| Author | Message | ||
     Etennuly |
Truth in History....Factual History.....how the heck would we know? Legends, stories passed down, written text, all are equally questionable. As our American society is now proving in our public schools, History must be constantly changed to be socially acceptable. How long has this crap been going on? I'm sure as long as two or more people have been on the planet. Just read an eighty year old history text book and someone will argue that it should not have been said that way or that it is wrong to think that way. But, THAT IS ACTUAL History(well almost, it still is from a point of view of someone of the time). Bible as a History book.....not unlike a computer.....requires human input, that requires thought, that is biased to the thinker's way of thinking. So what is real? You can't know for sure, but it is touted as such mostly from religious stand points. Historical thoughts are usually slanted to the victor's ideals. Christian religions are so superior, split off into numerous factions because they cannot even get along with themselves or believe a shared belief without fighting or bickering to all ends about it. The only times Christian beliefs come together is when they are at war with a non-Christian group(not unlike this thread). Few things in life divide people, family, friends, and even enemies more fervently and completely than religion. Whoa! Look at me drawing lines where none existed before(between myself and some of you) because of having spouted out a thought about religion. This is the easiest thing in the World to prove. Even a non-religious thought can provoke a religious argument that can spiral out of control into a never ending argument that turns into a total waste of time arguing about old life, current life, and future life, rather than living it. This and the responses(what will become attacks)on what I may or may not think is why I avoid these kind of argument threads. If I were to respond to any disagreement of what I wrote here in future threads, I can come back to this one and say....I told you so. | ||
| Prof_stack |
What time will I be raptured Friday? Is it time-zone related?  | ||
| Drkside79 |
Blake did you suspend him for that? If so i am surprised as it seems a bit harsh for that. I did find it distasteful but i have heard and seen worse. Oh well not my site. I would like to know though if you are willing to share. Respectfully, Andy | ||
| Notpurples2 |
Apparently, I haven't posted anything else lately. I haven't violated any BadWeB rules. Unless you say that it too vulgar. But if it's so bad that I would get suspended for it then why is it still there? An that's a matter of taste. I think it's freakin' funny. I mean I didn't get an email or a warning or anything so maybe it's just a mistake. I'm able to still use my old alternate account. (which i'm surprise even exists since i haven't used it in a looooong time.) When I try to post with Not_Purple it tells me it's been suspended by board custodians. I would think that after 8 years of membership I'd at least get an email if they had reason to suspend me. | ||
| Aesquire |
The Koran was written by one guy ( or a small group ) in historical times. As poetry. Sorted by size. With later verses over riding earlier ones. ( as the writer aged, gained wisdom or at least political experience ) Meaning interpreted in large part by others, both during the writers life, and centuries later. I myself, do not think it holier than any other text written by someone who claims revelation. The multiple churches that use the Koran mostly consider it the final word. Not my faith, form your own opinion. ( yes, I have read the Koran ) The Bible is also thought by some to be the direct word of God as told by others, and kept straight by divine guidance. Not my faith, form your own opinion. ( yes, I have read the Bible. Moreover, I have been a member of multiple Christian churches. I'm not now. ) There are a few real good moral thoughts in the Koran. There are several in the Bible. My opinion. Much of the koran I find unacceptable as a guide to life. Some of the Bible too. I take from each the wisdom it has to give, and reject that I find wrong. I could be wrong. I often am. I also have gleaned some small bits of Truth from Shinto, Buddhism, and other faiths. ( yep, a cafeteria Catholic ) I will not attempt comment on the holiness of these books and scrolls, but I do have a comment on May 21st. The author of this prediction applied math to the Bible. The Aramaic tribes that carried that book didn't have zero. That came much later when Arabic traders brought it from India, first to the Arabian lands then on across Africa until they were spread to Europe after the fall of Islamic Spain. Took centuries. Any math in the Bible is going to be different than todays, and basing a prediction on the english translation of the latin-greek-aramaic progression of language and knowledge seems damn silly to me. You want to believe that the message of God's intent remains unchanged over thousands of years? Fine. No argument from me. That the dates are all correct? Ha!  | ||
| Aesquire |
...leave the Smurfs alone! Snort, choke, gasp! Enkidu will get you for that!  | ||
| Drkside79 |
Well purple i agree with you and considering some of the things i have seen on here directed at muslims i don't think yours was near as bad. However i am not a mod so i cant do a damn thing about it. | ||
