| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
...let's see how much dancing in the streets there is when they have caused a default... Why would we default? Plenty of money comes in each month to pay for the interest on the massive debt. ( how many millions a minute? ) Plenty to take care of actual taxpayer funded programs such as Social Security, Medicare, medicade, the 4 wars etc. Not, I admit, to run every dept. and every program that has become the recipient of the trillions of dollars of overspending practiced by the fools, knaves, and power hungry jerks in D.C. have spent your money on. They'll have to make decisions on what to spend. If there is a default, If your parents Social Security check does not come, THAT is a deliberate choice of the President and his Senate who have also made the Deliberate choice to NOT have a budget. ( I speculate so that they can spend as much as they please without losing elections. ) Both parties have "kicked the can" down the road so they didn't have to face the effects of spending hugely more than they took in. They can kick it a bit further, perhaps, but the bill must be paid, and at the current rate of overspending, the Interest on the debt will be more than tax revenues in your lifetime. No roads, bridges, cops, teachers..... just rich bankers that bribe the politicians to stay that way. Sucker. | ||
| Whatever |
So Court... You are telling me you are worth billions of dollars, own a private jet AND make millions every year ? When I can't buy groceries or medication, will you buy them for me ? Is it unreasonable for me to believe that since I have paid taxes for over twenty years that I should have a reasonable expectation that I should not starve to death or die of illness in the US in the 21st century ? | ||
| Aesquire |
You want higher taxes...for those evil rich? More revenue? End the cap on Social security taxes. Or simply raise that cap to a million? A billion? End the Earned income credit & Alternative minimum tax, and put a say, 5% minimum income tax on all. ( argue among yourselves on the morality and logic of progressive tax rates ) Work at Burger King? Minimum wage? pay at least 5%. ( plus SSI, State, Local, Sales, fees, etc. ) Work at Exxon? big bucks? pay minimum 5% ( after all deductions, loopholes, etc. ) The guy at Exxon ( just to pick on them to make some feel better ) may pay a higher percentage of US tax revenues than the Burger King guy. He may even pay a higher percentage of his own income in taxes. He won't be as hard hit by those taxes as the BK guy, just because he has more in reserve. Doesn't mean he's immune to the problems of taxation. A much larger part of his income is going to be related to paying, avoiding and preparing taxes than the BK guy. Those 3 changes would hold off the inevitable end to the Ponzi scheme that is Social Security. End the complaints that some do not pay, rich and poor. and not make a bit of difference in the long run if DC keeps spending far more than they take in. NO AMOUNT of revenue will solve that problem. Face reality. | ||
| Aesquire |
Is it unreasonable for me to believe that since I have paid taxes for over twenty years that I should have a reasonable expectation that I should not starve to death or die of illness in the US in the 21st century ? What does one have to do with the other? So, we both paid taxes. ( maybe you paid more! ) Who the hell told you that confers immortality and a life in paradise where you don't have to work to survive? Seriously? Yes, It IS unreasonable. | ||
| Hootowl |
The epitome of the entitlement mentality. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P36x8rTb3jI | ||
| Whatever |
A life in paradise at 1400 in unemployment a month and no future relief through ANY JOB ? Wow... learn something new every day !!! | ||
| Whatever |
No credit. No savings. No retirement. No home. Sounds luxurious !!! Doesn't it? I would give my left breast to still have the job that was eliminated last December. Now mind you, I miss-spoke about dying of illness... more accurate to say "treatable illness"... that becomes un-treatable because of the insurance crooks ? Really ? | ||
| Whatever |
And YES... how about a flat tax of 33% for EVERYONE... regardless of how much you make... unless of course you are unemployed or disabled. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
The wealthy already pay for peoples housing, food and medicine. At the same time business owners help pay a rising cost in benefits for the working while our reckless leaders tell them they aren't doing enough and threaten to inflate costs on energy etc. Where's the incentive to create jobs and new products in this upside down country? | ||
| Whatever |
The incentive went to Mexico with NAFTA. (Message edited by Whatever on July 26, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Court for President. Best one line summary of the problem ever.
