| Author | Message | ||
     Notpurples2 |
Blake, From that subject matter of that link I still see problems. If a person is born and raised in a religion other than Christianity and is a good person they will still, if christianity is true, go to Hell for worshiping false gods. And if they do hear of Jesus they will definately go to hell if they stick to what they know and just deny Jesus. And a big portion of that argument you linked to rests on the belief that all people know of god simply by thier nature. Basically that you are born knowing god. I don't believe that. I believe that god and religion are a meme. also are you going to unfreeze my account or will i have to continue to break BadWeB rules inorder to continue our discussion? | ||
| Notpurples2 |
Spidey, Nice Quote! | ||
| Blake |
Slaughter, >>> I am an atheist - Blake KNOWS this. I am NOT anti-Christian and as such am willing to respect other folks' beliefs (though STILL make fun of them) WHAT??? I thought all this time you were "a theist"!  Remember the Jesus light switch? It is hilarious. I truly appreciate you Steve and am blessed to know you. Thanks for your thoughtful contributions. | ||
| Blake |
Ian (Americanmadexb), You've dodged my question. You say that "i really don't wanna hear it, I'm done hearing it, and you can move on..." You chose to engage the discussion; it clearly related to religious issues, thought from the start nothing serious, just light-hearted banter all in fun. If you truly don't care to hear it, then why are you participating in the thread and attacking people, insulting them, and degrading their beliefs? You called Christians "mouth breathers" and degraded the name of Jesus. >>> BTW, 1125 is better then the M2.. Is that wrong too b/c i don't think what you think?? It's not unacceptable to believe differently. That is what tolerance is all about. What is unacceptable, what is clearly stated on our terms of use, our "Rules", is intentionally sowing derision and malicious personal attack, you know, like calling people "mouth breathers" or degrading that which many hold very dearly. >>> I am left to wonder why the discussion of Religion is even allowed at this point? Free speech?? Sure... Actually no, not free speech, not here, not ever; refer to our rules for clarification. If you were to say "thoughtful and respectful free speech" then I might agree.  >>> but only in the confines of what is deemed "acceptable" by the mighty power that holds the ban hammer. Correct with clarifications that loss of posting privileges, not full on banning, was the action taken wrt Curtis; I've discussed the issue above (see my latest post to Andy) and admitted some error in judgment myself in handling it. Also there are a collection of folks kind enough to donate their free time towards the largely thankless effort of maintaining the place. I'm just one of them. >>> This is a motorcycle forum and we are all adults with the ability to express what we feel. Free speech right? Having strong feelings is fine, expressing those feelings in the confines of the rules is fine. Or so I thought. When you take on the responsibility of providing a open forum for discussions, you must allow those discussions to freely take place, without your beliefs getting in the way. Are you allowed to have an opinion? Sure. Should anyone of been banned from what went on this thread? No. People holding beliefs and opinions that differ from yours does not make them "wrong." I agree with you but with my prior clarifications concerning "free speech" and banning. Ian, The only issue is that you apparently have a much different threshold for what you view as unacceptable behavior, what you deem offensive, meaning what constitutes an actionable violation of our rules. Your own behavior speaks to that. The same is true among all the custodians here. We all have different thresholds and being human they can vary from day to day. Expecting our management of the forum to always coincide with what you or any one person might agree with is unrealistic. All we ask is that you respect our efforts. Your outrageous tirade was not what I'd call respectful. Glad to see you've regained your normal thoughtful demeanor. So again, how about actually really answering that question? You'd be the first to do so. | ||
| Xbniner |
As a Christian, I just want to apologize to everyone for the way this has gone. This is why followers of Christ have such a bad reputation. As somebody said about a page ago, it gets ugly on both sides. Blake refuted this, saying only the "anti-christian bigots" are the ones always starting it. I find the opposite true, but even if it is 50/50- shame on us. We should be held to a higher standard. I for one am tired of the hate. Apparently the whole "treat others as you would be treated" is a truly maddening message for some. Agreed. We (Christians) are supposed to be loving people, but apparently we think people want to be judged, condemned, belittled, and censored. That doesn't sound anything like Jesus. Once again, I'm sorry we can't have an enlightening discussion without people drawing lines in the sand. Anybody who wants to know more about what it means to follow Jesus, know that there are people in this world who love God, but are actually more concerned with "bringing heaven to earth" than being right. If you want some reading material from Christians who use logic, reason, and love (as well as being humble enough to not pretend to have it all figured out) instead of talking points and judgment, check out these books: C.S. Lewis (Mere Christianity, The Great Divorce) Rob Bell (Velvet Elvis, Love Wins) Donald Miller (Blue like Jazz) | ||
| Danger_dave |
