| Author | Message | ||
     Strokizator |
Scooter, maybe you can explain to me just why teachers and fire fighters even need a union. | ||
| Glitch |
You cannot bring about prosperity by discouraging thrift You cannot strengthen the weak by weakening the strong You cannot help the wage earner by pulling down the wage payer You cannot further the Brotherhood of Man by encouraging class hatred You cannot keep out of trouble by spending more than you earn You cannot build character and courage by taking away man's initiative and independence You cannot help men permanently by doing for them what they should and could do for themselves ~Abraham Lincoln | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Didn't say they did. Someone else said, "They create nothing, build nothing, do little or nothing." And that is Bullsh!t. | ||
| Sifo |
I wouldn't say that teachers, firemen, and police do nothing. They however do nothing that adds to the countries GDP. They are in fact a necessary liability to the country. Teachers in particular have little incentive to do an effective job. | ||
| Dobypaw |
Quote "Just curious, but if you did not work at GE, what would you do for a living?" the same thing I do at GE... What I have been doing for the last 23 years a Machinist!!! For all the know it alls on here... Question about starting a business with no or very little money... Could I start my own machine shop without or very little money? That is what I would do if I was to go into business for myself. I would say no freaking way! I would need a Bridgeport and a decent lathe with at least a 12 inch swing, drill press. Surface grinder and not to mention the tooling and measuring equipment! And to be competitive I would need a c.n.c lathe with live tooling. How much would all that cost me. Let's not forget about remodeling the garage and adding the extra power needed to run the machines. I don't think very little to no money would cover the start up cost for that business. Machining is what I do and what I am good at and is the only business I would form. If I was crazy enough to take it out of my 401K I would but I have 3 kids at home to worry about ages 4 to 14. They are my #1 priority that is why I'm pissed at GE because what they take from me they take from my family as well. If things do not go well I just might try and start a business or go south to chatanooga and work for Alstom. The pay is $5 less an hour but the cost of living will cover that and then some as compared to NY. Oh wait, I know how I can start a machineshop with little money? How about you guys invest in it and get me started. Yeah right know go pound sand!!! | ||
| Geforce |
"Oh wait, I know how I can start a machineshop with little money? How about you guys invest in it and get me started. Yeah right know go pound sand!!!" With a good business plan and a strong argument you can secure financial backing with investment firms. They will want to know you are willing to pour your heart and soul into the business and see it through. Anything is possible if you dare to dream and take a few calculated risks. If you are that frustrated with GE Doby... go for it! Start planning, it never hurts to try. It will be rough getting started but the long term pay off could be exponential if your plan and vision is right. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Teachers in particular have little incentive to do an effective job. That's assuming that the only incentive is monetary. I would argue that as a corporate schmuck, I have way less incentive to do a good job than a teacher. Because of the idiotic HR policies, I get pretty much the same raise every year +- 0.5% no matter what I do. The CEO and his minions declare record profits publicly, gloom and doom internally, then give everyone that works for them 0% for the year, claiming 27% for themselves. I'm not sure of the definition of leadership, but I do know what that did to their credibility with me. I work hard (sometimes) because I like some of the operations people I work for. If I could see a kid's face light up because he finally understood how fractions work....now that would be incentive. | ||
| Sifo |
They are my #1 priority that is why I'm pissed at GE because what they take from me they take from my family as well. The ONLY thing GE takes from you (actually you agree to give it as a condition of employment) is your time. No one said you could start a machine shop with no capital. There are businesses that can be started with pocket change though. Honestly I would advise you learn more about business before {ever} venturing out on your own. You have demonstrated a lack of knowledge on numerous very basic principles. Once you can demonstrate more business knowledge along with your skills as a machinist you might stand a chance at getting a small business loan. Based on what you have said here though, just stay an hourly employee. | ||
| Glitch |
Paul, you can't start with your whole list if you're tight with money. You start small, do what you can with what you've got. Work hard and long hours. Maybe just making small parts to begin with, then you use your profits to invest in more machinery, and expand. You can do it, if you want to. You may not be able to quit your day job at first, but make that a goal. You can do it, if you want to. It ain't easy, no one says it is. You can do it, if you want to. It's simple. Do not however, confuse ease with simplicity. You seem to be a smart man, just put your mind to it, and stick it to the man, your way. But you can only do it, if it's what you want. If that's too much work for you, there's no shame in working for others. | ||
| Sifo |
Scooter, It's a shame you have so little personal incentive. I was able to find incentive beyond my next pay review. In fact in management training I was taught that cash actually provides very little incentive to employees. I found that to be true in practice. You can make an employee happy for a very short time with cash, then they are right back to the attitude the had previously. As for teachers, it has been clearly shown that way to many schools are just shuffling students from one grade to the next regardless of what they have learned. Your hypothetical teacher seems to be in the minority. BTW, I get to talk to teachers daily in my current job. It's easy to pick the slackers from the motivated. There's plenty of slackers. | ||
| Sifo |
I would say contact the SBA and have them help you put together a proposal for a bank loan. The SBA and the bank will let you know if you have a prayer of succeeding without wasting too much time, and money. They wont BS you and will let you know your strengths and weaknesses. Don't take any of it personally. | ||
| Moxnix |
I misspoke in not exempting police and firefighters from other public employees. I was remiss. Having been in public service, the "Rule of 20/80" often was blatant: 20 percent of the workforce does 80 percent of the work. Teachers? They might garner my respect if the 3 R's are more important than rolling condoms on a cucumber. Why do school district superintendents receive higher pay than a state's governor? Why does administration get over half the school's budget? Several European countries have unionized military. Now, there's a plan . . . | ||
| Scooter808484 |