Morally? No. I don't want anyone to starve, and will sacrifice a lot if I have a healthy way to fix it or prevent it. The problem is, in many cases, trying to "fix it" often makes it worse. You answer your own question though. If the solution to the problem of starving or dieing of illness was paying taxes to a bureaucracy, your 20 years of paying taxes would have solved it by now. Conservatives (for the most part) aren't arguing that there are not huge problems to be solved, they just (based on a few thousand years of data with constantly repeated outcomes) believe that there is no problem so bad that big government can't make it worse. (Message edited by reepicheep on July 26, 2011) | ||
| Etennuly |
In the voices of Beavis and Butthead..... Is this a political thread? hu hu hu hu. Seems like it! hu hu hu hu I was once motivated as a business owner. hu hu hu hu They took that away and now I got no mojo. hu hu hu hu. Take enough mojo away and the small businesses that get accused of supporting this country, well.....they will falter, fold, and die. That lets the bigger get bigger which is what most people vocally oppose. When will Walmart be putting in collision shops? When the independents are de-mojo'd out of business and their skilled help will go to work at minimum wage to survive. And the skill levels get dumbed down enough to match the public school's grade curves, with user friendly water based products. You know.....as soon as their sharks see a profit in a World wide chain of collision centers. Are car dealerships and Buell dealerships next to go in Walmart stores? Oh, why not? HD and most dealerships hire flunkies that screw up everything they touch anyway(from what you hear). The service won't be any worse. Could you imagine Eric having an order to place three Buells in every Walmart store? Let's say it is something like 5000 stores or so? Wally Man: "Mr Buell, can you fill the order for 15,000 new Buells and warranty parts this year? If you can we will display them in a store front room right by the bathrooms (in the front of the stores.....not like HD at the back). We can put parts and gear on a hanging display between the paint departments and fishing department(our studies show.....bla.....bla)." Wally Person:"What is that? ......sure it is a hell of an order to fill but you can do it. We are confident in you. What about payment?.....sure we guarantee you will be paid a fair profit.....well yes.....the check goes in the mail six months after each bike is sold. No Mr. Buell, that is just the way business is done." Beavis: "Don't forget now that you have to pay your parts bills, staff, subcontractors, rent, transportation, taxes, phone, electric, fuel and so on, in a timely manor." Hu hu hu hu Butthead: "But it is a big order and they always pay when they say they will(unless legal gets involved). They want to get back to their former 'buy American' slogan, at least in the U.S. So they are willing to make the order bigger.....no they won't pay sooner, but it is for 3,000 more bikes!" Hu hu hu hu And Homer Simson says "DOH!"  | ||
| Whatever |
Wonder what would happen to the economy if every American person refused to buy any product that was not manufactured by Americans? We would not be even close to this cluster... Vern, you are funny... Now I am off to sit at the pool and eat my 1400 dollars worth of bon bons... just another day in paradise here...  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Whatever, I would LOVE a flat tax of 33% for EVERYONE. Considering the bottom 47% pay nothing and actually make money from the Federal Government, I would LOVE to have a 33% flat tax. For EVERYONE. As far as your particular situation, it isn't helped by starving out the mechanism whereby you can provide for yourself. Our economic problems aren't because government has done too little. Our economic problems are because government has done too much. My financial situation is due to choices I've made. Yours is as well. | ||
| Moxnix |
After a certain point, debt becomes toxic – for a household as well as for a nation. For a nation, Professors Reinhart and Rogoff put that ‘point of no return’ at 90% of GDP. Greece, Japan, and the US – all are beyond that point. America’s gross debt is 100% of GDP. Greece has debt of 120% of GDP. And Japan is off the charts, at 229%. Reinhart and Rogoff say that once you get past 90% your GDP growth declines by 1%. Sure enough, the US used to run at about 3% annual GDP growth. Now it is down around 2%. Greece, the last time I looked, would be lucky to get any growth at all this year. And Japan, the biggest debtor of all, is actually going backwards...with negative growth. When you are in this situation, by the way...you can’t “manage” it. You can’t ignore it. You can’t turn knobs or adjust levers to make the problem go away. And you can’t grow your way out of it either...because the debt suppresses your growth. All you can do is to get out of debt...as soon as possible. Default. Go broke. Chapter 11. Chapter 7. Turn your pockets inside out and your mouth down. Let it be. Or, innovate. There is credit counseling, but our system is so bent there will be too many experts and bankers sticking their trotters into the fix-it trough. Maybe going banko is the first step in innovation. (Message edited by moxnix on July 26, 2011) | ||
