| Author | Message | ||
     Gregtonn |
First you say: "I won't ever watch or read coverage of the event again." Then you say: "Odds are that four people will die due to racing at IOM this year. One already has. It happens EVERY year. It's despicable." If the first is true how would you know that? You can't have it both ways. Seems you have been outed. G | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Blake, Thanks for shitting on another thread.. Well done sir! | ||
| Trojan |
How many will die and be maimed this year? Average is four dead per year since 1990. I was wondering how long it would take for you to roll out that old chestnut  2 guys have been killed in sidecar practice this week. However the rider/driver (aged 67) has been racing in the IOM TT and Manx EVERY year since 1969. The passenger since 1984. How many thousands of racing miles does this add up to? Both guys knew the risks unvolved and the possible penalties when it goes wrong. Neither they nor their families would appreciate a lecture on how dangerous the TT is. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Blake, I'm with Ian and Greg on this one. >>>How many will die and be maimed this year? Average is four dead per year since 1990. What a great sporting event. - That is and was the first shot. It was a sarcastic comment that conveyed some disdain. You followed it up with: >>>Why? Because they aren't talented enough to compete on the really big stage and so jeopardize their lives to compete on a smaller one? Beyond lame in my view. - A clear slap in the face. Talent aside, maybe it is a race the racers love, and would do anyway. Maybe some of the big stage riders would do it, but are under contract restrictions not to. Doesn't matter, it was a cheap shot in my book. >>>The whole daredevil worship deal is bizarre to me; it seems like a gross misplacement of priorities. Life is a priceless gift. Wildly jeopardizing it like IOM contestants do for the sake of what amounts to a frivolous sporting contest is very unfortunate. - Just because it doesn't fit in with your personal and moral code, doesn't mean is wrong. Or that it is frivolous. Perhaps they feel a freedom by risking it all, that makes the rest of their lives sweeter, and more enjoyable. Perhaps coming close to death, makes them realize how wonderful life is. Or maybe they just have a death wish period. But that is THEIR right, their life, their choice. Sure you note: "that I've not ever said one word about ending the event." Then go on to call it despicable. That's an extremely passive aggressive contradiction. You can argue semantics, but the bottom line is your words indicate would like to see the race done away with. You have crapped on this thread. If you have stated your disdain for this event in the past, why the need to do it again. Why the need to push your negative thoughts about the event onto a thread started by someone who likes the race. You can do better. | ||
| Glitch |
With that attitude, how could one justify ever riding a motorcycle. Damn near 5000 deaths in the states last year, compared with how many racing deaths last year? | ||
| Trojan |
>>>Why? Because they aren't talented enough to compete on the really big stage and so jeopardize their lives to compete on a smaller one? A lot of top racers from BSB do the island every year, but there are roads specialists that the IOM IS their Big Event (and to suggest that the IOM is NOT a big stage is lame in itself). The Isle of Man is THE road racing event of the racing year. Certain racers such as Bruce Anstey do very little else but the TT. Most of the 'talented' racers you infer have visited the IOM and won't race there because they admit they are not brave enough (including Rossi and Lorenzo!). They have the utmost respct for those that do race there. | ||
| Glitch |
What changed since 2007? | ||
| Slaughter |
Glitch - good point about moto-riding of all sorts. Let's reduce risk as far as possible. I think the comfy chair competition (Monty Python sponsorship) might catch on. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
whoa, I just had a case of deja vu...... | ||
| Fast1075 |
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| 03fatboy |
I am not sure of the schedule this year, but last year if I remember right it was in late summer early fall when it came on HDTheater on DirecTV. I look forward to the coverage as well. | ||
| Tachout |
not talented enough for the big stage ? i think MR.surtees,agostini and the late great mike hailwood.would beg to differ. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I don't follow the political threads, but I have to ask the question--is Blake a left winger or what? | ||
| 86129squids |
"I don't follow the political threads, but I have to ask the question--is Blake a left winger or what?"   I would LOVE to attend the IOM one year- way too much interesting stuff, UNPARALLELED racing- even the new electric bikes racing... Waiting for that magic lottery ticket... | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I would LOVE to attend the IOM one year +1. Unfortunately, it comes at an awful time of year for me work-wise. Maybe the Baja 1000?? That would be cool. | ||
| Macbuell |
Blake starts this argument every year. Nothing ever changes so why keep rehashing it over and over again? Maybe to drive bandwidth? | ||
| Reindog |
You guys are overreacting. Blake expressed his opinion and you jumped him. He didn't try to circumsize you. I, too, would like to attend IOM but his point about race safety is spot on. There is a difference between Dakar and IOM. IOM is on a populated island with villages and lots of spectators. There appears to be minimal concern for the safety of racer and spectator alike. Dakar is the Andes and/or the desert and the racer assumes more than usual risk by participating. Kinda like the difference between dirt biking and sport riding. If I am not falling on a dirt bike, then I am not riding hard enough. Not true on my Buell. | ||
| Buellkowski |
