| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
The war against Iraq was ill advised and probably illegal.. That part may be true, the rest is straight from AQ. Want quotes? ( my favorite is when Hamas supported the Dems' in a US election and promised to "treat them in a brotherly manner" if they failed to instantly withdraw from Iraq. No one gave a darn about the Afghan front until Obama declared it the "good war" it seems ) After all, we stole the oil right? ( a combination of left..."we're fighting for oil" and right "we should take the oil to pay for the war" talk show morons ) By faar the vast majority of muslims are nice folk. Per polls made world wide only about the population of the US thinks it's a good idea to murder you. Of them, only a tiny fraction really would do so if given the chance. So, now we are at war in Yemen & Libya. Ill advised and illegal? Probably. Almost undoubtedly. Certainly the motives of our leaders are murky. Bitch about Obama's illegal wars? ( crickets ) How about a solution to the problem? | ||
| Trojan |
Kenm123T I am assuming that you have never left the USA and visited Europe? If you really believe what you have written about Europe then you obviously haven't been here  Chamberlains attitude was very similar to yours it nearly destroyed your country. Chamberlians attitude couldn't be futher from mine actually. He was against war at all costs and for any reason. His attitude wasn't unpopular or unreasonable given the huge loss of life that Europe suffered over the course of the first world war just a few short years previously. many people would have done anything to avoid another war at that time and it cannot be judged on present day morals and thinking. I am simply against being taken to war by politicians who can only justify it by lies and deceit. Trojan Have you forgot why we went to Iraq in the first place? Please enlighten me? was it the non existent WMD's maybe? Was it the 'dossier' on his WMD's that was invented to justify a war? or was the terrible record of human rights that Saddam was guilty of (despite the fact that we supplied him with WMD and other weapons and then did nothing for 15 years!). I was totally in favour of the first Gulf war and only sorry that they didn't finish the job the first time. At least they wouldn't have had to invent a reason for a secind Gulf war and all the problems it brought. As for Afghanistan, I was in favour of our original goals and intentions there. It is just a shame that these were forgetten so quickly and we became mired int he same onging and unwinnable conflict that both the Russians and british have faught before. As for normal muslims about 300 million of the billion plus muslim population is jihadi minded? The last NORMAL as you frame it Cleric was killed for his moderate views in 1979. Utter rubbish!! Again I'll bet you have never met a muslim let alone spoken to them. The media would have us beleive that what you think is true, but it is absolutely not. Don't beleive everything your government/newspapers tell you. Open your eyes and you will learn to see  | ||
| Hootowl |
"I was totally in favour of the first Gulf war and only sorry that they didn't finish the job the first time. At least they wouldn't have had to invent a reason for a secind Gulf war and all the problems it brought." There was no second Gulf War. Both sides signed a cease fire (not a peace treaty) which SH broke repeatedly. Hostilities resumed in 2003 and he was removed from power. How many UN resolutions does it take for a war to be "legal"? | ||
| Reindog |
Horsecrap. ken123t's opinions about Europe are correct. Your little "I am assuming..." screeds don't fly and are nothing but an attempt to discredit your debating opponent. You don't know anything about ken123t and you certainly don't know me, where I have traveled or who I know. -Reindong June 27, 2008. | ||
| Drkside79 |
>>>>>Dark why are you jealous of your boss's new car. If you want the benefits of being the boss step up and be one. The burdens of being the Boss are becoming more than they are worth. Soon you will not have a boss because you probably wont have a job. Lose the jealousy seize an opportunity make it pay off big for you and your family. KEN- AT NO POINT DID I SAY I WAS JEALOUS! I AM HOWEVER SEETHING. I AM DAMN GOOD AT WHAT I DO AND HAVE WORKED FOR AND EARNED WHAT I HAVE. I DIDN'T HAVE IT LAND IN MY LAP FOR MY DADDYS EFFORTS. Anyway I also can honestly say i do more work than my boss any day of the week. he is a lazy piece of shit Rich kid who's family has made a killing by underpaying their employees. As for seizing the opportunity I am. I have a second interview with a new company this week. If i get it i will be out this door quicker than shit through a goose. >>>>>Soon you will not have a boss because you probably wont have a job. I'd really like you to explain that before i give you the response I'd like to. | ||
| Kenm123t |