| J2blue |
Hey Char, please note we are friends: $1400/month in UI? Dang, I worked my arse off for over a year for what amounted to $1000/month. That extra $400 isn't much, but at least you can spend full time on the job search. Now I'm back to work for $2000/month(NAT) as an IT worker. I am much more sympathetic to the conservative position on this debt ceiling debate. The president is trying to hold the entire country hostage while forcing our brothers and sisters who may have been more fortunate to pay the ransom. The fact is the credit card for the country is maxed out and he is responsible for getting it to that point, no matter how high the balance was when he acquired that card. Now he is pitting all of us against each other in blatant class warfare. "Hand over your paycheck or your aunt won't get her SSI check!" "Hand over your paycheck or we will starve your children's school budget!" "Hand over your paycheck or your sister won't get her UI income!" Asking the "rich" to pay more when they have already paid the most to finance political bribery(see de Tocqueville) is robbing them for a second time. And in some fantasy that might seem a Robin Hood gesture but it is not. The rich don't keep their money by spending it frivolously or hiding it; money is lost if it isn't put to work. They cannot have their "cake and eat it too". The majority of their wealth has to be put to work in the greater economy. The better their contributions to that economy perform the better that economy returns to all participants. Wealth is thus redistributed to everyone's benefit. The other form of redistribution robs the economy as a whole to take from one and give to another. It becomes a negative feedback loop. To what use will the recipient put his meager share of the loot when he knows profit will be penalized? The buck, and the credit, stops on the President's desk. there is no room to blame nor to avoid the difficult task of deciding how to divide the crumbs among the survivors. To each their rescue is their own as the "captain" has handed out all the rations and no more are left. Should he cut off the hand of the strongest to give the weaker ones a better chance? Sorry for mixing and dicing metaphors so much. Enjoy. | ||
| Aesquire |
Oh, good, I thought you were irrational about expecting paradise from the Bureaucracy. ( I sometimes can detect sarcasm ) Expecting government to be Mommy is the cause of much of this planets problems. ( many of the other problems is expecting Government to be Daddy. ) 33%? across the board? I'd accept that, but you'd have a hard time getting that passed in DC. Far too much of their power comes from granting tax loopholes for the rich and powerful. And much of their "campaign funds" are tied up in the subject. So. Flat tax @33% for all. End SSI tax cap. Good so far. I'd bet more revenue. ( could be wrong ) Are we leaving tax breaks for mortgage interest? How about savings plans for education and retirement? ( you may have none of these, but they may be a good thing ) Current plan is for Obamacare to destroy private health insurance so that the decision to let you suffer and die will be a government guy, not an evil insurance company guy. You're MORE likely to be told to "take a pill" and die with the government plan. ( ask Barry ) That's inevitable if you examine the actual numbers from a centuries experimentation with Social Medicine. The right breast is traditional for Amazons. Keeps it out of the way of the Bow string. If you are left handed with bow, then the left is proper. I'd keep them both if I were you.  ( I understand you are not serious about making an offering to the Gods to return your old job. I understand and sympathize about that. ) Good luck getting a new and better job. Go ahead and Blame Bush. I'll Blame Obama. We'll both be right, since both spent too much. | ||
| Etennuly |
