| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Indeed Mr. Obama, indeed. | ||
| Mtjm2 |
The ceiling will be raised . Dont worry !.In the mean time CRY BABY will be on his way to a BILLION dollar campaign . Pelosi wont pay back her 130,000 bar bill and Charly in NY wont pay his taxes . But one things for sure , we are all F@@KED OH and please dont bring up CRY BABY CARE , we can save that for another thread . | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
"Sure seems to me that you (and every economist you've heard on the issue) are putting it on the Republicans. I can name some economists that you AREN'T listening to." Selective reading is fun, isn't it? I'm not going to copy and paste my posts for you to read, but I hope that you aren't honestly reading my words as finger pointing at anyone. If that is what you see in my words, then there isn't really anything I can say that that won't be twisted by idealogical interpretation. P.s. I'll take you up on your offer of naming economists that don't think we are facing short term issues if the debt ceiling stays put, and long term issues if we don't cut spending. I'm not asking to be a smart ass, but am genuinely interested. | ||
| Jb2 |
Hey, I just read where the Liar in Chief is having a birthday party in Chicago the day after the debt ceiling deadline. For a measly $35,000.00 you can celebrate his 50th birthday and contribute to is campaign. Might as well since we'll all be footing the bill for his transportation, security & entourage. | ||
| Garryb |
If it were up to the GOP, as in 8 years of Bush and then McCain Palin, we would still be in a world focused on the unfunded war in Iraq and Iraq reconstruction. Much better use of our money than domestic issues! | ||
| Sifo |
but I hope that you aren't honestly reading my words as finger pointing at anyone Here's where we really disagree. I WANT to blame those that deserve it. They need to be thrown out like last weeks garbage regardless of political party. This BS of blaming it on tax breaks on corporate jets is ridiculous though, especially so soon after making that part of the "stimulus plan". How did it work out when rich yacht owners were blamed? The yacht building business pretty much went belly up along with all the jobs held by working folk. Where did John Kerry by his yacht recently? It wasn't from a US manufacturer. We made damn sure of that. It's not that we don't have short term issues if we don't raise the debt ceiling. It's that we have never (for many decades now) gotten past the short term step. Now we are exponentially increasing the rate of increases. We could put a stop to it if we really wanted to. Most of the government is nothing but pork that has to be supported by "corporate jet owners". As for a few economists that hold this view, Lou Dobbs, Charles Krauthammer, Stu Varney. | ||
| Sifo |
If it were up to the GOP, as in 8 years of Bush and then McCain Palin, we would still be in a world focused on the unfunded war in Iraq and Iraq reconstruction. Much better use of our money than domestic issues! And this was solved by adding Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, and Somalia to the countries being bombed. | ||
| Mtjm2 |
GARRY , we all agree that Bush 43 was bad . The issue know is as it was 30 years ago . SPENDING ! . The Dems have been in control for 2 1/2 years and dont have a budget plan . OH , nice bike bro}} | ||
| Garryb |
Hey, if Bush would have killed Osama 10 years ago, none of this would be happening. Osama was never in Iraq | ||
| Sifo |
No, but it's beyond question that Saddam was a big supporter of terrorists. It's a pretty difficult thing to go after a single person in a war. It also doesn't really make that much difference, in many cases, does it. How are things now that Osama is dead? We are bombing more countries than ever in my lifetime.  | ||
| Garryb |
Supporting new Democracies in the middle east, with a tiny fraction of what we spent in Iraq, including all the GI deaths casualties and disabilities, makes at least some sense to me. | ||
| Spiderman |
hmmm does bitching about cry babies make you a cry baby? These are the questions that keep philosoraptor up at night...  | ||
| Sifo |
Supporting new democracies? I haven't seen the evidence of that at all. History would tell us that's not going to happen in any of the conflicts BO has brought us into, not to mention the unconstitutional aspects of how he's doing it. If you are going to try to change the subject from where BO is failing terribly you should at least pick a new subject where is isn't failing terribly. OK, I know I just set the bar impossibly high. | ||
| Mtjm2 |
 Spidy | ||
| Sifo |
So who exactly are the economists that think we should not only raise the debt ceiling, but also either keep taxes at current levels or even raise them? | ||
| Pwnzor |
LOL @ Philosoraptor!!!!  | ||
| Xbniner |