To clarify: I count 41 IOMTT competitor deaths since 1990 (including this year's two). That makes an average of 2 deaths per year since 1990. In fact, the IOMTT has averaged 2 competitor deaths per year over its entire history. The Manx GP accounts for the other two deaths per year on average (since 1990) at IOM. Dakar appears to average less than one competitor death per year. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>> He didn't try to circumsize you.<< Anybody need a fan belt? | ||
| Fast1075 |
"Need a fan belt?" | ||
| Slaughter |
Post count bump | ||
| Blake |
Greg,
Seems your interpretation of "coverage" is odd or at least different from mine. I read about the deaths in this very thread, a discussion/conversation, not an article or report in a magazine covering the event. Glad I could clarify that for you as it seems that you are very interested in talking about me personally. Maybe you should start a fan club instead though and avoid turning any disagreement with my opinion(s) into a personal discussion about me. It looks at first glance that you may have others here who are willing join.  Ian, >>> Blake, Thanks for shitting on another thread.. Well done sir! I shared my opinion. Last I looked, I am free to do so here. You don't like it, then avoid the place. Don't care to discuss the issue, then avoid posting about it. It's incredibly simple to do. It just takes a modicum of intelligence and self-control. Matt,
Thanks for the update. Two already. Very tragic. As I've said countless times before, I fully support the right of folks to participate in the race. I strongly oppose commercialization of the race. I'm not intending to lecture any family or friends of those suffering tragedy at IOM. My only point is to join in the conversation while offering an opposing point of view and expressing my own personal opinion on the matter. That's all.  Four dead per year is not what I'd characterize as "an old chestnut", more a horrific statistic for what is becoming an ever more commercialized event. It is shameful that people are so eager to make money from such a tragic bloody event. >>> Most of the 'talented' racers you infer have visited the IOM and won't race there because they admit they are not brave enough (including Rossi and Lorenzo!). They have the utmost respect for those that do race there. I respect the racers too. I don't respect those looking to cash in on their exploits. I'd not say that those choosing not to participate "are not brave enough". I'd say they aren't foolish enough. Of course they'd never say that out of politeness. When Gilberto Parlotti was killed during the 1972 TT, Giacomo Agostini announced that he would never again race on the Isle of Man. Why? Gabriel (Whisperstealth), Thanks for your thoughtful comments. You are dead on right, I do harbor disdain for the type of people who are exploiting the event for major commercial profit or government economic growth. I think it is downright despicable. Yes, I used sarcasm. So? I was communicating my opinion of the event. I think it is horrible and should be identified for what it really is, a blood sport event.
I was asking another poster here why "real-road racers will always get (his) respect" and why "they truly are a breed apart." . My comments you quote above speak only to that, viewing daredevils as some kind of heroes. It's just a really dumb reason to put someone on a pedestal in my view. Just my opinion though. >>> - Just because it doesn't fit in with your personal and moral code, doesn't mean is wrong or that it is frivolous. That says nothing as the converse is also true. It is also true that besides violating my own personal moral code, there are other reasons why putting one's life in significant jeopardy for mere sport may b e considered wrong and frivolous. But my strong objection is not against that; I object to the commercialization of the event. >>> Perhaps they feel a freedom by risking it all, that makes the rest of their lives sweeter, and more enjoyable. Perhaps coming close to death, makes them realize how wonderful life is. Or maybe they just have a death wish period. >>> But that is THEIR right, their life, their choice. Sure you note: "that I've not ever said one word about ending the event." Then go on to call it despicable. That's an extremely passive aggressive contradiction. No, it isn't. I can oppose something while supporting the right to do it. It's no different than opposing the ideas that someone may state while supporting the right for them to voice those ideas. >>> You can argue semantics, but the bottom line is your words indicate would like to see the race done away with. It's not semantics as I've made my point crystal clear in every discussion I've ever had on the issue. I support the right for folks to race if they like. I oppose the commercialization of the event and would absolutely like to see that commercialization and government promotion come to an end. No more coverage, no sponsorships, no broadcast contracts, no more IOM government initiatives to promote it, etc. That's all. You can do better understanding my point of view I think. It is not semantics. >>> You have crapped on this thread. If you have stated your disdain for this event in the past, why the need to do it again. Why the need to push your negative thoughts about the event onto a thread started by someone who likes the race. Why the need to discuss/oppose anything ever? I've stated in other discussion of the issue why I'm so adamant about voicing my opinion. I had no idea. I was once a supporter of the event and honestly had no idea of the horrible record of death and dismemberment the event entailed. I was angry at my own ignorance and I don't want anyone else to fall into the same trap. Surely without a counter view to the even, others may fall into the very same trap. Whenever the event is discussed, it's terrible record needs to be included. To not do so, to try to gloss over it is irresponsible in my view. >>> You can do better. Probably so. You can as well. Dave (Glitch), >>> With that attitude, how could one justify ever riding a motorcycle? The relative magnitude of risk is pertinent. If on average four out of every thousand motorcycle riders crashed and died every two weeks, you might have a point. The statistics just don't compare. >>> near 5000 deaths in the states last year, compared with how many racing deaths last year? Surely you understand why that type of magnitude only comparison is not valid in assessing relative risk. Try using time factored percentages. 