So Court... You are telling me you are worth billions of dollars, own a private jet AND make millions every year ? When I can't buy groceries or medication, will you buy them for me ? Is it unreasonable for me to believe that since I have paid taxes for over twenty years that I should have a reasonable expectation that I should not starve to death or die of illness in the US in the 21st century ? No Char, you are feeling screwed because you were not successful enough to have deserved the very best. More a case of jealousy. If the wealthy had nothing at the end of their working lives you would not have a complaint. Why should they give you(or me) what they have earned? The wealthy have to stay involved in politics enough to control and maintain what they have earned. If they let things slip in a political rout they can quickly become wealthy like us and have to start over. The smart ones will have retained the knowledge to get back to the top. Part of this is what political piracy is all about. This is the key to the political empowerment and all of it's underlying theft from us as tax payers. The good long term players don't get caught, and if they do they will have stolen enough to get out of it, and the ones whom are really good at it do it publicly and having us ask for more. It has been so since well before the time of Kings and Noblemen. The Haves have, the Have-nots do not, but the Haves must continually defend having, because the Have-nots will always desire to have. Many a silver-spoon aristocrat met his demise at not defending what was given him strongly enough. Most who earn it work harder to keep it. You want what is theirs and are serious, become a pirate, run for office, find a way to win, and take what you can! | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Id like to see a clean outline of where all those stimulus dollars went. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Id like to see a clean outline of where all those stimulus dollars went. Good luck with that. They'd sooner tell you where Jimmy Hoffa is. | ||
| Moxnix |
I like the dollars that went into the coffers of European banks. Made sense to me. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
If you want to channel your anger at the wealthy why not the kennedys and entertainment figures? A hostile environment for people who put Americans to work seems counter productive. Why not tell senator kerry to quit skirting taxes on his million dollar yacht? | ||
| Etennuly |
I would be OK with a 30% flat tax that all have to pay, 28% when control is regained. And as wages go up and spending is controlled 25% would probably do. BUT ALL including corporations and politico's MUST PAY and be an actual part of the healing and maintaining process. Going to be hard to control deductions and rules on such. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Ending the lopsided progressive tax rate would better align ALL citizens in this debt debate. With nearly 50% of the population being part of the "recipient class" with ZERO LIABILITY for payment for the programs they consume, why be concerned about the tax rates the wealthy pay? I agree with Sheriff Joe. It's time for EVERYONE to have "skin in the game". | ||
| Moxnix |
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=oXvJ8UquYoo&v q=large | ||
| Whatever |
Did I chose a chronic life threatening illness ? No. Did I chose to be layed off in 2008 ? No. Did I chose to be layed off in 2010 ? No. Do I chose to live within my means ? Usually... I do share some of the blame not all of it. I did chose a 401 k I lost my a## on. Yes. And maybe if I worked harder than 400 applications in six months with twelve interviews and no offers I wouldn't be unemployed. Best choice I ever made was to not have kids. Second best to get an education... although that seems to be worth crap anymore... | ||
| Whatever |
Jim... You are a better man than I am. Pretty soon the only assets I have will be my breasts... | ||
| Dannyd |
Do all these political debates really bring anything good to Badweb? It seems like they just end up with folks getting their feelings hurt and we all should be smart enough to realize that it will change nothing in Washington. So why do we do it? | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
A little story to share. My mother-in-law (a school teacher who has no interest in politics) has a strong distaste for President Obama. She hasn't cared for him since he spoke at the Democratic Convention years ago. But after the speeches last night, she called me to tell me that she was going to vote for Obama "no matter what happens now." I asked her what changed, and she said that Boehner reminded her of one of her school children in his speech last night. She said it was clear to her which side was being unreasonable. Whether she is right or wrong, I thought it was an interesting observation with respect to the perception of those key voters who don't really follow politics until something big happens (election, economic disaster, war, etc.). Thought you guys might be interested in hearing about it. | ||
| Whatever |
Danny we do it because otherwise we feel we have no power... Which we pretty much don't anyhow... But at least arguing about it makes us think we are doing something when actually we are not. We should have a four party system and we only have two... The Rich and The Richer... Corporations are ruining America and the beauty of it is that they have manipulated the media and the government into us blaming each other. Bin Laden is in hell... but he is laughing at the US. |
