> You can rail and wail about "the millionaires and the billionaires with their corporate jets" but that is only a fancy rap lyric meant to create class hatred. The fact that so many blindly buy into that the "Bill Gates and Warren Buffet" silliness is proof of how ill educated the electorate is. Politicians know and leverage this fact. If you took ALL the money . . . taxed at 100% and seized all the assets . . of all the folks making over $25,000,000 a year . . you'd pay about 19 hours of federal debt. >>>In Wisconsin regulatory scientists in State jobs made 60% of what corporate employees make That relates to Wisconsin. In the last 24 months the rate of pay, and nominal numbers of, federal employees has risen faster than at anytime in our history. The 3 wealthiest counties, and this is new, are now the counties bordering Washington, D.C. There was a news article several months ago and I hope I can find it . . the gist was . . . "2 years ago there was 1 middle manager at HUD making over $160,000 . . . there are now over 1,000". I, like all of us, struggle to sort the wheat from the chaff. We get stories like Michelle Obama's staff (which although big is no departure from convention) and it's tough to tell. What is telling is that the big o has taken the spending and debt accumulation curves to damn near vertical. Bush . . you are right . . . increased federal spending a LOT . . the current administration is going at FOUR TIMES the rate Bush did. Folks . . we're currently packing the powder for the round we're going to all be shot with. More distressing is the current demeanor of The President. He looks animated, mad and like a kid who just found out he lost the vote for student body president. He's the opposite of a leader. He calls names, incites and creates false images of unlikely consequences. He's like a playground wannabe bully . . he just, beyond being an eloquent speaker, ain't terribly bright and the fact that he's never managed ANYTHING is becoming more and more evident. If those revised GDP growth figures yesterday don't scare you . . . I can't imagine what will. Worse yet . . . . those are the SAME figures they bragged about less than a month ago before they knew they were wrong. The economy is not, at 0.04% growth, slowing down . . . it's stuck in the mud and dormant. This could easily turn into a situation that takes 25 years (they've cited 2024) to recover. I . . and I'm sure others . . have acted accordingly. I'm mad at no one . . at my age . . it's pointless. But I am not allowing them to derail my retirement. You wouldn't let them pilot a plane you were on . . . they've no business (said without regard to party) running the county. We deserve better leaders. | ||
| Whatever |
So if he were a real leader he would capitulate to the extreme right OR just ram through (Governator Walker style) Reid plan under emergency order ? | ||
| Doerman |
We have an unsecured debt who's interest payment amounts to 40% of our ongoing expenditure. They want to raise the debt ceiling to facilitate that 40% going higher. This is crazy. We can not afford our government any longer. The Thelma and Louise analogy is spot on. I do not expect the politicians to get it, they are paid whores - all of them. What amazes me is that, crystal clear as the solution is (stop spending like drunk sailors), that there can even be a differing opinions in the general populous about the spending rate being lunacy. We can not borrow, tax or steal to maintain it. Each US individual is burdened with a $127,000 debt (if taking the federal debt and dividing by 320M inhabitants) thanks to the fools show we call the US government. | ||
| Reindog |
We Conservatives argue why this President is incapable of doing his job. I have yet to hear ANYONE on ANY of these threads defend this President. I hear only silence which is the Modus Operendi of the Democratic Left. If what you believe is indefensible, then either change the subject or say nothing. That says a LOT about you. We cannot afford your silence anymore. If this President is so damned great, convince me. I AM listening. Creating a climate where it is no longer a crime to make money, is the ONLY path towards job creation. I am a thousand-naire with a Uly and would love to be a million-naire with an 1190. PS: My Uly fell to the right which is the path of least damage. PSS: Charlotte, you WILL get a job. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So you are saying if you fire a government regulatory scientist that the government hiring a corporation to process permits on behalf of the government will save the taxpayer money ? Maybe if they ship that job to India... that might work. But usually corporations have to pay their CEO's millions of dollars to manage the serfs. No. I'm saying that there are way too many government workers. Period. The government does too much. It has spilled WAY beyond the original intentions of the Framers. (See Article 1, Section 8) Everything else, every other responsibility is reserved for the states. (See Tenth Amendment) If you are a government scientist in an environment where government scientist positions are being eliminated due to governmental downsizing, it's time to find a different profession. It's what we in the private sector do every day. I'm in the process of doing the same my self. MY industry isn't the same as it was 15 years ago when I entered. The prospects long term don't look very good for my position over the next 25 years. I don't bemoan this fact. It's just the market place. It is up to me to adapt. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