| Blake |
Someone asked, >>> what's a cubit? What a ruthless sport bike racer does to a Blast? | ||
| Blake |
Matt, >>> New testament was written hundreds of years after the alleged facts... That is false; no credible scholar agrees with you on that. You've been misled. Scholars, Christian and skeptic alike, have concluded that the gospels were written prior to 100 AD with many credible estimates for their publications dating to as early as 60 AD, less than 30 years after Jesus' crucifixion, not "hundreds of years after" as you have been so horribly misled to believe. Ain't it great how actual facts can inform a thoughtful debate?  I'm here for you mate. If you really are interested in some of the scholarly analysis and logic employed to arrive at those estimates see http://carm.org/when-were-gospels-written-and-by-w hom. An excerpt for your enlightenment None of the gospels mention the destruction of the Jewish temple in 70 A.D. This is significant because Jesus had prophesied concerning the temple when He said "As for these things which you are looking at, the days will come in which there will not be left one stone upon another which will not be torn down," (Luke 21:6, see also Matt. 24:1; Mark 13:1). This prophecy was fulfilled in 70 A.D. when the Romans sacked Jerusalem and burned the temple. The gold in the temple melted down between the stone walls and the Romans took the walls apart, stone by stone, to get the gold. Such an obvious fulfillment of Jesus' prophecy most likely would have been recorded as such by the gospel writers who were fond of mentioning fulfillment of prophecy if they had been written after 70 A.D. Also, if the gospels were fabrications of mythical events then anything to bolster the Messianic claims -- such as the destruction of the temple as Jesus said -- would surely have been included. But, it was not included suggesting that the gospels (at least Matthew, Mark, and Luke) were written before 70 A.D. Another excellent scholarly discussion of the issue by Dr. William Craig may be found at http://www.reasonablefaith.org/site/News2?page=New sArticle&id=5207. An excerpt follows: the gospels themselves use sources that go back even closer to the events of Jesus’s life. For example, the story of Jesus’s suffering and death, commonly called the Passion Story, was probably not originally written by Mark. Rather Mark used a source for this narrative. Since Mark is the earliest gospel, his source must be even earlier. In fact, Rudolf Pesch, a German expert on Mark, says the Passion source must go back to at least AD 37, just seven years after Jesus’ death.3 So where you say "hundreds of years", highly respected credible scholars find tens of years or even less. >>> by people who were hardly to be considered 'independant onlookers'. Yet four full accounts were separately written, and each corroborate very well the common history they relate, not to mention a number of other outside sources. There is no other example of ancient text that is anywhere near so well corroborated, documented, and upheld by credible scholarly exegesis, none. >>> It has also been 'translated' many times since with all of the changes that has incurred to the original text. What we see now is not 'The Bible' that was written thousands of years ago. You've been misled. In fact we have a size-able collection of ancient copies of the gospels. They have been analyzed in depth by scholars and found to agree to within something like 98% and where in disagreement not concerning anything substantive to the history related, only very minor stuff. Again, there is no other historical document so thoroughly corroborated with so many different copies of ancient origin. You are free to learn Greek and read the originals for yourself if you like, but that is another discussion. >>> Unfortunately most of the bible, and the organised religion that surrounds it, was designed to keep ignorant peasants in their place and keep the rich nobles (and that included religious leaders of course) at the top of the heap and to maintain the status quo. On organized religion (involving men in positions of power), I can agree that it's history is full of corruption and abuse. On the Bible itself--you said "most of the bible"--I think your point is complete and utter nonsense. Jesus himself and the story of his confrontation with the power-mongers of organized religion of the day prove the falsehood of your assertion. They had him tortured and crucified. Likewise, the story of the Israelites in the old testament is one of heroic escape from bondage and brutal oppression. It sure doesn't sound like you've read the Bible to me. Sounds to me like you've been sorely misled. Lucky you have me around to help shine the light of truth your way. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Can you buy pre-sale tickets to the rapture somewhere, because I assume they will cost more at the gate? | ||
| Blake |
>>> I haven't violated any BadWeB rules. Inaccurate, and you did so quite defiantly after being informed of your inappropriate behavior, which you acknowledge. I have almost zero tolerance for people coming here and degrading Jesus Christ. Like I said when I first addressed your poor behavior: It is truly sad how the disrespectful anti-Christian bigotry always seems to infect an otherwise lighthearted thread. Your response to that was to elevate your offensive behavior by acknowledging its offensiveness and posting a degrading image of Jesus. Imagine seeing a deeply degrading caricature of your father or mother displayed in public. Funny huh?  A quick summary of some pertinent BadWeB terms of use: I agree to treat with respect and courtesy all members of this online Buell enthusiasts' community. From where I sit, you violated all the above. | ||
