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Scooter808484
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 03:38 pm: | 
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Ducati still uses the under seat exhaust.... as does Agusta.... as does Honda. The brakes??? That duc still has to this day the best of any production bike. THe tank and frame..... your joking right. Don't go there with the Koolaid.
Ahhh, that's the wonderful thing about racing. Pretty soon we'll all get to see who has the better ideas.
Anyone know when that time might be? |
Davegess
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 03:39 pm: |
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Duc is a nice retro bike for sure
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Bads1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 03:53 pm: |
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Pfft. Underseat exhaust. Thats *soooo* 2007. Harley liked it enough to buy the company though, so you can take comfort from that fact...
Good one Reep. The Agusta puts down a meazly 186 HP. Yeah HD bought it and shut down Buell 100% to save its own arse.lol Then sold it back to them. Hey there still around ain't they?? |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:00 pm: |
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Why isn't the Desmosedici a Superbike? It is absolutely eligible to race in that class should anyone choose to do so. It is a street legal bike produced in quantity. It is eligible to race in AMA as a superbike. It doesn't. Why? For various reasons, the 1098R is actually a superior racing machine.
I'd love to hear what exactly it is that Bill doesn't know what he's talking about. Try sticking to the topic of discussion and avoid the personal attacks.
Koolaid?
Ever seen another motorcycle that lacked a rear wheel hub like the new EBR 1190RS?
The best brakes are those that win. Please see Pegasus Race Team's results against what you deem the best of any production bike. The tank and the frame? Koolaid? Why is it that all the leading FIM WSBK machined don't use the street bike fuel tank location, instead converting it to airbox and moving the fuel tank lower, under the front of the seat?
Wise up. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:02 pm: |
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>>> The Agusta puts down a meazly 186 HP.
Not so much. Plus it blew up in what seemed like just about every Superbike race it entered here. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:08 pm: |
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Not so much. Plus it blew up in what seemed like just about every Superbike race it entered here.
Also very very low funded teams with limited testing in the race enviroment. But the again Blake I seem to remember alot of Buell's expire in the day. Hell Haydens Yosh Suzuki expired this past weekend. Before you go there lets hope the 1190RS stays glued together also. We haven't seen a race yet. I'm hoping the best for them.
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Bads1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:21 pm: |
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While your at it Blake show us where that bike is eligible ??? Tell us why the 1198 is superior ?? Then please ask Bill why underseat exhaust are sooo 2007. Hell ducati is leading WSB points right now using it. Josh Hayes is using it on a Yamaha and leading points with it also. Blake Young trailing real close with a 1990's side mounted exhaust on the Team Suzuki Yosh bike. Therers no personal attacks here. There have been no names called. I'm a Buell fan. But also of all makes of certain models. When I say Koolaid it seems as if its not Buell its not superior which is not the case. |
Pkforbes87
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:57 pm: |
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"Why isn't the Desmosedici a Superbike? It is absolutely eligible to race in that class should anyone choose to do so."
Wrong. It slightly exceeds the $40k price tag limit for Superbike.
Also, Dana's arguments are entertaining.
"Everyone else is doing it this way, so doing it another way is wrong."
I can't wait to see some race results from the 1190. |
Unique_id
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 04:57 pm: |
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Hey! Nice Buell. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 05:10 pm: |
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Maybe Ducati will sell the Desmosedici ultra-limited edition next year... same dated technology, but in flat black!
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Bads1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 05:20 pm: |
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So Bill considering that the bike was built in 2006. I suppose dated now. But Moto GP tech on the street??? Hmmm what ever you say.lol |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 05:37 pm: |
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 I'm just having fun.
I do think under the motor is a better performing location for an exhaust than under the seat. Less inertial resistance to the side to side transitions. Less material. Less heat to the rider.
And I also think that ZTL brakes can stop as good as any other brake (with sufficient development of techniques and materials, which seems to have been done on the 1190)... and that ZTL allows substantially less unsprung weight for the front end, which is a huge handling advantage, and less rotational inertia, which is a significant power advantage.
I also think the hubless back wheel is brilliant... again, less rotational and unsprung weight.
Both bikes use premium Ohlins suspension. The bikes are very close in weight and power.
I'm having fun poking fun at the Desmosedici, which I'm sure is an incredible bike. But when I hold it up next to the 1190 RS, I really do see dated technology... not so much because the Duc is out of date, but because the Erik Buell Racing is SO advanced.
The fair question is if the 1190 new technology really works. The theories are absolutely solid, but unproven.
I'm looking forward to Mid Ohio. I hope that the 1190 is there, so I can see the next chapter in motorcycle evolution being written first hand! |
Bads1
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 05:45 pm: |
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I'm looking forward to Mid Ohio. I hope that the 1190 is there, so I can see the next chapter in motorcycle evolution being written first hand!
I'm hoping so as well. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 06:50 pm: |
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quote:So Bill considering that the bike was built in 2006. I suppose dated now. But Moto GP tech on the street??? Hmmm what ever you say.lol
Motorcycle tech is evolving at an alarming rate, just like computers. The Desmo was the top dog back in its day, as were many other high performance bikes in the past. At one time the Sportser was one of the fastest things you could get. The Playstation 3 was great back in its day, and way ahead of its time. Now it is just a relic. Times change, things change, and a new leader takes the crown.
Oh, and anything bigger than a Blast is overkill on the street. |
Swampy
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 07:10 pm: |
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So...Froggy.....where is the Erik Buell Racing dealer list? I can't seem to find it at the Erik Buell Racing website |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 07:23 pm: |
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You let me know when you find it. I found out about mine in a local newspaper |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 07:33 pm: |
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There will not be a list posted until a dealer network is more developed . . . just a personal guess on my part.