In Wisconsin regulatory scientists in State jobs made 60% of what corporate employees make, and as Limited Term Employees make no benefits and re-apply every six months. So how can it be done cheaper adding in the cost of corporate middle men without shipping the work overseas ? As a Wisconsin job, that sounds about right. If there are regulatory scientists filling the positions needed by the state of Wisconsin to do the job Wisconsin needs done at 60% of the wage as the private sector, what's the problem? Wisconsin, as a tax collector, should be paying the minimum necessary to fill the positions and do the job mandated by the state of Wisconsin. Every penny of excess compensation and benefits comes at the cost of creating a private sector job. If I am a tax payer and my taxes are $30,000 more because the wages and benefits for the regulatory scientists in that state are 40% higher, I can't hire that one extra person I need to hire because I don't have the money to do it. If I am an individual and my taxes are $30,000 higher, I can't buy that Screaming Eagle Geezer Glide built in Wisconsin. One less bike produced means less people employed to build them. If at 60% of the wages of the private sector, the positions aren't being filled because the qualified people needed are taking positions elsewhere, then the wages get increased to 65% or 70% or 90% or 100% of the private sector. At NO TIME should wages and benefits be more than 100% of the private sector. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Another interesting ethical issue comes up... since gov agencies are bound by law to protect the public interest in cases such as managing natural resources... how do we ensure that private corporations under contract to the gov are protecting public interest thus carrying out their 'trust responsibility' on behalf of the public ? Government agencies are NOT bound by law to "protect the public interest in cases such as managing natural resources". The Federal government is tasked with 18 enumerated powers. That's it. EVERYTHING ELSE is reserved for the individual states under the Tenth Amendment. It is up to the individual states to regulate the operation of corporations within their own borders. It is not up to the Federal government. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So if he were a real leader he would capitulate to the extreme right OR just ram through (Governator Walker style) Reid plan under emergency order ? No a real leader wouldn't wait until the House of Representatives, lead by the Republicans creates and votes in 2-3 different bills while failing to put forth a SINGLE piece of legislation as an alternative. A leader wouldn't allow the head of the Senate to guarantee that ANY piece of legislation passed by the House is "dead on arrival" or guarantee that any bill that makes it through the Senate will be vetoed. A leader doesn't storm out of meetings like a baby. A leader doesn't renege on previously agreed upon terms. So now we've got a House bill killed by the Senate and a Senate bill killed by the house. Bravo leader Maobama. The House is doing exactly what it should do. It holds the purse strings as the Framers intended. It is holding the line and saying this far, no further. The current tax revenues amount to about $2.2T per year or almost $200B per month. That amount is sufficient to pay ALL Social Security, ALL Medicare, ALL veteran's benefits, and ALL the interest due with a little extra. The fear mongering of the "leader" is pathetic. The market dislikes default fears on the US debt, but it also dislikes the runaway spending going on in Washington. BOTH will kill us. Right now, the Federal budget is $3.6T. That means that we are in the hole $1.4T. To put this in perspective: The top 1% of wage earners made about $1.682T in AGI (what you are taxed on). We'd have to tax them at a rate of 83% of EVERY DOLLAR THEY MADE to pay off just one year's deficit. Next year we'd need to do the same PLUS add 7% to the deficit for projected spending increases. We'd have to confiscate 19% of 100% of all income of the top 50% of wage earners to pay off this year's deficit. The top 50% had AGI of $7.352T. In order to cover the total Federal budget, we'd have to confiscate 63.2% of every dollar of income of every tax payer above the 50% mark to fully fund the Federal budget. http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html WE DON'T HAVE A REVENUE PROBLEM. WE HAVE A SPENDING PROBLEM. | ||
| Reindog |
