| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Someone . . and I could care less at this point if they are Democrats or Republicans . . . is going to figure out that we, as a country, are in the process of redefining the word "unsustainable". When the Congressional Budget Office issues the official United States government view of the budget and uses words like "daunting" . . if should be a very clear signal. Paying convicted teachers not to teach . . . librarians retiring at 50 on $150,000/yr . . . and 162,000 new federal jobs over $150,000/yr in the last year and the federal government is now paying roughly 31% more than private industry . . . Boeing has to be told where to locate. . . This is going to get good . . . worth a READ  If this thread goes political we can trash it . . . but we are ALL on this boat together . . . | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
I really am starting to think the only way to fix things is to watch it crumble and rebuild it. I pray somebody proves me wrong. But everything being done with great haste, is making things worse. | ||
| Slaughter |
I know, let's just borrow some more money. Every time I need more money, I will just go to the bank and have my credit limit raised... I mean, they surely CAN'T expect me to compromise MY LIFESTYLE can they? Can't make my card payment? No problem, I'll just accept another card offer... good to go! What is the problem? | ||
| Strokizator |
I really am starting to think the only way to fix things is to watch it crumble and rebuild it. Ahh, but that IS the plan. Once it all crumbles, the socialist-progressives can rebuild it without having that inconvenient document known as the constitution blocking their way. There will be such a clamor from the populace for the government to "do something" that nothing short of another revolution will return America to what it once stood for. "If ye love wealth better than liberty, the tranquility of servitude than the animating contest of freedom—go from us in peace. We ask not your counsels or arms. Crouch down and lick the hands which feed you. May your chains sit lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that ye were our countrymen!" - Adams | ||
| Mtjm2 |
NOBODY wants to give up there free lunch . The government was once made up of working people that governed part time . Now its made up of people that work at being reelected full time ,and people whos job is to beg the pig for a spot at the teats. The PIG has dried up , but it offspring are starving . | ||
| Davegess |
I, for one, think the growing income inequality between the worker and the CEO is every bit as unsustainable as our growing debt. You and I are expected to pay our share of getting out of debt but the guy making 10 million a year says his burden is already too high. BS End our very expensive wars and cut our NATO expenditures in half, what does that do to our annual expenses? | ||
| Whisperstealth |
COURT, Your killing me. I'm actually thinking of going back to school, and all your doing is depressing me  Well, WTSHTF maybe being a machinist will be a good survival trade. Maybe blacksmith school? | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
The core of the problem is education, in my opinion. Years ago, our leadership thought it would be a good idea to transfer from a goods-based economy to a services-based economy. So, we let manufacturing go overseas without a fight and still felt warm and fuzzy because we knew we would always have the world's most educated minds to provide services to the rest of the world - financial, legal, support, etc. But then we let the quality of education consistently decline, and now we are looking at an under-educated generation to fill jobs they won't be qualified to do. Even if the money starts flowing again, this will ultimately be our downfall. We are educating our kids enough to build things, but not to provide the services around which our economy is now based. This should get interesting. | ||
| Strokizator |
Just curious Dave, how much should someone making $10 million or more a year pay in income taxes, whether he's Paul Otellini (CEO of Intel) or LeBron James? How much should someone earning $40k a year pay? Or should they get an earned income tax credit - otherwise known as income redistribution. Like I said, just curious. What you or I think will change nothing. | ||
| Fast1075 |
"But not to provide the services around which out economy is based" TRY to find a well qualified and motivated HVAC service technician. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
The core of the problem is education, in my opinion. winner winner chicken dinner. not to mention the family and social dynamics of pride in 'hard' work vs that sissy office work. that too which i know i see a lot here in the south i feel like is the root of the root cause of the decline in education. the way it's always been doesn't exist anymore and there are 2-3 generations of people that cannot or will not understand and accept that fact. as a result of the cultural resistance to change the traction we could have had is gone and we are clawing at anything we can. (Message edited by boogiman1981 on June 22, 2011)} (Message edited by boogiman1981 on June 22, 2011) | ||
