| Author | Message | ||
     Two_seasons |
Got a slight problem here. Stormy night on Tuesday the 21st. Riding home from work. Slight drizzle but major rainfall that day and day before. Out of nowhere, a barricade in my lane. Swerved, and with that took some of the frontal impact out of the equation. Damage: Right headlight assy Fairing Fairing bracket/bracing Right pod It appears as no more than some rash at this point, but it's in the shop for an estimate right now. After accident, local muni public works (PW) truck pulls up, guys inside tell me police put them up along this street. 911 already called. Police arrive, took my statement, denied that they were involved in barricade placement, said that is PW duties and "besides, this barricade appears to be from the county" not from our muni. It did have markings indicating that. Here's my issues with this accident. 1.) No light, no flasher, no reflective tape on barricades 2.) No signage indicating barricading/street closed ahead 3.) Only curb lane barricaded in that direction with TWO barricades (the first one I ran over-they must have been close together and one of them was already on the ground) and only in that one spot were the barricades placed along that entire street 4.) Accident report states "inattentive driving" I don't feel that it was me that was at fault here based on the 1,2,3,4 issues as listed above. I haven't called my insurance agent yet. I have a $500. deductible. Can I pursue re-imbursement for damages with the muni where this occurred? How would you deal with this? EDIT Wanted to add that I did not dump the bike and I was in gear head to toe. Another EDIT Just so you know, I wasn't ticketed (cited) for "inattentive driving" (Message edited by two_seasons on June 24, 2011) (Message edited by two_seasons on June 24, 2011) | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
I'd find a small to medium sized reputable law firm in my area and give them a call. Any decent lawyer will either talk to you on the phone for a bit and let you know what he/she thinks, or will bring you in for a consultation. That will give you an idea of whether you have any sort of case or if you should just pay the 500 and forget about it. | ||
| Jb2 |
Had a friend who hit a barricade set up much like your situation. Mound of dirt in the middle of the road with wooden barricades. It's on the exit of a right hand corner and was out of view until he was right on top of it. He launched the bike over the dirt mound and beautifully dropped it into a 10 ft hole. He was ATGATT at the time and cleared the hole and the bike, landing in a second dirt pile just beyond the hole. Forked the bike up really bad. He was livid by the time the cops arrived. The barricade had light activated beacons which were not working. The hole was not there in the morning when he left for work. He took the city to court and won. His insurance backed him up in court sending a traffic expert to testify. He was also written up for inattentive driving and damage to public property. He got all the charges and fines dropped. The city had to pay for his bike and lawyer fees. It took about a year to get everything settled. His insurance company was nice enough to handle the motorcycle claim under his policy until they subrogated to the city's insurance. It's rare that you win. The prosecutor made sure he understood that... almost like an implied threat that, "We'll be looking out for you." | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Sounds like that inattentive driving thing is there to try scaring you away from legally going after them. I would also suggest finding yourself a lawyer. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
lawyer time if there ever was one. not for big settlement but to me made whole... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Yet another case of gov't f'ing the public. Out of control. | ||
| Two_seasons |
I'm working right now, so my feedback is severely restricted. I figured that the statement "inattentive driving" was put in the accident report for the very reason Natex suggested above. What really fries my hide is this...if an employer did unsafe acts in the workplace, OSHA would be all over that employer! However, if a municipality (town or city or county) does that to their residents or guests traveling on their (our) roadways, it's acceptable! How come the double standard? Why aren't we the people standing up to this crap? Is it any less of a hazard than texting and driving? Don't both contribute to potential deaths on the street and highway? I'm just so pissed that we the people (the majority taxpayers) are treated like second class citizens in matters where gov't employees and their actions are concerned. Our safety is at stake and they (gov't employees) just either shrug their shoulders or cross their arms over their chests when asked about it and effectively say "who wants to know". Pure BS imho. Have to sign off for awhile. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
I would talk to my insurance agent, if you have one. They would rather not pay so they're on your side. | ||
| Sl33py |
one of the few instances to lawyer up. take lots of pics, do video if you can, at night... in the drizzle if you can swing it. Don't expect immediate results, but fight the fight and best of luck! | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Ditto to all the above. Fight it. Glad you are okay! Those Bastards! | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Just think the crucification Average Joe would get if he was caught sticking something dangerously into the road, causing an accident? It's all about accountability and the gov't a big fat ZERO in that category. It's never anyone's fault in the government and all the time they are spending YOUR money to cover THEIR ass. | ||
| Sifo |