But there are good folks hard at work on it.
A dealer network, at least in the United States, is required (I think) to sell to the public. There have been some "work arounds" like the Corvette "Museum Delivery" wherein the company forms an allegiance with an existing dealer and "opens" a dealership at the factory. The Corvette "Museum Delivery" is really a cool deal. . .
quote:CORVETTE® MUSEUM DELIVERY
Museum delivery of your new Corvette® is available through your dealer. With this special event, you're first welcomed to the National Corvette Museum in Bowling Green, KY, with signs commemorating the special day. This is followed by a tour of the assembly plant conducted by your own Corvette Museum Delivery VIP tour guide. Then comes a personal VIP guided tour of the museum, which culminates with the viewing of a brand-new Corvette on display – your Corvette. Next, a member of the National Corvette Museum Delivery Team runs you through a thorough orientation, followed by the delivery presentation of your new vehicle. Finally, a unique gold decal is placed on the inside of the drivers door jamb to signify the importance of this memorable occasion.
Porsche does the European Delivery which is also very well done and consistently gets rave reviews. (Helpful note: do not leave ANYTHING (even a CD in the player) when you leave your car to get it shipped back to the USA . . or the Customs folks will have it. )
For folks wanting to buy an 1190RS now . . there are provisions on the website:
So there isn't any problem getting an 1190RS ordered . . .
I suspect . . .again PURE SPECULATION on my behalf . . that the dealer network that evolves may be as different as the bikes. If there is one thing that the last 15 years have shown is the influence the dealer network has on the entire customer experience. It hasn't been unique to Buell. Up until about 2 years ago . . I owned and maintained 6 brands of motorcycles. . . . the experience was uniformly spotty with little regard to the brand.
Lessons learned. |
Swampy
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2011 - 07:41 pm: |
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There needs to be a Badweb ID on the pre-order form....
The factory really needs to take advantage of this, I think this internet thing is going to be a hit in the near future..... |
Ohsoslow
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 01:06 pm: |
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dont compare the Desmosedici to the 1190.....i got set on fire and kicked into the snake pit on one of my local bike forums |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 03:08 pm: |
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Dana,
As noted by Phillip, once the rules mandated a $40K limit on retail price, the Desmosedici no longer qualified for Superbike in AMA. Other than price, it qualifies.
>>> lets hope the 1190RS stays glued together also
That would be my biggest concern. Geoff says that he has over a thousand miles on the track on the racing version, so they should have a good handle on that, but its a huge concern. The near bullet proof record of the 1125R and the good record of 1125RR bode well for the 1190, especially since it reportedly runs much more smoothly.
The MV blew up almost everywhere it was raced from what I recall. Not just here, but in Europe too. It was a non-threat in FIM. Pretty bike, powerful bike, fast bike, blows up too easily on the track though.
For racing, the Ducati WSBK (1198cc 1098R) is superior because it has parts support, and actually wins races.
Kevin (Unique ID),
>>> Hey! Nice Buell.
Too funny! |
Bads1
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 03:41 pm: |
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Blake, Yeah a bike that is worth almost double to buy.....enough said. Also meaning most teams including some well funded would find that bike very hard to financially race in parts alone. |
Dannyd
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 04:53 pm: |
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I put in an application today to become a dealer. We'll see what Erik Buell Racing has to say. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 05:15 pm: |
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I was reviewing an old thread about the front wheel/brake on the 1190RS, and ran across this post by Anon (Erik Buell Racing):
"Also, the cast aluminum version of this wheel is about 2.3 lbs heavier, so the total package weight loss is still huge."
This was not commented upon, probably because the thread was basically a pissing match by the time this little gem came out.
To me, this says that the "for us mere mortals" versions of the Erik Buell Racing street bikes that will follow might have these same hubless wheels, but cast in Aluminum.
Wonder where else the cost reductions will come from? Besides suspension and economies of scale, I think those are a given. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 05:17 pm: |
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Wonder where else the cost reductions will come from? Besides suspension and economies of scale, I think that's a given.
I think having the 1190 engine produced on a production line by Rotax will be a huge cost savings. Right now they buy 1125 engines, disassemble, throw away 1/2 the parts, modify the other 1/2, and then reassemble. That would have to be a HUGE cost savings on a production model. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 06:33 pm: |
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>>>>Also meaning most teams including some well funded would find that bike very hard to financially race in parts alone.
That's always been one of the drawbacks of Ducati. I went through that period of time where they hadn't paid their suppliers and all parts were pretty much cut off. Many folks learned to keep lots of spares. I think, now that Texas Pacific Group swapped Ducati Motor Holdings for Burger King and there are some new faces running the place, that things are as good now as they have been in a while.
I'm just enamored with the history of Ducati and the interesting things that they have been through during the years . . . . . it's a company that has been in the dumps and recovered more times than about any I can think of. |
Natexlh1000
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 06:55 pm: |
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I had no idea that there was a $40000 limit to the cost of the bikes.
I was wondering why that four-lunged duck wasn't out there, making music. |
Fireboltwillie
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2011 - 10:20 pm: |
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DannyD, that would be great if you could become a dealer. not that i could buy a bike this year, but it would be nice to have one nearby. |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Saturday, June 25, 2011 - 12:32 am: |
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"...the cast aluminum version of this wheel is about 2.3 lbs heavier..."
By my calculations that means the magnesium wheel weighs about 4.6 lbs and the aluminum wheel weighs about 6.9 lbs (magnesium at about 0.66 lb/in cubed is about two thirds the weight of aluminum at about .098 lbs/in cubed).
That is one very light wheel.
Does anyone doubt that the engineering of the 1190RS is world class?
G |
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