| Sifo |
End our very expensive wars and cut our NATO expenditures in half, what does that do to our annual expenses? Very little. I'm not even in complete disagreement with you, but certainly not based on the financial aspect. I just heard that many middle class who retire early may be able to qualify for free health care under the new BO plan. I have to check into that. Sounds like just the ticket along with food stamps that I found out I can qualify for under early retirement. This shit couldn't have been timed better for me! | ||
| Court |
>>>End our very expensive wars and cut our NATO expenditures in half, what does that do to our annual expenses? Nearly nothing . . . which underscores just how much we are squandering here right at home. Don't get me wrong . . . I think we need to find a better way than racing anywhere in the world where some nut waves a saber and trying to instill out values. In the world's, perhaps, most expensive social experiment, we've proven it doesn't work. You can do a lot of diplomacy for $250,000,000 a day. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
It is indeed unsustainable, and the sinking feeling that is creeping up like a bad vertigo after an ill engineered loop de loop like the coaster of death, is approaching in an ever careening tightening noose. When China says no more Credit, no more American Debt (and they will) the jig is up - the game is over, and the house of cards tumbles. And then it gets ugly. Embattled ethnic socio economic clensings are not just a thing of last big war.... they have been happening at regular intervals ever since. I have seen and been deployed to 4 of them. when the 'rich, powerful, enclave' feel threatened, they wont turn on themselves - they will cull the herd and thin the 'liabilities'. Bosnia, Kosovo, Herzegovena, Yugoslavia - and maybe if Russia keeps it up a new round of cleaning in Georgia - the wolf is closer to the door than you are ready to admit. Y'all still aint read the healthcare bill....its ok, neither has your senator/rep that SIGNED their name to it. There is no greater example of Taxation without Representation. The nice thing about living in a third world economy.... when it all crashes - and it will; there is already nothing there to loose. | ||
| Davegess |
I don't have a solution but our wealth despairity is growing and I don't think this is helping us as a country. It causes a lot of problems when the guy at the top makes so much more than the guy on the line. What we do about it? That is a good question. As for the defense budget, you guys really don't think we can't drop a trillion off that? I don't see how we reduce the deficit by large numbers without reducing all of the big three on spending. | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
City - How is the healthcare an example of taxation without representation? I think you kind of kill your own claim when you say our senators/reps signed their names to it. That pretty much means that officials, which we elected to represent us, adopted the bill. So, even if it is taxation, it certain isn't without representation. | ||
| Thumper74 |
He's saying that they didn't read what they signed. Didn't Mike Rowe talk about the lack of skilled trades in the US now? He said something along the lines of a plumber costing as much as a trip to the doctor soon? Me? I'm working on more ASE certifications and possibly a move in diesel stuff in a few years, plus a Spanish as a second language. Oh, and possibly a new, high cap firearm or two. | ||
| Blake |
Dave, >>> I don't have a solution but our wealth disparity is growing, and I don't think this is helping us as a country. It causes a lot of problems when the guy at the top makes so much more than the guy on the line. The difference in the incomes of the wealthiest folks versus the least paid laborers is a problem? It's greater now than ever before? Are you sure of that or are you believing what the Marxists say? What did Carnegie earn a year? I don't like what I view as over-compensated CEOs, but I'm not seeing the major problem(s) that it creates for the nation. Please explain. The entire defense budget doesn't add up to a trillion dollars. You want gov't to create jobs, then the defense department is about the only way they can really truly do so. More weapons requirements creates jobs. More military equipment and logistics and support creates jobs. More military personnel creates jobs. We just have to pay for it. | ||
| Blake |