So you think you boss is a spoiled rich kid Hmm When you think of your boss that way its only a short time till you can no longer hide your contempt for him. Verbally or in a some act of spite you will do something to rub the rich kids nose in it. It will cost you your job. I have dealt with employees like this myself. I learned save my self the grief if they are not on the same page NEXT! | ||
| Drkside79 |
Hmmm me: works all day. Him: kicked out of college, kicked out of the Navy, leaves to go to Grandmas for lunch and comes back 3 hours later. Let me tell you that inspires confidence. I hope for your companies sake you are not like this at all. Perhaps you are right and i will lose my tamper. I rather doubt it. Hopefully My interview will go well on Wed and this issue will no longer present a problem. Oh by the way this dumb-ass in his last speech to us descried the company as a ship with him at the helm and us being the oars that make it go. I'm not sure how i feel about that since the only ships i know of that used oars for travel were without fail being rowed by slaves. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Trojan we went to Iraq in the first place because they Invaded Kuwait. The rest was enforcing UN mandates. As for the Muslims I knew the 9 -11 terrorists Muhammad Atta lived 3 miles from me. The man had the coldest eyes of any person I have ever seen. People left the apron area to hanger fly elsewere after class. They took Flight training at the same flight school and time I was in Commercial Ground school. We have a large Muslim population in So Fla. I have family in Sweden ,Ireland and friends in Austria as well as Austrailia. I get around a little. Read history you ll find war only ends with muslims at death YOURS. We have been dealing with the muslims at some level since we sent the brits packing. Our first foriegn war was in present day Libya. Do you know why? Non muslims have to pay tribute or a tax this is how the koran teaches muslims to live off stolen money. Our answer was millions for defense not one cent for tribute. Now our president is removing Quadauffi for the caliphate in Iran on this point I totally agree with your point of lieing to start a war Its not your leaders its ours this time 2012 will be our first chance to correct that issue. Inclosing Do you think letting Hitler exterminate all of the Jews Gypsys stealing Austria and Poland was preferable to going to war? Wake up you soon will have a new Dunkirk in the Falklands Argentina can take it any time they want and Britain is helpless to stop it. May be if your PARAs stopped shooting at my family in Ireland you could send them to the Falklands (Message edited by Kenm123t on June 27, 2011) | ||
| Aesquire |
I agree that Desert Shield/Storm ended too soon. I greatly disagreed with GHWB. GHWB was, however, following the UN resolution "authorizing" the war. Still, I'm an American, and tend to be jacksonian. http://www.lts.com/~cprael/Meade_FAQ.htm So I want a war over, victorious, and ended. Fast. I am however not Pure Jacksonian in my outlook. http://www.lts.com/~cprael/jackson.html So, I am less interested in "breaking the will to fight" of the PEOPLE of an enemy, but rather breaking the existence of the leaders. Our enemies are almost always slave soldiers of the God King. ( or Supreme Chairman, Presidente For Life, whatever... ) Eliminate the God King, the troops will go home to their families. Kill the head of an evil regime, and the regime collapses. Kill the US president, and we go on with only the TV guys and the Funeral interrupting children's shows being a real disruption. I know, I've been there. there are exceptions. Syria being a notable example of a warrior clan being in power, and a long warrior tradition in the armed forces. Asad could be replaced by a cousin and disruption would be far less than if the so called Prez of Iran was killed. Not good guys, but less of the cult of personality that most dictators have. A little. was it the non existent WMD's maybe? Was it the 'dossier' on his WMD's that was invented to justify a war? That "dossier" was from the United nations Weapons inspectors. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halabja_poison_gas_at tack http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_disarmament_time line_1990%E2%80%932003 Here's a picture that's not all that upsetting. No faces with lung tissue. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Chemical_weapons _Halabja_Iraq_March_1988.jpg Never. Ever. was ANY documentation of the destruction of KNOWN poison gas stocks given to us. Between the Clinton admin. stop of inspections and the Bush admin resumption. Despite the cease fire agreement, which specified such. UNSCOM discovers documents, at Iraqi Air Force headquarters, showing that Iraq overstated by at least 6,000 the number of chemical bombs it told the U.N. it had used during the Iran–Iraq War. These bombs remain unaccounted for. Iraq suspends all cooperation with UNSCOM teams. ( this phrase, or one meaning the same appears multiple time on this wiki page.....) UNSCOM destroys large quantities of illegal chemical weapons and related equipment. Iraq admitted that some of this equipment had been used to produce VX gas in May 1997. According to U.S. Intelligence, China, with help from France and Syria, has secretly sold to Iraq the prohibited chemical Hydroxyl-terminated polybutadiene, or HTPB, which is used in making solid fuel for long-range missiles. France denies that the sale took place. U.S. intelligence traces the sale back to China's Qilu Chemicals company in Shandong province. The chemical sale involved a French company known as CIS Paris, which helped broker the sale of 20 tons of HTPB, which was then shipped from China to the Syrian port of Tartus. The chemicals were then shipped by truck from Syria to an Iraqi missile manufacturing plant. UNMOVIC Chairman Hans Blix tells UNSC members that the Iraqi weapons declaration filed on December 7 "is essentially a reorganized version" of information Iraq provided UNSCOM in 1997, and that it "is not enough to create confidence" that Iraq has abandoned its WMD efforts. Hans Blix states that Iraq still has not made a "fundamental decision" to disarm, despite recent signs of increased cooperation. Specifically, Iraq has refused to destroy its al-Samoud 2 long range missiles. (These are not a WMD, and Iraq is permitted "battlefield" missiles. However, Iraq's missiles were limited by UN instruction to a diameter of 600mm, and the Al-Samoud II has a diameter of 760mm). These missiles are deployed and mobile. Also, an R-400 aerial bomb was found that could possibly contain biological agents. Given this find, the UN Inspectors have requested access to the Al-Aziziyah weapons range to verify that all 155 R-400 bombs can be accounted for and proven destroyed. Blix also expresses skepticism over Iraq's claims to have destroyed its stockpiles of anthrax and VX nerve agent in Time magazine. Blix said he found it "a bit odd" that Iraq, with "one of the best-organized regimes in the Arab world," would claim to have no records of the destruction of these illegal substances. "I don't see that they have acquired any credibility," Blix said An international group of volunteers leaves London, heading for Baghdad to act as human shields. Most will leave in March fearing that they would actually become human shields.  Now, I'm willing to believe that Trojan is not responsible, himself, for the genocide of my people, and the arrest, torture and imprisonment of my direct ancestors, (some of whom, I admit, did kill English troops in multiple wars, including the American Revolution ) I find it hard to believe that his ideological hatred for a foreign leader, no longer in power, has made him so unwilling to face facts that he repeatedly parrots propaganda known to be outright lies. ( although I admit, I'm still mad at LBJ for his mishandling of Vietnam.... really should get over that....) http://www.voanews.com/english/news/middle-east/Ir aqs-Kurds-Mark-Anniversary-of-Poison-Gas-Attack--8 7816742.html So, now that the CURRENT Prez has us in 2 Illegal wars, ( not approved by Congress ) are you upset with HIM? | ||
| Aesquire |
I was joking about Trojan being responsible for the Genocide of my people. ( the Irish ) He has to be too young. Kemn123t, Irish? eh? ( I'm named after an escaped english slave, myself. ) http://members.tripod.com/mise_eire/irishhistory.h tml You'd have thought by now that island wsn't worth the trouble. | ||
| Trojan |
Inclosing Do you think letting Hitler exterminate all of the Jews Gypsys stealing Austria and Poland was preferable to going to war? Wake up you soon will have a new Dunkirk in the Falklands Argentina can take it any time they want and Britain is helpless to stop it. May be if your PARAs stopped shooting at my family in Ireland you could send them to the Falkland Definitely one of the most ignorant, ill informed and historically inaccurate comments I have had the displaesure to read on ANY forum EVER. I don't know how I can argue with it because it is so out of kilter. If you read a little history that hasn't been written by an American you may find out that American politicians were also vehemently anti war in 1939 and refused point blank to fight Hitler or get involved in the European war (WWII actually started in 1939, not 1941 as you may think!). Isolationism was the watchword back then. As for the Falklands....Where were you then? I don't seem to remember any military help from Reagan in our 'special relationship' when we had to fight that particular war on our own. We got some kogistical support and use of mid Atlantic airbase, but that was about it. As for the Irish argument..How far back to you want to go? Maybe you haven't read about the massacre of Irish protestants in the 1600's, which was the main reason that Oliver Cromwell went over there in the first place. maybe they don't teach about the Irish supporting numerous plots by Spain to overthrow the English state and place a Catholic on the throne over the last 6 hundred years? Where was Ireland during WWII by the way? How many innocent people have been killed by Irish 'Nationalists'? On 10 April 1992, whilst serving as a City of London motorcycle patrol police officer, I had the misfortune to attend a massive explosion at St Mary Axe in London after the IRA planted a huge bomb. Luckily they had mistaken the Baltic Exchange for their intended target the stock exchange. 