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Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2011 - 07:44 pm: | 
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we should have taken care of Saudi too, where was the home of the majority of the jihadists ?.... yep, Saudi.
Mecca/Medina leave the monuments, just make them radioactive. |
Darth_villar
| | Posted on Saturday, July 16, 2011 - 08:09 pm: |
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The effective military response is scarcely the politically correct one.
I have served in Iraq as an Infantryman, I have seen first hand what goes on there.
I am of the opinion that the best way to deal with terrorists is to reciprocate the damage they caused us at least tenfold. They don't play by the rules, we do, and we lose. It is very simple.
The current strategy may eventually work, at the cost of much money and American life. Are we afraid of what the world would say if we bombed terrorist locations and took civilians with them? Who cares. Last I checked, our duty is to our country.
Again, this is my personal opinion. And I daresay there exist some actual ground troops who differ in their opinion.
EDIT:
Slightly off topic now... Anyway, whether you are Left, Right, or somewhere in between, looking at the cold hard facts of our current spending and proposed spending should be a wake up call. It does no good blaming who and how the whole mess started. Just the same, voting for the same person who has done at the very least no good for the deficit, should be understood to be a generally bad move.
Entitlement is a funny thing. Some think they have it, and are willing to do anything necessary to keep it. Hopefully it doesn't cause the downfall of our country.
Phil
(Message edited by darth_villar on July 16, 2011)
(Message edited by darth_villar on July 16, 2011) |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 02:31 am: |
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Don't knock Globalization - they are the only ones calling me for interviews.
I am convinced that there is some sort of PAC payment going on for 'posting' a job as in see we 'created' a job; but in reality, they arent hiring for it, arent interviewing for it, and are doing nothing to follow with the candidates that apply for it.
Taleo-X is the biggest waste of time on the internet since Tetris or Facebook. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 09:04 am: |
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Char, seems to me you'r all over the place on the war here. I think your basics are correct, but blaming Haliburton..... Actually there might be something there. 
You can actually justify that Iraq was good and Afghnistan bad. Iraq had an aggressive war making dictator, secular, dishonest, that violated the cease fire. Afghanistan had religious hospitality laws making our removal of the Taliban uncool.
( never mind that they were a thug gov. with no restrictions or responsibilities. After all, Some Guy said God Said So. Perfect example of Why theocracies are BAD. The kind of guys who desire power without limits are the kind happy to execute you for blasphemy, while they tell their followers that God told them to do mass murder. The talib are the kind of folk who destroy millenia old religious statues and burn the Libraries. ( see Alexandria ) )
I'm NOT arguing btw that we were wrong to free Afghanistan from the Taliban. Screw those misogynist F&^%s who toss acid in little girls faces for going to school.
But Arguing the motivations of the Bush family is rather moot today, don't you think? I agree on the nation building part, mostly.
Afghanistan is always going to be a tribal society with the valley people trying to be in charge, and the hill people killing them. See Kurdistan. Or New Hampshire. I don't know any way to change that. Nation building is futile where only a minority of mostly city folk know what one is.
Iraq at least had a shot at being a democratic republic with freedom and all the good stuff. Completely different mix of fairly cosmopolitan folk. Pity Bush & Co. didn't do that part right at all. "nation building" and the "surge" both could work in Iraq, but not if you allow the neighbors to be the evil f&^ks they are. Iraq without Iran sending bombs and fighters in would have been a major success in about 2 years. I'd pull all the troops out of Afghanistan & Iraq through Tehran. Don't stop, just take out the theocrats and immortals. The Iranians can take care of themselves if we just take out the Mullahs and their elite citizen murdering Guard.
I'd consider "giving" the Kurds their own homeland. ( another group of mountain folk that have raided the lowlands for thousands of years, only to be hammered when a new Empire forms in the lowlands, then used as shock troops...then the Empire falls and they go back to the old ways. Wonder why Saddam hated them? It's really, really old hate )
Also, see what I mean? some people go for the glass parking lot right away.
I'd rather just do the palace to crater conversion program. Harbor terrorists? We ask nice that you stop, then when you ignore, we decapitate the leaders. ( I'm assuming the heads fall off when the palace falls on them ) Then wait for the phone call from the new leaders. It might take a few tries to get a government in crappyville that doesn't suck too much, but what do you expect? Should really cut down on civilian casualties. ( except for palace staff. Bummer for them. Also Elite Republican Guards. Should Suck to be them. )
How about Libya? We supposedly went into Libya to keep civilians alive as Gaddafi promised to kill the rebels. ( is it about....the OIL? ) We should have won that one in at least as short a time as Iraq. Way smaller and more accessible country and army. ( remember we Beat the Iraqi Army & Gov damn fast. Good job troops. After that you can Blame Bush. ) How many have died since we started bombing? How long can France keep it's planes and carrier going? ( three wars for France. )
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/06/world/europe/06f rance.html
http://rt.com/news/twisting-truth-french-media-kee p-public-dark-libya/ |
Whatever
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 11:17 am: |
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Not up on Libya yet... what I am reading right now... Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army by Jeremy Scahill.