The whole drama over "income disparity" is nothing but Marxist class warfare. Demonize the wealthy. Who pays the vastly greater portion in income tax Dave, someone earning $20K or someone earning $20,000,000? I'm more outraged that nearly half of wage earners pay zero income tax. That is despicable. You live here, you ought to contribute. Most of those then get free money from the fed gov't. It's beyond the pail. | ||
| Fahren |
Anyone who spins this as a red vs. blue debate is missing the point entirely, and playing right into the hands of those who would divide us, disempower us, rob our wealth and leave us, as one poster above said, to beg the government to "please do something to fix this" (enter: Tyranny). Davegess is right on, but it's not about how much you tax the uber-rich (see how most major corporations get out of taxes altogether and even receive tax money back). It's about holding the "too big to fail" banks accountable for the strip-mining of the US and global economies for their own benefit. No bail outs. No taxpayer funding to cover their bad risks, while they reap all benefit. In Greece, Ireland, soon in Portugal, Spain and Italy, we are getting a preview of coming attractions for us here in the States . Only in Iceland have the People stood up and refused to let the international banks strip them of their assets and impose Austerity Measures. The Iclandic people have said NO to the British and German and Dutch bankers. No, we will not bend over and take it, this "bailout plan" you are so generously "offering" us. All the banks wanted to do was scoop up some good loot (buy public assets and demand debt payments in the country's gold) before finally saddling the insolvent, sacked countries with, you guessed it: more debt, with no real hope of those economies ever growing out of their pit of despair to be able to service the now-even-huger debt. Don't think for a second the IMF and the corporate banks it supports aren't coming soon to a theater near you. It's not just "over there, in those weak countries." This country, here, the US, is insolvent. Time to be rid of the Fed, be rid of the entire left and right politicians, all of whom (except Ron Paul, Dennis Kucinich and maybe a couple of others) are doing the big money's bidding, 100%. There is no way we can "grow" our way out of this one, as we have done up to now. Bigger things must change. But don't go off about how it's "them illegals stealing the jobs," or bickering over whether to tax the rich a bit more or to make further cuts to entitlements. These are distractions, meant to keep us divided and therefore weak. Now I've gone and gotten Badweb tagged as a subversive web site, an enemy of the State. Sorry for that. | ||
| Sifo |
As for the defense budget, you guys really don't think we can't drop a trillion off that? I have my doubts that you can chop a trillion our of a 685 billion budget. I'll let you explain how that will work though.  | ||
| Sifo |
Fahren, Please correct me if I'm wrong here, but are you suggesting that the US should, as Iceland is doing, default on our debt? | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Too many people is the problem. You "cut" government spending and you have too many people out of work. What are they going to do? Build American TV's? Build American cars? Work at an American textile industry? Work in a packing plant? Farm? Build highways? Work in a steel plant? Too many government workers don't know how to work/actually produce something! And if they did,who is going to buy their products.....unless you tax/ban imports. How are you going to fix that with out reducing the population by 100 million or so? We ants are screwed into keeping the grasshoppers in food and shelter. | ||
| Court |
>>>>The whole drama over "income disparity" is nothing but Marxist class warfare. Demonize the wealthy. You read that differently than I did. I thought it was a clarion call for the poor to get off their asses, get an education and earn more. Isn't it better to lift the less fortunate than to diminish those with greater material wealth? I mean . . I'd rather raise the average standard of living rather than just herd the cats to the middle. >>>Anyone who spins this as a red vs. blue debate is missing the point entirely I agree 100%. Gads . . listening to Ben Bernanke today and he basically said "the fed has done all we can do". Trying to lower interest rates below 0% won't work. The CBO report basically said . . . the shit is hitting the fan much hard, much faster and doing much more damage that we, in our wildest previous projections, ever guessed. We are racing toward the most predictable and foreseeable economic shit storm imaginable. There is no excuse for smart folks to not act. . . this is like having a 5 year warning of a tornado. Within view . . for the first time . . is a situation wherein if you take ALL the money (sell all the real estate and seize all the wealth) it will still far short of paying down the debt. A good deal of this started when the government started meddling in private business and threatening to penalize banks if they didn't make loans to poor credit risks. Government has a role in regulating business but no business dictating (watch what is about to happen with Boeing) how a business operates as long as it's legal. My only comfort comes from the fact that Americans take this crap for a long time but have a record of acting . . in addition I see a couple bright spots and can easily picture one of the greatest periods of economic expansion just beyond the horizon. It'll be interesting to see how this plays out | ||