A community organizer doth not a leader make. This guy has NO experience and it shows. His thin skin is evident for you to see. Folks who voted for this Thing, you've been hoodwinked and you know it but won't admit it. You know your emotions overrule what you know is logical and your vote is driving us deeper into a hole. Realize your past mistakes, change and join us. I did. Otherwise, defend the indefensible so we can be educated to the errors of our logical thinking. Stossel did an excellent show tonight on the Network That Shall Not Be Named. He presented a detailed plan of how our Federal Government can achieve a surplus NOW. It is heavy on specifics but you aren't interested in that because you would rather blather about how Conservatives want people to starve. Inaction to our reckless spending will cause REAL starvation if we stay on the road that you are paving. Shame on you. Shame on you because the next generation will want to murder you on what you have foisted upon them while in your somnabulent state. Wake up from your dream state. Your Wars on Poverty have been an utter failure and you know it. Join the Conservative movement as it is your last chance. The alternative is hateful and unthinkable. | ||
| Gaesati |
I don't pretend that I completely understand the US political system because I thought that your system of elections was intended to separate executive powers from the legislature. I thought mistakenly that Obama as president was the chief executive within the law and that making laws i.e. raising the debt limit was a function of the legislature and its leaders. Is this not the case? It seemed to me that quite a number of principled republican legislators were elected to limit debt and they are attempting to do just that without compromise both within their party and in opposition to the democrats. The democrats are using their power in the house of review to limit moves to undermine programs they have initiated. It is an impasse but it seems that it is one caused by politicians acting on principle on both sides. The US is a fortunate nation that these issues can be fought out in the legislature without the blood in the streets or coups which seems to be increasingly the norm elsewhere. It is admirable albeit scary that you have so many representatives on both sides who are prepared to operate on principle no matter what the cost. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Talking to random guy today at the cafe, he say that I was working through a stack of books, (Tolstoy, in English, a dictionary, Tolstoy in Russian; notebook, pen and Tablet) and wanted to know what I was up to. Told him I was working on a paper based on Tolstoys economic/social/health issues as related to The Kreutzer Sonata had all the same elements line by line we are facing today. And that there is nothing new with the problem - and they are drumming up the same solution - Kill the Czar and his Ministers - a bit of ethnic clensing - a bout of gutting the ministries - forced state nationalization of industry and private assets - and a little Revolution 'for the good of all' He agreed to every point, even thought the Rich should hang from lampposts in DC, pity he didnt see that the 'Revolution' is failed, and already has been tried. Why the F are we so anxious to repeat the mistakes that have already been made elsewhere? That machine is warming up to a 100 celebration of the first Red Oktober Revolution - hello USSA. America is about to be the punchline to a very bad joke; So a community organizer, a host of sociologists, environmentalists, criminals and economic justice 'leaders' walked into a bar, ate their fill, stayed all nite, drank the bar dry - who paid the bill ? | ||
| Whatever |
Can't type too much on my phone... but 1. Fatty. Lookup CHMM. That is what I am working on for future jobs in industry. 2. Why is it that cutting the budget is always a great idea... then whenever DoD cuts are on the table they are never considered. Oh... nevermind, you already said they can't prove that war profiteering in Iraq was rampant... 3. Do you honestly believe that cutting corporate taxes (oxymoron) and eliminating unions will move manufacturing from China, India etc. back to the states ? | ||
| Sifo |
So if he were a real leader he would capitulate to the extreme right OR just ram through (Governator Walker style) Reid plan under emergency order ? In order for that to happen the Republicans would have to walk away from the job that they were elected, and paid to do, as the Democrats did in WI. I have little doubt that if the Republicans in Congress did as your Democrats did in WI, gone into hiding outside of their geographic area that they represent, that BO would do everything in his power to ram through everything that they could. If this were to happen who would be at fault? I would blame the Republican representatives that walked away from their responsibilities. It seems very odd to me that in WI you want to hold the representatives who actually showed up to do their jobs responsible for a lack of representation of the opposing view. I know that when I abandon my job and my employer know that I'm hiding out of state so that I can't be contacted, no one will be blamed for this but me. I wouldn't expect it to be any other way. | ||