100 pounds of Semtex wrapped in fertilser tend to do a lot of damage though. When I got there one of my colleagues was trying to give an 11 year old girl (the daughter of the caretaker) artificial respiration. I had to stop him because her head was only hanging on by a thread of skin, and no amount of help was going to save here. I am not anti Irish and have visted the country many times. The vast majority of people there are certainly not anti British or as obsessed by their poor treatment over the years. Don't talk to me about Irish torture or genocide, or even your distorted view of Europe, because you have no idea what has been going on over here for hundreds of years. American irish folk stories seldom address what has really happened over history on both sides. As for Hitler exterminating Jews, maybe you need to read about the US response to pleas by the Jewish Councils in Europe to let more refugees enter the USA between 1940 and 1944. The US stuck to a policy of allowing only very small numbers of refugees into the country on a strict quote basis (as did canada, Australia and Britain sadly) even though they were very well aware of the camps and extermination policy from late 1940 onwards at least. Only a very few countries (Sweden & Denmark in particular even though they were in a very precarious position themselves) opened up their borders to jewish refugees with no questions asked or made any extra effort to accomodate jewish refugees during the war. | ||
| Aesquire |
I've noticed every time the USA gets isolationist...Europe burns. No real surprise, since Europe has been at war for centuries.... 30 years war, roses, France vs. England, Germany vs planet, Russia vs Germany, Belgium vs some little kid on an ox cart.... As for the Falklands....Where were you then? That logistical support was, from my point of view, mostly New model sidewinders that helped your Harriers kick the crap out of the Argies. Sure we could have done more. Orbital bombardment of the Argentine capital until surrender? I'm not going to argue the Irish thing. I'm well aware that when the English thought ox carts were high tech, the Irish were raiding the coast and taking slaves. I'm named after one. Imperial England was ever so thoughtful in it's kind treatment of Ireland ever since.  bet's on when Trojan was going to blame Eugenics and the Final solution to the Jewish Problem on America now answered. Please step up and collect your bets. He's actually right, since the US Progressive Movement, ( see current Democrat Party ) was big on Eugenics and propaganda. Heavy influence on the Nazi's. Which then slid that over to the Arab Nationalists. Also see current US president's influences and spiritual advisers. Quick question. Bush's "illegal wars" bad, Obama's illegal wars good right, Trojan? Next pool, when Trojan blames us for the Industrial Revolution. | ||
| Trojan |
I've noticed every time the USA gets isolationist...Europe burns. No real surprise, since Europe has been at war for centuries.... 30 years war, roses, France vs. England, Germany vs planet, Russia vs Germany, Belgium vs some little kid on an ox cart.... Gosh thanks...How did we last 4000 years and see great empires rise and fall without you. Quick question. Bush's "illegal wars" bad, Obama's illegal wars good right, Trojan? I give up. I can only say that your grip on history is sadly lacking and trying to argue against it is like trying to argue against the flat earth society or the religious right extremists who deny evolution or the dinosaurs. It seems that you can invent/rewrite historical facts to fit your arguments despite evidence to the contrary, so nothing I can say will change that sadly. I have never differentiated between the Bush or Obama wars if you read what I have written. I don't defend or prefer either of them on this argument, nor do i take any blame away from our own weak political leaders. Next pool, when Trojan blames us for the Industrial Revolution Actually you mostly have Britain to thank for the industrial revolution, but I'm sure you can rewrite the history of that too I'm well aware that when the English thought ox carts were high tech, the Irish were raiding the coast and taking slaves. I think you'll find that it was Vikings who settled in Ireland and raided the English coast, not the Irish people. The Irish did not have the shipbuilding expertise or experience to launch any major attacks on Britain or anywhere else until a long time after the Vikings moved in. Indigenous Irish people either moved inland to avoid the Vikings or were killed/enslaved/enveleoped by them just like everyone else was. (Message edited by trojan on June 28, 2011) (Message edited by trojan on June 28, 2011) | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Britain should pay reperations to the Irish. | ||