| Blake |
Matt, >>> it annoys me when 'believers' sanctimoniously try to push their beliefs onto me Anyone ever do that here, ever? It bothers me when disbelievers sanctimoniously malign and insult the beliefs of Christians, which happens all the time here. I think in this case it was just incredibly poor manners and then indignation, but sometimes, often, it is downright hostile. Please explain. What do you figure drives such anti-Christian hostility? I have my suspicions. Apparently the whole "treat others as you would be treated" is a truly maddening message for some. | ||
| Blake |
Thank you Jon and Micah for your contributions here and your support. It means a lot to me. You're good men. Great to see both of you pop in for a visit. If you don't post after Saturday, rumors may fly.  | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>> what's a cubit? >>What a ruthless sport bike racer does to a Blast?<< Not Furlong. | ||
| Blake |
Tony (Spiderman), Great to see you chime in old buddy. >>> So as an engineer would you refer to an old Alchemy book while doing metal fatigue testing? I don't follow your question as relates to the discussion. Apparently I wasn't clear in my point. I interpreted Matt's statement (paraphrased) "there are other religious texts" to imply the old argument that since there are so many different religions they must be false. That fails logic in that the existence of other religions does not show that one, in this case Christianity, is false. All others indeed may be false and Christianity may be true. | ||
| Ezblast |
Bravo Dave! - lol EZ | ||
| Blake |
Chris Rogers, >>> Humans will destroy the habitable aspect of the Earth well before any outside factor (God) will have a chance to. Uh, ... you got a date for that?  Just for the record, I don't at all believe that humans will destroy the habitable aspect of planet Earth. The trend is the exact opposite in the developed world. >>> Blake (or anyone else)- I pose this question. What are your thoughts on "The Epic of Gilgamesh" and the similarities that it shares with the bible (keeping in mind it predates the bible). Don't you feel its slightly ironic there are such similarities? "similarities with the bible"? You mean with the Genesis flood story? Gilgamesh is one small book, nothing like the Bible's 66 books. Why would similarities between two stories, even if one be historic, be ironic? The word I'd use would be coincidental. For me, the Gilgamesh story lends credibility to the account of the flood. >>> (keeping in mind it predates the bible) Giglamesh tablets found may predate the earliest copies of Genesis found, but there is no evidence that the story itself predates that of Genesis as passed down orally until the Israelites finally had it recorded. See http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/gilgamesh .html for an interesting comparison. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Is this BadWeb or Bible Web? I've done my best to hold out and be nice, but I'm sick of them(the mouth breathers known as Christians) claim that it is their duty to bring the news of Jebbers to the whole world. They are taught that it is their duty, and their way to "earn" their way into heaven. It is called a Messiah complex. What they don't realize is that many of us already heard the news and ain't interested in believing some belief based on older Traditions. That some of us have a brain in our heads. TOP TEN ways to develop a Messiah-Complex - Always preface your indoctrination sessions with the words, "The Holy Spirit is the best teacher." - Make sure that 90% of your posts are Bible quotes to refute other people's unauthorized Bible quotes. - Like the King that you are; demand proof, demand respect, demand apologies, demand allegiance and shame your unruly subjects until they submit. (and don't forget to demand proof.) - Stubbornly ignore polite and direct requests from others to be left alone. - Realize that God depends on you, and you alone. - Recognize insubordination as the spirit of the Antichrist. - Make outrageous claims to put people on the defensive. (IE. "When are you going to stop beating your wife?") - Have the uncanny ability to always be at war with yourself or those around you. - The world is your audience. Show them the way. - Persuade others to join your crusade of sanitizing the world of all the people/ideologies that God forgot to kill first. Sick of this S HIT... Make a f ucking Bible thread for CHRIST sake! Seacrest......OUT! | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Should i pack my bags now?? | ||
| Cpeg |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KHt8xrQkk | ||
| Blake |