One thing that is not commonly known to the public even to this day is HOW MUCH MONEY DID WE SPEND for "security forces" in Iraq (who, by the way, under certain circumstances never did tell the deployed commanders what the heck they were doing and have on more than one instance commanded enlisted men). That is what I want to know. Black ops money that was assigned at no disclosure to the public, apparently no Congress authorization and with no bid contracts given to constituents who ran companies that were owned by direct big money supporters of the politicians in charge.
THAT is directly related to where we are financially today as a Nation.
DIRECTLY... dare I say the main cause of the ballooning debt...
Can you honestly say that spending 700 billion dollars does not affect our debt today? That is ludicrous.
As far as Afghanistan vs. Iraq... well, where do you find the Iraqis that took down the world trade center? Where are the training camps for AQ inside Iraq (before 911)? (If they were there before we went in, please point this out to me, I will stand corrected).
How do you actually connect the dots between Saddam and the Twin Towers? If you follow the money it leads elsewhere...
Pakistan and Yemen... Sudan? Germany?
No one can answer these questions.
If you are an enlisted man or woman or a deployed reservist, shouldn't it piss you off even a little bit that certain Americans got filthy rich off both wars, on the backs of the United States Armed Forces? Shouldn't it concern us that our US government paid MORE for foreign nationals under Blackwater (etc.) contracts to go do our dirty work? I would hope so.
Where is the accountability for these actions of the past? Shouldn't we all be asking these questions?
Oh, it is a done deal... well, the last election was a done deal too, for McCain/ Palin... (sarcasm intended)...
The problem here is not money and it is not even economics, it is politics. Which always includes a gross manipulation of the facts. |
Reindog
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 01:42 pm: |
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Interesting opinion about the so called "centrist" Cry Baby.
-----------------
U.S. Too Dumb to Know Obama Is Always Right
by Michael Goodwin.
The New York Post, July 13,2011.
When President Obama started talking at his news conference Monday, I listened intently for 15 minutes or so. Then I got fidgety as his half-truths about the debt grew into full-blown whoppers. As he droned on, I did something I never did before during an Obama appearance: I turned off the TV.
Enough. He is the Man Who Won't Listen to Anybody, so why should anybody listen to him?
Tuning out and turning off the president does not fill me with gladness. He cannot be ignored.
But for now, I will leave that unhappy duty to others. I am tired of Barack Obama. There's nothing new there. His speeches are like "Groundhog Day."
His presidency is a spectacular failure, his historic mandate squandered by adherence to leftist ideology and relentless partisanship. His policies are crushing the prospects for growth and dooming the hopes of 24 million Americans who are unemployed or working part-time.
Yet he is not going to change. He listens only to his own voice, which is why he has lost virtually his entire economic team.
The biggest media myth is that he is a centrist. Oh, please. It's a theory without evidence, for there is not a single example on domestic issues where he voluntarily staked out a spot in the American middle.
Sure, on occasion, Obama will be to the right of the far, far left, but that is not the center. That just means he's not Michael Moore.
Nor is he a centrist because he'll make a deal under duress with Republicans, as he did last December. All politicians have a pragmatic streak, otherwise they couldn't get anything done in a divided government.
But Obama's default statist position remains unmolested by facts or last year's landslide that was a rebuke to his first two years. He continues to push bigger and bigger government, higher and higher taxes and more and more welfare programs.
He will compromise if he must, but he still wants what he wants and will come back for it again and again.
That's the subtext of the debt-ceiling talks and his press conference. He voted against raising the ceiling as a senator, calling the need for an increase a "failure."
Now he is not embarrassed to demand a hike of about $2.5 trillion, and more hair of the spending-and-taxing dog. He reveals his belief that your money is really the government's and it will decide how much you can keep. The only cut he is comfortable with is in the defense budget.
He says it's time to "pull off the Band-Aid" and "eat our peas." Translation: It's time for Republicans to give him everything he wants. That's his definition of being an adult and acting in the national interest.
His only concession to public will is to pretend he's got religion about the fiscal problems and wants a "big deal." What he really wants is to get through the election.
In answering a question about a poll showing that two-thirds of voters don't want the debt ceiling raised, he blew off 70 million Americans by saying they aren't paying attention.
There's a novel campaign theme: Elect me because you're too dumb to understand how smart I am.