I've got a couple of questions. Were the barricades there to prevent traffic from running into a hazard on the road? What was the speed limit? How fast were you going? Even without reflective material I assume these were white and orange barricades. Probably far more visible than a stalled car would be. Glad your OK, but it sounds like with slightly different circumstances you could have fared far worse. EDIT: Before I get flamed for asking these questions, realize that these questions and more will come up in court. (Message edited by SIFO on June 24, 2011) | ||
| Vtpeg |
I dropped my bike last summer in a corner full of sand from recent construction. Talked to the insurance agent about going after the excavator at least to cover my deductible. He said the conduct has to be will full or terribly negligent to win it. Sounds like you would fall into the terribly negligent category. I ate my deductible, you shouldn't. | ||
| Metra6924 |
Glad to hear you're ok, sorry about the bike. The Federal Highway Administration publishes the "Manual for Uniform Traffic Control Devices" which is available at http://mutcd.fhwa.dot.gov/ I'm only familiar with the railroad crossing section, but I believe the manual contains information regarding temporary lane closures and barricades. If you're going to fight it, check out this document. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
He said the conduct has to be will full or terribly negligent to win it. Sounds like your insurance agent was too lazy to pursue it. They have departments in the bigger insurance companies to go after the other guy's insurance when they are in the wrong. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Sifo: Barricades did not block anything such as open pit, dirt on street. Absolutely no reason for them to be there at the time I was driving down that street. 35mph posted. My speed a little less due to hitting the binders right before impact. Yes, white and orange barricades, wooden, about 10" wide and 1" thick, supported on removable wooden saw-horse type legs. Can you imagine full frontal impact and this large wooden barricade going into and over the fairing and trying to take my head off. You are correct about stalled vehicle. Small reflectors = little reaction time. These barricades HAD NO REFLECTION ANYWHERE ON THEM! Pictures via my wife on-scene w/digital camera to back that up. What troubles me is that the city this occurred in could have put signage up indicating barricades ahead---somewhere! Metra: Thanks for the link. A co-worker of mine, first shift in same dept. as me, pushed a manhole cover back over a manhole on his way home that same night within 1 mile of where I was. Same city too! He rides a nice HD with only dew-rag. Imagine if he hit that open manhole with his front tire at 35mph. Probably would be going to a funeral on Monday. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Just found this in the PDF version of the link that Metro provided above. CHAPTER 2B. REGULATORY SIGNS, BARRICADES, AND GATES Section 2B.01 Application of Regulatory Signs Standard: 01 Regulatory signs shall be used to inform road users of selected traffic laws or regulations and indicate the applicability of the legal requirements. 02 Regulatory signs shall be installed at or near where the regulations apply. The signs shall clearly indicate the requirements imposed by the regulations and shall be designed and installed to provide adequate visibility and legibility in order to obtain compliance. 03 Regulatory signs shall be retroreflective or illuminated (see Section 2A.07) to show the same shape and similar color by both day and night, unless specifically stated otherwise in the text discussion in this Manual for a particular sign or group of signs. 04 The requirements for sign illumination shall not be considered to be satisfied by street or highway lighting. | ||
| Sifo |
I'm wondering if there was standing water that may have receded. I agree that a warning sign prior to the barricade would be much safer. At the same time we are all expected to adjust out speed for conditions. It's never a good sign when you hit a stationary object. That would play against you big time in a lawsuit. I would also be curious to hear the story from who ever placed the barricade. I'm just trying to be realistic in pointing out that a lawsuit will be anything but a slam dunk. As far as your insurance co. going to bat for you, I have my doubts. They are on the hook for your damages minus your deductible. That may not be worth spending expensive lawyer time on from their perspective. It won't hurt to ask though. This is a good lesson for all of us that we really need to be careful out on the roads. Things change without warning all the time. Hope this all work out for you. | ||
| Two_seasons |
The deductible aside, what really bothers me is the accident report mentioned nothing about the barricade itself. Such as: no reflectivity, no lighting, only on one leg, the other one just laying in the street lane. And also that multiple vehicles did and were hitting the same one I hit. The only difference is they did not stop and then report it. Sifo: There was no standing water. Evidence of that would be debris and trash after the water retreated. There was none of that. But the bigger point/concern I have is this...how can any town/city/county put objects onto a road/street/highway surface without proper lighting, signage. The public works people in this case clearly did not follow federal guidelines regarding signage, placement, lighting when they put those barricades down. Local/State/Federal play by different rules that what we the public have to adhere to, not to mention our employers, and, if you are a small business owner, what you can/cannot do within the OSHA rules. That I came this close to serious injury has awakened my senses and what isn't right around me. I'm not sure what my next move will be, but I don't think it would hurt to contact an attorney and also my insurance agent. Does the Riders Edge courses point out what Local/State/Federal obligations are to the motoring public? Maybe this is why I'm so ignorant at this point as I never took the course. Every one of us deserves to be safe on our motorways. With the kind of taxes we pay in the form of registrations, tax at the pump (both federal and state), and personal property, I believe we have every right to hold those who endanger our lives accountable. Those same agencies sure do their best every day to hold us accountable for our actions, whether public or private. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Fight the good fight! Wish you the best. | ||