| Sifo |
Why is it that cutting the budget is always a great idea... then whenever DoD cuts are on the table they are never considered. Our nations defense is one of the few mandates that the government is responsible for. Why is it that liberals always want to start by gutting what the government is supposed to do so that they can expand what the government is not supposed to be doing? Do you honestly believe that cutting corporate taxes (oxymoron) and eliminating unions will move manufacturing from China, India etc. back to the states ? It's not a total solution, but it is a step in the right direction. Do you really believe that high corporate taxes (yes it is an oxymoron) and unrealistically high employee costs don't lead corporations to look for ways to get out from under those high taxes and employee costs? | ||
| Court |
Cutting corporate taxes would absolutely start moving jobs back to the USA. It's not the unions, per se, but the stupid rules that evolved while it was easier to simply capitulate than to think things through. I'm sure most of America would struggle to find the wisdom in the "you get 100% when you work and 80% when you don't" clauses in UAW contracts. There were announcements this week, with unemployment still at record levels and showing no signs of moderating, that several companies will commence (>25,000 each) lay offs next week. Be mindful that many of these companies are making good money. It's simply that with an amateur at the helm no one knows what the hell is going to happen. Let's face it . . Congress doesn't know what will happen in the next 48 hours . . . if you were running a business how eager would you be to hire and commit to costs? Ain't happening. There was a time when government employees sacrificed some salary for security. Those days are gone. I work for a corporation that "looks" like a government and our pay rate is twice what I was making in the private sector, my benefits are almost embarrassing and they make retirement so sweet that it's damn tempting. But they also offer 100% security . . once you are in, you are in for life. I work with one guy who is 87 and plans on working until he dies. Apparently there was some provision in a divorce, like 30 years ago, that when he retires his wife gets 50% of his pension . . . Ditto the University . . . they have approached me about a full time gig (I'd never leave what I am doing now) and made it damn sweet. They have two slots for non-Doctoral Professors and they's pay for my Ph.D while I'm teaching. We live in a country where folks have come to expect stuff just be given to them . . . . I want my America back . . the one where we worked for things and valued them. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . if you were in my class Char . . I'm make you stay after school and write 1,000 times on the board . . . "why didn't I listen to the conservatives?"  | ||
| Whatever |
But this isn't just a partisan issue... 22 Republicans in the House voted no to Boehner's most recent plan... What should happen is the budget should be about the budget and the debt ceiling should be about paying past appropriations... If Gov Walker is a "good leader" then... well I can't argue if u think that... Recalls start in August from what I understand. | ||
| Whatever |
Court r u working for Honeywell ? I was all stoked for that job until the world wide deployable clause came up... I didn't say Eliminate the military. I think putting half of what we spend on foreign wars into actually enforcing immigration and having real homeland security and real emergency response would be a step in the right direction... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
2. Why is it that cutting the budget is always a great idea... then whenever DoD cuts are on the table they are never considered. Oh... nevermind, you already said they can't prove that war profiteering in Iraq was rampant... When the Debt is 100% or more of the GDP, very bad things happen. (See Greece) The budget is TOO big. The Federal government has overstepped it's intended power. Honestly, the ONLY large item in the Federal budget that the Federal government SHOULD be doing is the military. That said, the military could have about 40% cut from it. The problem is that if we cut 100% of the budget out for 2011 and spend nothing on the military, we would still be almost $600B short of closing the gap in the 2011 budget of $1.4T. Why is it that liberals always believe that cutting the military is the answer? 