Harry Truman ran against a "Do-Nothing" Congress. Obama is running against a "Know-Nothing" nation.
He can never be wrong. You always are, unless you agree with him.
That's the story of his presidency. That's who he is. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 02:30 pm: |
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Char, Interesting.
I'm curious how much we blew on private security firms. Sounds like an effort to hide actual military costs by outsourcing.
I thought the bulk of the massive economic screwup was due to the FM/FM corruption and deliberate theft of billions of our mortgage value. (then the massive theft of our houses as banks do fraud and lie about actually owning our homes when they already sold them in CDO's, in many cases more than once. I'm not sure how many people "own" my house. )
Could it be? gasp! there is more than one thief in more than one party?
Can you honestly say that spending 700 billion dollars does not affect our debt today? That is ludicrous.
Completely agree. Seems like Obama's crew plans to not ever have a budget they will admit to at all, that 700 billion has been spent multiple times, mostly in schemes to put it in politicians campaign chests. 4++$ trillion debt in 2 years. A Record!
How many afghans flew into the WTC? I am unaware of any Iraqis.
I am unaware of any direct connection between Saddam and 9/11. ( other than providing some travel support for AQ, but that was part of Saddams ongoing ( until we ousted him ) support for world terrorism.
Training camps? yes, want pictures? Airline fuselage training facilities, etc. Lots of money to the Palestines, etc. etc. No sign he knew about the WTC/Pentagon/Capitol? attack. His treasury dept did supply passports and paperwork for terrorists. Some of the 9/11 crew passed through Iraq, but as I said, not a specific action, but an ongoing one.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Artic les/000/000/006/550kmbzd.asp
How do you actually connect the dots between Saddam and the Twin Towers? If you follow the money it leads elsewhere...
I don't. Never did. Only leftist propagandists and idiot rightwing pundits do. ( the same bozo's that called for us to steal the Iraqi oil, btw. Left, right, bozo is bozo )
Which always includes a gross manipulation of the facts. Truth, Sister! |
Mountainstorm
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 03:41 pm: |
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444 billion so far on the useless war in Afghanistan...of course it's just a drop of water in the endless ocean of our national budget. True savings will only come when we have eliminated the middle class though taxation, reduced school teachers pay to that of a fast food counter person and broken all the unions.
/sarcasm |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Sunday, July 17, 2011 - 05:54 pm: |
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"Just the same, voting for the same person who has done at the very least no good for the deficit, should be understood to be a generally bad move."
Best point made to date in this...uh...debate.
"Any intelligent fool can make things bigger and more complex... It takes a touch of genius - and a lot of courage to move in the opposite direction."_Albert Einstein |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 12:46 am: |
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* unless you were a contract linguist called into some hole in the wall that didnt exist for a very lucrative tour of "business".
Ask yourself real carefully when the US DIVESTED themselves of Russian Linguists after the cold war wall fell..... why the hell I was involved in the 'Afghani' war.....
There is a language rouster of qualified linguists/analysts/intell that when the balloon goes up, the phone rings.
Bosnia .... 'DoD' Contractor 'Attached' to the Marine Corps... Kosovo... yep, .... Herzegovenia....yep.... Moldova...yep... Slovakia...yep
Anytime Slavics want to decimate slavic Areas in an Ethnic Clensing my phone rings, and it is rarely a uniformed event.
Maybe Georgia if this summer proves to be anything like the last.
If the US didnt have such a short sighted global policy mandated by politicians, bureaucrats, at the sway of the Media, under the thumb of whatever Political Correct PAC group is upset about what now.... the 'war' efforts would be MUCH cheaper.
Those 'security' forces are there for plausible deniability. And a divested chain of command structure with a better ROE/ROI than the US forces have. Go Look at the Return Fire protocols - I would go 'NGO' every time.
and have - many times.
I still cant believe 1) the media/govt made a stink about a SEAL clobbering a terrorist 2) that it EVER made the news. 3) that it ever went to 'trial' |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 10:37 am: |
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"no bid contracts"
Ah, that old chestnut.
They were awarded an extension to a contract that they had already been awarded though a competitive bidding process. Happens all the time, and it saves the government money. Haliburton was already doing the same job in Kuwait and had all the equipment and personnel in theater. It made complete economic sense to have them jump across into Iraq.
Who is the author of the book? You should learn about his or her political leanings and then decide how much you can take at face value. From the title, it sounds like a one-sided political hit job by someone suffering from BDS. |
Whatever
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 11:03 am: |
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BRAC started long before the current or the last administration...
I think what part of the problem is is that there is a lot the government does not want us to know. Maybe Scahill is just a writer, but I think it is our right to know what exactly was done with our tax money.