8.09am on the 21st here now. All well. | ||
| Blake |
Andy, >>> As for post deleting I don't know if that occurs or not but if it does it's a shame. Only for those that constitute serious violations of our terms of use. I don't suspect that you are suggesting that we leave all posts, no matter their content. And in truth, we don't delete them. We move them out of public view. They are all still there. >>> Otherwise i believe it violates one of those constitutional rights that i keep hearing about. Not so much. I we wanted, we could mandate that only posts praising krishna are acceptable here. This isn't the public square. >>> I realize this is a private entity but sheesh thats just un American. Show me a web forum where any/all posts are allowed to remain. It doesn't exist anywhere that I know. | ||
| Blake |
Jeff (Stirz007), >>> It's OK to denigrate Islam, but not Christianity - both are religions of love, That is a very debatable claim, but that is another thread for another time. I do agree that it is not okay to denigrate anyone. I don't agree that it is denigrating to raise tough questions, quote the koran, question the recorded actions and behavior of mohomod, and expose the record of history wrt islamism. >>> We mortals are so arrogant as to think we have it all figured out (What GOD really meant was....) and some of us purport to speak for GOD - that's what scares me and relates to the earlier premise of the string: The May 21st Rapture Excellent observation. I agree. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Blake i was mostly joking i thought the sheesh would convey that. As i said in a later post i do not always come across well. Oh and as for the deleting. I would absolutely delete things. However i would not have deleted anything i saw on this thread. Even the stupid zombie pic | ||
| Danger_dave |
8:25 - All well. Slight stiffness in left achilles. Hair needs washing. Doogle asleep. | ||
| Davegess |
Danger, the bible said 6pm EDT in the USA. They didn't know about NZ back then. | ||
| Blake |
Curtis, >>> From that subject matter of that link I still see problems. If a person is born and raised in a religion other than Christianity and is a good person... Whoa amigo. Please define what constitutes "a good person." >>> they will still, if christianity is true, go to Hell for worshiping false gods. I'll leave that up to god. You seem to be rebelling against not the bible or Christianity, but a certain sect and belief of some. You'll have to make a case from scripture, which I'm not seeing. I'm only seeing emotional arguments against a straw man of your own invention. Yes, I realize that some folks do believe as you say. Okay, so you disagree with them. But that is not the issue. >>> And if they do hear of Jesus they will definately go to hell if they stick to what they know and just deny Jesus. D'UH! Deny god and end up separated from god. Go figure. >>> And a big portion of that argument you linked to rests on the belief that all people know of god simply by their nature. Basically that you are born knowing god. I don't believe that. Well that is a core tenet of Christianity, the existence of the holy spirit. >>> I believe that god and religion are a meme. So then you are an atheist? LOL. It finally comes out. Oh brother. Very convincing logical scholarly arguments exist that refute your view of god and religion as a meme. It seems that you don't really care about the truth or not of Christianity or the Bible, but more that you think the Bible is a pack of invented lies. That is a very tough case to make, impossible really in a scholarly setting. >>> also are you going to unfreeze my account or will i have to continue to break BadWeB rules in order to continue our discussion? If you agree to avoid degrading Jesus and insulting the faith of Christians, sure. Like I said earlier, how would you like it if someone posted deeply degrading caricatures of your father or mother? You may not hold Jesus Christ dearly to your heart as you do a father or mother, but lots of folks indeed do. Please try to keep that in mind. | ||
| 86129squids |
Thanks for the heads-up, DD! Had a good, short day of work at my new job, now it all about the honeydo's and getting ready for the GF's art show tomorrow AM- then off to the grand opening BBQ! Sorry, brains still not on the menu, but I'll ask about the Okra!!!  | ||
| Danger_dave |
Almost 9.00am and I need to do a bit of work. I'll let you know the moment anything starts to ha | ||
| Blake |
XBNiner, I can be as dense as a rock sometimes. >>> As a Christian, I just want to apologize to everyone for the way this has gone. This is why followers of Christ have such a bad reputation. Would you please elaborate? Why are you apologizing to "everyone"?  For what? I think for the most part this thread has gone very well with LOTS of thoughtful discussion and some very welcome humor. What's a cubit? (Thanks for that Danger Dave.) Take away the insensitive zombie nonsense, my indignant rebuttal, and the bizarre hateful outbursts following, and it's a pretty amazingly composed discussion. That said, I'd not deny that I'm a work in progress, far from perfect. For any thoughtful discussion there must always be lines drawn. I'm bewildered that you don't recognize that. How may one help bring heaven down to earth if one fails to oppose obstructions and obfuscations to the effort? Great to have you join the discussion. It's never too late to turn it around. | ||
| Blake |
Danger Dave said... "I'll let you know the moment anything starts to ha" Does anyone know if there is a patron saint of danger? There may be one now. | ||
| Danger_dave |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dionysus | ||