I'm with Sifo again, I've always been against Bush's wars but I don't support Obama's either. That's when I realized he is no different than any other politician. It's also a great way to see when somebody is just following party lines. That's the kind of thinking we need to get past- this divisive us vs. them mentality. They have a different letter next to their name, they must be my enemy! Anytime you see a liberal supporting Obama's wars and denouncing Bush's you have found somebody who doesn't think independently about these things. And it's not just liberals, conservatives do it too. Everybody who is watching knows there is a problem and that what we are doing is unsustainable. Instead of always fighting against each other, let's find ways to actually make it better. Also, spidy wins this thread. | ||
| Garryb |
Thanks Mark! I know Sifo, and there is no global warming or climate change... And the war on terror is in Iraq... And the financial crisis is Obamas fault... My insurance is great, who needs health insurance reform... Why would we want to increase taxes on the incredably rich to help with the deficit... (Message edited by garryb on July 14, 2011) | ||
| Sifo |
Gary, The climate is changing all the time. The war on terror is in Iraq... And Afghanistan. What exactly are the Obama wars? Other than illegal that is. I'm not blaming the entire financial crisis on BO. It's been building for decades as has been pointed out many times in this thread. BO's "cure" is all on his shoulders though and it is the wrong cure. It wasn't long ago that liberals complained about out of control spending under GWB. I was in agreement with them on that point. Suddenly under BO spending exponentially more is supposed to be a good thing according to these same liberals. If you can't see the problem with that then you are without a doubt a full blown Kool Aid drinking liberal. | ||
| Sifo |
So a better way to look at debt is the ratio of debt to income. This is exactly what a bank looks at when qualifying you for a loan (among other things of course). Looking at a chart for the US...  This shows that during the GWB years the debt to GDP ratio was actually pretty flat. Still heading the wrong direction IMO, but not at an insane pace. Enter BO and the ratio take a drastic change which is clearly unsustainable. Again GWB spending = bad. BO spending = catastrophe. | ||
| Reindog |
Sifo, Thanks for the info. Interesting plot. Why is there such a large delta between Debt Limit/GDP ratio to Actual Debt/GDP ratio during the Depression years? By the slopes and discounting WWII, it looks like FDR 32-33 and Obama 09-10 are the winners of the Drunken Sailor award but Obama is the clear winner because the level is much higher for Cry Baby. I believe inflation is factored out because this is a ratio? Interesting to note over time: the tendency of Conservative Badwebbers is to show facts and data whereas the NotConservative Badwebbers use emotion and ignore the facts and data provided them. Democrats seem to change the subject when they have clearly lost any debate. | ||
| Reindog |
I don't blame the entire financial crisis on Cry Baby either. I also believe that the Debt ceiling should be raised but ONLY if there is a credible, immediate plan and agreement to cut spending. Cry Baby isn't helping solve problems with his Junior Executive histrionics and fear mongering. His inexperience and lack of qualifications for the job is plain for everyone to see except for the Kook-Aid drinkers. | ||
| Garryb |
I'm out of here. Sorry to hit and run again, but as an American, your tone towards the President of my country starts to offend me. Like Bush and Cheney and Libby and Rove were better? | ||
| Reindog |
You no read good. It has already been posted here many times and many ways, how taxing the upper 10% isn't going to even put a dent in the problem. It just makes class warfare adherents feel good about themselves while it actually hurts the economy. I DO believe in a tax hike. The lower 50% who pay nothing at all or who receive a tax credit, need to have skin in the game. But this is all a magic show. The politicians and the dupes who believe this class warfare crap are only going to succeed in raising the taxes of the Middle Class and brother, THAT hurts the economy. Grow up and educate yourself. We are running out of time. | ||
| Reindog |
See ya, hypocrite. PS: Nice, Buell though. (Message edited by reindog on July 14, 2011) | ||
| 01x1buell |
all i can say is that i did not vote for this ,, ummm person.  | ||
| Sifo |
Why is there such a large delta between Debt Limit/GDP ratio to Actual Debt/GDP ratio during the Depression years? That's a good question. My guess is that there was a change in how either debt or GDP is calculated by the government that hasn't been accounted for. That seems to have changed right after WWII, but it doesn't stand out as much during WWII because of the steepness of the curve. Like Bush and Cheney and Libby and Rove were better? Facts have been shown and yes they were better. Far from ideal, but far, far better. Sorry if the facts don't fall your way. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Facts and data are scary.  (Message edited by pwnzor on July 14, 2011) | ||
| Whatever |
But the cost of the Iraq war was ONLY 700 billion dollars... | ||
| 01x1buell |
ohh come on that is not much at all we have plenty of money laying around. |