Hell, there are things I know that I am not authorized to talk about that I have worked on as a DoD contractor. Some of it is neccessary stuff. Like City said, he has some highly specialized skills that are in demand... good for him.
And, yeah I know about the federal contracting process because I did manage federal contracts, but only around 1 Million dollars, and I would do it again given the chance. Some of it is designated money based on the qualifications of the recipient and they do not need to do three bids minimum.
it isn't just about some PC shtick... it is about accountability. Most politicians do not want to be held accountable.
Anyhow, I am not going to contribute any more to this thread... surprised it hasn't devolved into immature name calling as it is... maybe the usual suspects are busy...
Off to an interview today... hopefully get the job... have to go iron a shirt... f*ckin sell myself...  |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 11:29 am: |
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Good luck, Knock them dead.
"He Nyxa, He Nepo"
May you have success and neither tar nor feather stick to you  |
Whatever
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 04:10 pm: |
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THAT could have gone better... Oh well, at least I get to ride home now... |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 05:32 pm: |
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Hootowl
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 05:33 pm: |
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There needs to be an emoticon similar to the one above, but with bugs in its teeth. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 08:24 pm: |
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but I think it is our right to know what exactly was done with our tax money.
Um, no. Some things if "the taxpayer" knew, the enemy would too. Others?
Like "Fast and Furious" where a lie is made partial truth when the Justice dept. deliberately breaks international law, ultimately a vicious attempt to destroy the U.S. Constitution and no care for how many are murdered, in 2 nations. That was with taxpayer money, wasn't it?
Though I do completely agree that Most politicians do not want to be held accountable.
Which leads us back to the origin of this thread.
Bush is long gone. buy his book or not.
Barry the easily offended gets the hook for that one. And Libya. And an economy blamed on Bush, and made even better every dang dingity day as Barry threatens our parents Social Security, unemployment keeps getting worse, ( good luck Char ) Not to mention Yemen, your rights, the health care system that just got far more expensive.......
At least I can't blame the TSA groping minions on Barack. Gotta be fair. Blame bush for that one. Or maybe the Congress that should oversee the goons that make flying in America more idiotic than ever before. |
Jb2
| | Posted on Monday, July 18, 2011 - 09:35 pm: |
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Here's one from the left that will take O supporters like a sucker-punch. Yeah, he'll be touted by the left as a right implant and criticized for supporting Harry Reid by the right, and, he'll get it from both sides cause he's in the gaming industry(those evil rich b*****ds), BUT!, there's truth in his words.
Discuss: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/video/2011/07/18/ wynn_slams_obama_on_business_responsible_for_this_ fear_in_america.html
(Message edited by jb2 on July 18, 2011) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 07:32 am: |
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I think "regime change" in foreign countries is pretty useless. I think that us being the world babysitter and setting up puppet governments is an unneccessary waste of lives and money.
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Not up on Libya yet...
Come on Char, how about just a little bit of consistency . Isn't regime change still useless, even in Libya? I can understand not being up on what's going on there. It'a almost a secret war we are conducting, and for some strange reason the press doesn't bother covering this issue. It's being done outside of the Constitution and the War Powers Act. That alone makes it an illegal war. The fact that we are targeting an individual is also very questionable. It's pretty straight forward, Libya has been done wrong at every turn. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:10 am: |
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I have no problem targeting individuals. The opening salvos of Operation Iraqi Freedom were moved up and changed in order to try to kill Saddam before he moved. Killing leadership is a legitimate military objective. We should be targeting Q-daffy (or however he spells it this week..I prefer Q-daffy) at every available opportunity. |
Doerman
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:37 am: |
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It'a almost a secret war we are conducting, and for some strange reason the press doesn't bother covering this issue.
After the first couple of weeks the press went silent. Both here and in Europe. Al Jazeera (aljazeera.com) is covering it, in case you'd like to learn about what's happening now.
The short answer is that it is still a stale mate. In my view it is another Eu/US military "coalition" CF (and I don't mean Carbon Fiber) suffering from a leadership vacuum. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 19, 2011 - 10:53 am: |
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I have no problem launching cruise missiles like they are two for one, and past an expiration date.... I think Somalia could have used a fair share of them....
Pirates and terrorists - exterminate with extreme prejudice.
PS... the 'secret' war just clicked in for funding, the RFP for 'Resilience' under the auspicies of Riot Control, Food Distribution, and Urban Protection against 'poverty uprisings' and of course climate change just went public. Stinks to high hell of UN veil of 'protection and global righteousness' Look for the troops right around election time. Enjoy.
that bullshiate about not needing a weatherman to tell which way the wind is blowing... you will notice the radical flunkees are less than transparent with their intentions and implications with this one.
Get a new tin foil had, stupidity is coming home to roost. |
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