| Slaughter |
Does it really make it easier to fart if I lift a cheek? | ||
| Blake |
Owens, >>> To attack someone, like you say to do, If I said that, I was wrong. I don't think I did. I'm advocating for opposing bad behavior, not attacking people. >>> You're OK with Christians saying whatever they want, but say something against Christianity and they should be shamed and attacked? Come on dude... I think you've misread and I've possibly partly mis-spoke. I've never held that I'm "OK with Christians saying whatever they want" but that those who "say something against Christianity ... should be shamed and attacked." What I said was that "If you see someone posting content that is deeply degrading and offensive to folks who hold their faith and belief very dear, then have the balls to call them out and tell them they are out of line. You can be part of the solution. That goes for anyone, Christians attacking atheists, wiccans, muslims, whatever. It is the hate and derision that must be shamed, the bad behavior is shameful and must be called out, not the person. Admittedly it can be a blurry line. | ||
| Brumbear |
As an American I try to keep my religion to myself it's my right, I am a Christian and I don't care if you worship mushroom asses I won't bash you might kid ya a bit but I won't bash you. If you hate me and rise against me I will do my best to avoid a problem but if you really want the bull I got the horns. I just want my patch of grass to roll in thats all. | ||
| Daves |
Hey DaveG, they also didn't know about the USA back in the Bible days? So we should be safe too. | ||
| Danger_dave |
9.30 - False alarm. Doogle woke up and started chewing me. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>Does it really make it easier to fart if I lift a cheek?<< Depends whose cheek. | ||
| Blake |
Chris, >>> Not to get on your bad side here, but really "facts" are an entirely relative term when you are talking about a book that has morphed countless times in the last 2000 years. Really? That's news to me. Are you not aware that we have thousands of actual copies of the ancient manuscripts readily available such that any translation may be rigorously compared to the most original the ancient manuscripts? What this means is that if ANY translation of scripture is doubtful (for ANY reason) such translation may readily be compared with available ancient original language manuscript copies so as to assess its accuracy. That said, I'm interested in which facts have you found that are contradictory between different translations and which are also troubling to the major aspects of biblical narrative? Having looked into the issue, the oft heard claim as you have asserted is in truth completely hollow. But if you have credible substantive evidence that shows changes over time to the important meaning of biblical narrative, I'd very much welcome seeing it. Be careful drawing from anti-god, or anti-bible type web sites, they are notoriously lacking in scholarly integrity, some are outright deceptive. >>> IF that book was anything other than the bible you would dismiss it as fable or tall tales. Making a referral to the Epic of Gilgamesh. I disagree. But I'm not sure what you mean by "that book" as the Bible is composed of at least 66 different books of various periods and authors. It kinda sounds like you are saying that if they weren't significant to a religious faith, they would not be significant to a religious faith. Okay, I agree. But that's a straw man. (Message edited by blake on May 20, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Brumbear, >>> I just want my patch of grass to roll in that's all. Hold on now! What kind of grass are you talking about? Anything but nice soft perennial rye, or fescue, or good ol' Kentucky Bluegrass is an abomination. | ||
| Blake |
Tony, You missed the small print:  | ||
| Danger_dave |
Hugh actually rides a Bonneville. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
Whoa there Blake. You sound way to happy with your assumption of what I think. I think you're assuming since I used th term Meme I'm a Dawkins disciple or something. Honestly I didn't know that he coined that term till I googled it. I know it best as a term for internet.... well meme's. I understood it to be a common known that is passed from one person to another with no clearly identifiable source. Demotivational Posters or "Fail!" pictures. I've never "studied atheism" or necessarily aligned myself with atheist arguments. I just see a lot of holes in what I was taught. Honestly I've never read the Bible cover to cover. I did do plenty of reading of it in bible study as a kid. But seeing how I would have rather been outside playing I don't remember it all. I was baptisied because everyone else at bible camp was getting baptisied.I've never felt this inherit knowledge of god that you speak of. All I know and "believed" as a kid was taught. Getting older it started making less and less sense until yes the bible now resembles more of a big fairy tale than any "truth". I don't devote that much time to this kind of... stuff. If anything I'd say I'm an agnostic who is "mostly" atheist, I'd be surprised if there was a god but I won't rule it out. I'm damn near certain that the Christian god is fictional. | ||
| Daves |
"That goes for anyone, Christians attacking atheists, wiccans, muslims, whatever" Now don't ANY of you guys go attacking "Whatever" I like her. I will kick your ass  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
just sold a couple of guns at exorbitant prices because of 'rapture' paranoia .... and a flat of ammo. it is almost as good as y2K |