| Sifo |
If not standing water, there must have been some hazard they were trying to divert traffic from at some point. I'm not trying to say you don't have a valid point but I don't think they are likely to set barricades in random places. There is another side to this story that you will need to deal with if it winds up in front of a judge. I hope you share what you find out. Good luck to you in this. | ||
| Two_seasons |
It was lightly raining when I hit the barricade. There was a car in the other lane. There was water spraying from the car tires. Barricades were placed on this street, in this area, because water was flowing out of a wooded area (a park), then running over the curb and flowing along the curb apron and then into the storm drain. Edit: And this street is crowned, meaning that water from the street flows to the curbing apron. So too if the water is flowing over the curbing from an adjacent property. Make no mistake, there was a lot of rain that came down in a 36 hour period around here. Depending on where you were, up to 6". I've had my share of saddle time in storms like this one last Tuesday night. And since I was able to walk, I walked up to where the barricades were. There was no water running over the curbing and along the curb apron at that time in the barricaded area. IT WAS running over the curbing where I parked my bike however. Looked just like a backyard waterfall! There was, at the time of my accident, no raging water, anywhere, along this stretch of road. (Message edited by two_seasons on June 25, 2011) | ||
| Sifo |
Make no mistake, there was a lot of rain that came down in a 36 hour period around here. Depending on where you were, up to 6". There was, at the time of my accident, no raging water, anywhere, along this stretch of road. I just realized you are talking about Tuesday night in the Chicago area. That was a bad night. We were out for dinner in Villa Park and wound up being ushered into the washrooms when news of a tornado touch down came just a few miles south. At least the restaurant we were at had a generator. Every other place in the area went dark. The friends we were eating with had a huge tree come down in their back yard too. Not exactly the night out we had in mind. Here's the thing, I'm sure they didn't randomly place the barricade. I'm guessing it was water related and may not have been as bad when you came by. No doubt they didn't follow the exact rules that you have found. That would certainly play to your side in court. Just to play devils advocate though, the other side will almost certainly make the case that this wasn't a planned lane closure, but an emergency situation where they had their hands full making it difficult or impossible to follow the letter of the code and still meet critical tasks. It would certainly be argued that any warning of a road hazard is better than no warning at all. My point here is that if the barricade had been placed as part of a planned road project you would have a much better case. As part of emergency response, not as much. Court is always a crap shoot, even more so not knowing the story from the other side. | ||
| Jerzydevil |
Even in an emergency situation, the barricade has to be reflective to be seen in advance. Especially if there are no advance warning signs. Most lawyers will give a free consult. Of course I would use one that doesn't have an office in the county. | ||
| Two_seasons |
It was a rough evening, no doubt about it. However, my shift ends at 10:30pm and by then, the storm was a mere dribble and light winds. I deliberately plan my rides, whether to work, cruising the countryside, or on vacation. I try to mitigate my risks. As we all know, emergency services when run locally are re-active and not pro-active, meaning there probably was a called placed to 911 indicating that water was running in this road. Public Works or the Police don't routinely, around here at least, put barricades or signage up before they are asked to. My worldview of my life is this---what is the cost of the next step taken. I know my accident has diminished my ability to do some things to the bikes this summer. I know that it was me that hit the barricade. And, sometimes I do too much "research" before I make a move and then loose an opportunity. The authorities always tell us "tell the truth so we can get to the bottom of this" but when the tables are turned, will they do likewise? I've already seen on the accident report that they omitted to mention the barricades had no signage, no lights, no reflectivity. Yes, I mentioned that to the Police Officer taking the accident report, but he omitted it in the filed report which I have obtained from the Police Department. | ||
| Two_seasons |
UPDATE Got my bike estimate back and here it is... Right Front Combi Lamp Lens $134. Right OTR Headlight $25 Right Inner Headlight $25 Right Parking Lamp $2 Front Fairing $144. Front Fairing Bracket $122. Labor $179 for a grand total of almost $665. I'm thankful that it was this cheap. You guys are right, Buell's crash well. Thanks Erik Buell and Elves for making a cheap to keep motorcycle. I'm not sure what I'm going to do with the old fairing. | ||
| Froggy |
You might want to double check, normally the head lamp assemblies come with bulbs preinstalled, or at least the XB ones do. |