| Ezblast |
The difference in the incomes of the wealthiest folks versus the least paid laborers is a problem? It's greater now than ever before? Are you sure of that or are you believing what the Marxists say? What did Carnegie earn a year? That's what my latest edition business text book says with proof and stats - pointing out the last depression had simular points. EZ | ||
| Buellkowski |
The Office of Management & Budget, the Federal Reserve, and the Congressional Budget Office have been using words like "unsustainable" and "daunting" for years, yet we seem to be sustaining. Why hasn't the "house of cards" fallen already? Because we're still the world's best bet. We produce, innovate, and solve problems like no one else. Our debt continues to be financed because of The Market's confidence in our nation's economic depth, breadth, and resilience. Has that confidence been shaken recently? Absolutely. Is that a reason to believe that our system/economy is broken beyond repair? I don't think so. Yes, we borrow a lot, but we also make & sell a lot (#1 GDP in the world in 2010). That's what separates the USA from a country like Greece, whose situation is dire and whose options are limited. We still have the ability to sell our economic ideas and capabilities as marketable and achievable. And we deliver, so The Market keeps buying our bonds as a safe place to keep the world's riches. If the time comes when we borrow more than we produce, or when we completely run out of new ideas & innovations, that'll the time to panic. See Greece, Italy, and Japan below... Public debt as a % of 2009 GDP...  (Message edited by buellkowski on June 22, 2011) | ||
| Ezblast |
Posted in my class - he did a better job of detailing (I'm more of an outline guy - lol) - It is I he is agreeing with: I totally agree with what you wrote about globalization. It dose have a negative effect on our economy. There really is no reason why the American work force cant build, make or grow anything that the world has to offer. It would strengthen our economy ten fold; we would be on top of the world again. But as you said; sad as it is it is because of corporate greed. In an attempt to make a quick buck the men in suites will shut down factories and bye from a third world country. I read a few of the other students primary responses to the topic and the main point that seemed to come up is that it helps the world economy but I live in the united states not in some third world county on the other side of the planet. Buying products from other countries that we can produce is very antithetical. It is sad that big business isn’t more patient if they pushed production in the United States they may not make as much money today but in the long run they would make it back. A country needs a good foundation and the best one I can think of is a strong and healthy work force. I am not saying that we should cut the rest of the world off but we should buy what we can make here. There is a lot of fluctuation in our economy because we are a consumer nation. We have everything we need here to be the strongest economy in the world again. I read something a while back about California having the fifth strongest economy in the world ha I wonder what it is ranked now. Also I think that we should stop giving money away to other countries at least until we no longer have such a huge deficit. He's not alone in this, and the funny thing is my class is 9/10ths foreign exchange students, and they of course think globalization is terrific, however, the Americans in the class all share my point of view, because you can see how it isn't helping America. EZ | ||
| Sifo |
Buellkowski, Your data is quite out of date. Normally I wouldn't make too much of an issue of 2 year old data on this sort of thing, but here's where we are now...  So since 2009 we have gone from less that 60% debt to GDP to 97%. See the problem with the direction and rate of change yet? | ||
| Ezblast |
Court - its just basic economics - if the rich have all the money, and the rest have little to none, then no one can spend, even for the things we need, let alone want - no commie plot on that point - just a fact. The trick - which has been pulled off a few times as our economy reflects - is to have those rich re-invest their money back into America, instead of abroad. Thus putting money back into the pockets of the average American, where it can do our economy some good. EZ | ||
| Sifo |
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