5,000/5,000,000 = 0.001 = 0.1% per 52 weeks If run for 52 weeks rather than the four weeks encompassing the IOM TT and Manx competitions, the IOM death rate would compare as follows: 4/300*52/4 = 0.173 = 17.3% One hundred and seventy-three times greater than for public motorcycle riding. Factor out motorcycle deaths due to no helmet (over 700) and those involving alcohol (a full third of all motorcycle fatalities) and the difference just becomes even more stark. (5,000 - 700) * 2/3 / 5,000,000 = 0.00057 = 0.057% 17.3/0.057 = 304 times more likely to die racing at IOM versus riding sober with a helmet in public in America. >>> What changed since 2007? I learned the truth about the event. I had no idea in 2007 of the horrific death toll and carnage exacted by the event. If I had, I'd never have supported the effort or allowed BadWeb to be used to do so. Tom (Tachout), >>> not talented enough for the big stage ? i think MR.surtees,agostini and the late great mike hailwood.would beg to differ. We are discussing the current event, not ancient history, and Agostini himself vowed to never again race at IOM, sparking the elimination of the circuit from MotoGP due to its horrific danger and death toll. Brad (squids), >>> UNPARALLELED racing It's a time trial. Not my idea of "unparalleled" when it comes to racing. I think most fans are drawn by the thrill of the danger rather than any excitement of competition. It's a mostly a daredevil spectacle, not much more. Two dead this year already, first day of the event. Oh boy, let's go watch? Really? I just don't get it.  Harlan (Fresno), >>> I don't follow the political threads, but I have to ask the question--is Blake a left winger or what? That kind of outragous personal insult can get you banned and cursed by a gypsy Count amigo. Again, I support the right to race as folks wish. I oppose the commercialization of the event so long as it is so outrageously dangerous. (Message edited by blake on June 03, 2011) | ||
| Glitch |
I should have expected you to bring a calculator  | ||
| Sirvait |
After reading the whole thread.... I've got to ask, Blake do you see any way to improve the event so that spectators can enjoy it while at the same time taking steps to improve safety on the course? | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Blake, Your arguments are sound. And valid to a certain degree. I still believe your using semantics, and do in many of your opinions/debates - But that in itself could be debated at length as well... But after your initial post, are more comments necessary? And after your second, Why not just let if go at that. Your desire to defend yourself, get the truth out, and hammer your point home, comes at the cost of alienating your self unnecessarily. Once you separate and create a divide between yourself and others, you lose the ability to effectively communicate your message. You can state your case, without the added venom of negative additives, and leave it at that. You could have also stated some positives of the race. How it was once truly great in your opinion, and how it could get back to that. How with a addition of some safety requirements, the race would be much better for all, and the economic boost to the IOM could continue without as much loss of life. But you didn't do that. Instead, you spit on the event, and upset those that like it. Standing your ground is a good thing. Pissing on someone else's isn't. And that's how you come off to many. Peace. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"Seems your interpretation of "coverage" is odd or at least different from mine. I read about the deaths in this very thread, a discussion/conversation, not an article or report in a magazine covering the event." So, you are only interested in the ugly bits, not the competition. Obviously our tastes are opposed. "...it seems that you are very interested in talking about me personally." Not at all. I prefer those of the opposite sex, greater intelligence and less interest in their own ego. G | ||
| Nm5150 |
I will probably regret this but....I bought all of my bikes for the need for speed and being able to lean over and feel the tires working hard to keep me on the road.I don't ride like that most of the time and when I do it would be great if I was on a safe track and all but there is something to be said for running on a real road.So the IOM is a time trial.So what!?When I really want to get to it I am only racing myself anyway.My best with my bike in my mind.Nothing else matters.I am fortunate to live where there are some great roads and if they would block them off to traffic once a year and let me go I don't care who made money off it I would be there with a prepped bike and some good rubber to spend some quality time with myself and if I wadded it up when they pried my helmet off they would find a smile on my dead face and the rest of the world could kiss my ass.Some people my not understand my solitude in such danger but I don't expect them to.I don't even ask fot their respect but just to be left alone.So is the IOM.Those guys race(IMHO) for the same reason I suit up early on Sunday morning.No traffic and good roads on a great bike.The only differance is that they get recognized for it and rightfully so.As far as Blake goes,You can't make chicken soup out of chicken crap.Now go do what makes you happy as long as it does not infringe on the rights of others and don't rain on my parade.And thank you to the men that have given me that right! | ||
| Gregtonn |
Wow! Now there someone who gets it! I have never heard it explained better. Thank you Doug. G | ||
| Blake |
Greg, You say one thing, but your behavior indicates otherwise. Leave me alone or start a fan club. Stick to the issue or go find a gossip forum to get your jollies. >>> So, you are only interested in the ugly bits, not the competition. Obviously our tastes are opposed. Poor reading comprehension is a tough affliction. Keep trying; someday proficiency will come. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"Poor reading comprehension is a tough affliction." I suppose it is. Perhaps you would know. I have never experienced it. G |