| Trojan |
Britain should pay reperations to the Irish. For what? maybe the Romans should pay reparations to the rest of Europe, or the Vikings, or the Mongols, Gauls, Goths, Moors, Visigoths etc etc etc. Maybe the catholic shurch should pay reparations for all the people they burned, tortured and murdered during the inquisition? History is full of stuff that we wouldn't do today, but that doesn't mean we should pay reparations for what happened 100's of years ago. I think that if you read your history properly you'd actually see that a lot of the 'Irish problems' were actually caused by Irish lords loyal to and working in support of the English Crown or by Irish nobility fighting amongst themselves rather than by England or English troops, but of course this and a lot of other inconvenient history is also forgotten by the Irish historians (particularly those that love to claim Irish roots but have never been to the place!). The US doesn't have the greatest record on human rights when it comes to dealing with sections of its own indigenous population either, so is hardly in a position to preach to Briatin about rights | ||
| Davegess |
Matt, the only history that counts is the rather peculiar one written by the same folks who believe in intelligent design, say global warming is a hoax and stop just short of saying "the only good Arab is a dead Arab" You are wasting your time arguing with them | ||
| Reindog |
Nice hyperbole, Dave. | ||
| Drkside79 |
>>>>>Nice hyperbole Their would have had to be and exaggeration for that to be true. lol Anyway in all seriousness Trojan is mostly correct. What the English did to them was no worse than what we did to the Indians. Although on the flip-side England and the EIT Co were a pain in every ones ass for quite awhile. | ||
| Reindog |
Nice grammar and spelling. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Stupid phone....  I really need to take off the Auto-Correct/suggest. Trust me when I say that the above mentioned statement isn't the worst thing its done to me. Oh and BTW I am aware that "their" is possessive and it should be an not and. Oh and bite me you grammar Nazi  (Message edited by drkside79 on June 28, 2011) | ||
| Reindog |
I figured you might be on a "smart" phone which tends to make the presenter appear uneducated. Good luck on getting the new job although you might consider the Governor of Illinois position. Oops, this is a family oriented website. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
One that gets alot of play here by educated people is loose and lose. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Dark, If you are as good as you say you are, put on your big girl panties and BECOME boss. In this economic time, there are more businesses being created. Become one. Been running self employed since 1996. It's not been easy, but I own everything I make. If your boss isn't paying you what you're worth, find someone who will. More than likely, that boss is you. I have an opportunity to start a new business with a friend. It could all crash and burn or it could soar. Either way, I'll have equity in it. | ||
| Reindog |
To and too, but not two, gets mangled here on a regular basis. Socialist and Commie bastard are often not recognized as synonyms to. | ||
| Reindog |
And what kind of brain dead idiot would use the word "whilst". Damn it, speak 'Merican | ||
| Drkside79 |
FT that was a very passive aggressive post. Not sure whether to fire back for being called a bitch or not.... Oh well as i said I have a 2nd interview tomorrow so I'll let you know how that goes as I am sure you are concerned. @ Rein it should have been too | ||
| Hootowl |
"And what kind of brain dead idiot would use the word "whilst"." Guilty. | ||
| Cowboy |
As this thread has turned in a catch all try this on for size. I am confused as hell. I see in the news that a new bridge in California is be made in China. What is going on there I though that Californis was a union state whay are they farming out a project like this. Could it be that they just want the rest of the country to be Union while they RAT for cheap. Where is your gloris leader ( O bum A) Does he change his mind every day one day for union one day aginst union. HE HE what a Joke he has turned out to be. | ||
| Mtjm2 |
  Lets Go Mr. Caine | ||
| Reindog |
Cowboy, I read about the San Francisco-Oakland Bay Bridge being constructed in China and thought the same thing. California is the closest thing to a lost cause with Liberals and Socialists controlling the vote. As a result, we get leaders in Sacramento who tend to view business as a class warfare enemy who must be punished. As a result, businesses naturally drift off to business friendly states such as Texas over time causing more unemployment and lost revenue. Now, these hypocrites farm manufacturing jobs off to China. But its a beautiful place to live...... |