Curtis, >>> For me to accept a Deity as truly benevolent then his religion would have had to have been universally accessible to all people from day one. According to the Bible, it was (Adam and Eve, then later Noah and family). Beyond that you are placing your own personal emotional conditions on god. Dude. How can the creator of the universe and life in it not be good and benevolent, from the perspective of a living being I mean? >>> The fact that thousands, millions, lived and died, and continue to do so, without ever hearing of a religion proves to me that that religion couldn't be true. Lots of folks have never heard of calculus either. Does that render calculus false? There is no logical support for your reasoning, only emotion. That constitutes a very poor proof. >>> At the very least it couldn't be the religion of a benevolent god, especially when the punishment for not accepting that religion is eternal suffering. Again, that is just emotion speaking. Who are we to know the big picture? If you were to happen upon a man setting fire to the forest, you would likely assume he is perpetrating evil, but he may be setting a fire break, sacrificing some trees in order to save the forest. Would his action not be seen as benevolent from the perspective of the trees of the forest? >>> If you had been born to Muslim parents in a country where Islam was the majority you would most likely have a completely different outlook on religion. Or if they were Jewish, or Hindu, or Buddhist. Sure there are many that change faiths in adulthood. But the majority of it is learned in childhood from parents. Religion, for the most part, is an incident of birth. That may be accurate. However it has no logical bearing whatsoever on the issue of which religion if any are true. Employing reason over emotion can help lead one to truth. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Oh... I'm about to have it! | ||
| Blake |
>>> Should i pack my bags now?? Not at all. I'm perfectly satisfied to let your little anti-Christian tirade stand for all to see. Nice work. Like I said to Matt, It bothers me when disbelievers sanctimoniously malign and insult the beliefs of Christians, which happens all the time here. I think in this case it was just incredibly poor manners and then indignation, but sometimes, often, it is downright hostile. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Blake, by no means am i anti-Christian. Please refer to.. - Make outrageous claims to put people on the defensive. (Message edited by americanmadexb on May 20, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> I've done my best to hold out and be nice, but I'm sick of them(the mouth breathers known as Christians) claim that it is their duty to bring the news of Jebbers to the whole world. >>> by no means am i anti-Christian. Right, you're a fount of love and compassion. You just characterized Christians as "mouth breathers", and degraded/insulted the name of Jesus. Why? What causes such hate to well up inside you as you witness thoughtful discussion of religion? I've seen it happen many times, but have yet to get what I consider an honest answer. What compels your outrage? | ||
| Blake |
>>> claim that it is their duty to bring the news of Jebbers to the whole world. What is so maddening about folks acting on their sincerely held belief and looking to spread good news and salvation? What compels you to degrade the name of Jesus? | ||
| Americanmadexb |
My outrage is your ability to stay up all night because this is getting at you so bad you have to prove your "complex". i really don't wanna hear it, I'm done hearing it, and you can move on... BTW, 1125 is better then the M2.. Is that wrong too b/c i don't think what you think?? Live and let live.. Done. | ||
| Trojan |
That is false; no credible scholar agrees with you on that. You've been misled. Scholars, Christian and skeptic alike, have concluded that the gospels were written prior to 100 AD with many credible estimates for their publications dating to as early as 60 AD, less than 30 years after Jesus' crucifixion, not "hundreds of years after" as you have been so horribly misled to believe. Some biblical texts MAY have been written as early as you say, but certainly not the BIBLE as a complete document and definitely NOT the version that we have now (which has changed almost beyond recognition apparently - I haven't read the original obviously). When was the first English language version of the Bible produced? When was the old testament written? Do you think it was written by eye witnesses? If you believe that a man turned water into wine, raised poeple from the dead or performed any of the other miracles from the bible then great. Personally I tend to view the New Testament as a collection of allagorical stories trying to teach people who couldn't read or write a few moral guidelines, nothing more, nothing less. Scientific evidence pretty much disproves most of the Old Testament. We can argue this for ever unfortunately, simpy because if you believe something deeply enough then you will not see the other argument regardless of scientific or other evidence available. I suppose that is the nature of any religious belief | ||
| Whisperstealth |
This was a really fun thread. I was enjoying it quiet a bit. I really wish fun threads could stay fun threads, and not become a battle ground for religious / anti-religious debate. No matter what side your on, it always gets ugly, and takes the fun out of a great forum. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Blake remember you will be persecuted for your faith. We know where these folks end up on thier present path. Free will could they be like Peter ? time will tell Original sin Wanting to be God is the real issue. What are we supposed to be doing for these folks Blake? Dont let evil have power over you. Peace of the Lord. |