3. Do you honestly believe that cutting corporate taxes (oxymoron) and eliminating unions will move manufacturing from China, India etc. back to the states ? Absolutely. Corporations aren't tax payers. They are tax collectors. The problem is that our market system isn't closed. We have goods sold on our market that compete with domestic manufacturers. Because of the domestic taxation and regulation, corporations are forced to make cuts. One of the largest areas where cuts can be made is in employment costs. It forces outsourcing. It isn't just American corporations we are trying to encourage to return jobs to the US. It is foreign corporations we are trying to attract. Given the option for Hyundai, VW, or Toyota to choose the US or another country in which to build their plant or base their company, they will choose the country that has the most favorable tax and regulatory environment. Right now that ISN'T the US. American workers are the best trained, most productive workers ON THE PLANET. What keeps them from being employed is the tax and regulatory structures we have in this country. Companies are willing to use Chinese labor for the cost savings. Were our costs more reasonable, they would choose US workers in a heart beat! Our workers cost 40-50% more than any other country right off the bat. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Man is this a dream or is whatever saying things I agree with? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
the next big thing headed out of country is insurance, lock stock and barrel. The commercial healthcare entities (Aetna, Cigna, Unum, NYLife, USHealth) are all vesting overseas to market expansions there, only a matter of time before they off shore the corporate HQ, outsource the domestic customer service, and avoid all the rules, regulations, and requirements to the new Healthcare bill. (It happened in Washington in 96-98 When the Insurance commissioner force fed us the same program that is on the national plate) and you may think its a good idea.... until you try and get care from the new Medicaid. (ask Texas how that is working for them) The America you once knew - hasnt been for a long time, wont be for a long time coming. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm actively seeking to exit the insurance industry, and God willing I'll be out by year end. This isn't the industry I entered 15 years ago. | ||
| Sifo |
But this isn't just a partisan issue... 22 Republicans in the House voted no to Boehner's most recent plan... What should happen is the budget should be about the budget and the debt ceiling should be about paying past appropriations... If Gov Walker is a "good leader" then... well I can't argue if u think that... Recalls start in August from what I understand. You say it's not a partisan issue, but every argument you make is a partisan argument. What exactly is your point about the 22 Republicans who voted against the Boehner plan? I'm still catching up after 2 weeks away on the bike, so I don't know the details of each of the 22 and what they didn't agree with. I would guess however that these are people who were voted in on a platform of controlling our national debt and are refusing to go along with a compromise that includes raising the debt ceiling again. Why do you feel that this is worth mentioning in this discussion? Please spell it out. The issue at hand is about the lack of leadership coming from BO. WI can make up their mind about Walker. Trying to pivot the discussion to Walker will not make BO a better leader though. BO is failing miserably. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Immigration & "homeland security" (aka National Defense) are appropriately Federal responsibilities. "Emergency response" sounds suspiciously like something reserved for the States in the Tenth........ (a hurricane is NOT a threat to National Security) Emergency response is always local. As things expand beyond local control it IS appropriate for the next higher level of government to assist (i.e. County Fire/EMS/LE get overwhelmed, reach out to State resources. State resources can next reach out to neighboring States through existing compacts. Compacts overwhelmed, reach out to Federal government.) What isn't reasonable is to expect that a Federal/National government can be responsive enough to be everywhere at anytime to wipe our noses and fill our water bottle for us. Individuals need to get back into the mindset that they need to prepare themselves and family for the immediate aftermath of a major weather or environmental (i.e. earthquake) event. It's called responsibility. Community/government can help with the longer term response and recovery. Listening to a modern 911 center on any given day is depressing what Americans expect someone else to take of for them (like sending Police cruisers to every false security alarm signal, sending the F.D. to pump out someone's basement after a strong thunderstorm, or my twelve year old is uncontrollable, etc....) This is really easy in theory, the public must be weaned off the so called entitlement teat. We MUST stop expecting that Government (on every level) is our nurse maid. We must get back to the mind set that the Government is merely supposed to provide a safe environment for us to prosper, or fail on our own talents and ambitions. If help is required to lift someone up, it should be accomplished at the smallest, most local level possible. That is where to most responsive, concerned and reasonable care will be administered. Well, the theory is easy, the execution will be darned near impossible since we've "evolved" so far from our founding principles (in mind and law). |