Scooter, It's a shame you have so little personal incentive I've got plenty. It's just that the a$$hat corporate manglers provide none of it, and actually provide plenty of disincentive competing with what personal incentive hasn't been beaten out of me. They might garner my respect if the 3 R's are more important than rolling condoms on a cucumber. Plenty of excellent reading and math teachers. So it's still Bull$hit. You want to talk about curriculum, that generally comes from the state legislature. Why do school district superintendents receive higher pay than a state's governor? Because they can, just like everyone else, especially the idiot CEOs you all seem so fond of. And school district superintendents aren't, generally, in the union. Why does administration get over half the school's budget? Administrators are not in the union. They are taking the money from the one's that should be getting it. Maybe that's why the teachers think they need a union. | ||
| Scooter808484 |
In fact in management training... Ahh that explains it... you've been in for the labotomy.  Really, only kidding! You like mountain bikes, so you can't be all bad! | ||
| Sifo |
I would say it's because administration and the union are both on the same side, asking for more money from the government. This is a bastardization of the typical union/management negotiation. The government is lacking in desire to control costs too, making it even worse. | ||
| Sifo |
I was in management training, not management. I quit that job specifically to avoid being in management. I have been in many positions that have provided new insights into the entire corporate process. Spending time in the corporate scene as a consultant was great sometimes. You get a dispassionate view and management is more free to share certain information that they wouldn't necessarily disclose to employees. I have been in supervisory rolls a number of times. I've passed up management positions at least 4 times though. It just wasn't something that appealed to me. You have to deal with too may whiny people who just aren't self motivated in the least. I've also done 100% commission sales. The best jobs I've had were the ones where my compensation was tied directly to productivity. The current job is close though because of all of the time off I get following the school schedule. Summers off is fantastic! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You can start a machine shop with little or no money with the best of equipment. Many do it all the time. The trick is finding someone who has the equipment you need and is willing to allow you to rent it when it is not in use. It may mean that you are machining parts from 6pm to 2am or 11pm to 7am while the shops labor is off. If I had equipment that is dormant for part of the day and I could make $XXXX a month renting it, that rental helps me cover my over head. Think of it as a time share. I purchased several high quality parts from a supplier for my Buell that had no shop and no equipment. She rented the equipment she needed and produced the goods. They are VERY high quality. The problem isn't capital. It's imagination. As far as investing goes, there is nothing that yields better returns in the long run than direct participation in business whether your own or that of another. One can not enjoy the benefits of investing in the stock of a company and then bemoan the method in which that return is secured. That's like complaining that your wife is a hooker while at the same time enjoying the benefits of that "enterprise". | ||
| Xl1200r |
I'm thinking of becoming a drum builder on the side... a little worried that I'll never sell a drum set to anyone but myself, though... | ||
| Kenm123t |
Mindset is Dobys problem he has defeated himself. What they take from me says it all. A wage slave dont waste your time his prison is one he built for himself in his mind if he were really worried about his kids he would want to build a legacy for them. | ||
| Blake |
A good machinist can pretty much write his own ticket. Go for it Doby. Yeah, move out of NY too! Now you're thinking. I know of two successful entrepreneurs here that started out with a single machine, one a lathe, the other a water-jet cutter. | ||
| Daves |
To start your own business first off you need to be willing to risk everything. If you are not, you will fail. Period. Money can be found. I went to 2 different banks. One turned me down flat. The other said "No Problem"! Yes, I had to put equity I had in my house as collateral(hence the Risk Everything) I leased a building for the first 3 years. Then I got totally demolished financially in divorce court! I pretty much lost everything. 3 year old business, making it but just. I could make waaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy more money working for someone else. Had several offers. Yep, most people would've walked away. I am a stubborn SOB though so instead I expanded my business! I noticed a building FOR SALE that would be great for my business. I had 0 money, no equity in a house anymore and my credit score had taken a hit from where it had been. So, most would've thought "there's no way I can buy a building". Well I did some digging, got a 5000.00 loan from the city as part of their economic development program. I then went to the bank, the one that turned me down before. I told Dave the banker that he missed out last time, would you like another shot at doing biz with me? I guess me making it for 3 years and thru all the turmoil(it's a small town, everyone knows the hell I have been thru) made a difference. He verbally gave me the go ahead right then. He owns the bank so that was good enough for me! So, I bought a building! The almost perfect building for me. Room, lots of it, 5500 sq ft(up from about 3500 in prev location) an apartment for me and Buck to live in(since the judge gave my house away) and a nice 2 stall garage for the bikes and quad. It cut my living/business expenses by about 500.00 per month! I believe more than ever I can make it in this business. The business has "turned the corner" this year. Biz is up 39% YTD over last year. If that continues I will be above the projected 5 and 6 year figures. Like they say,"success is the BEST revenge"! I plan to succeed! Anyone can IF they want it bad enough. | ||
| Dobypaw |
Quote "The trick is finding someone who has the equipment you need and is willing to allow you to rent it when it is not in use. It may mean that you are machining parts from 6pm to 2am or 11pm to 7am while the shops labor is off. If I had equipment that is dormant for part of the day and I could make $XXXX a month renting it, that rental helps me cover my over head." Ft. Bastard anyone willing to that would be crazy the liability if an accident would happen would run you out of business from the law suite not to mention the OSHA fine for having one person in the shop operating manchinery could bring a pretty big fine as well...I would bet no machine shop owner would rent their equipment with that hanging over their head. You said you could make $XXXX renting machines that is more than little or no money. Anyone crazy enough to rent the machines would most likely want the first month rent up front with a security deposit in case you F up a machine a lot more than little to no money. To many variables to see anyone taking a huge risk in renting out their machine or their shop for that matter. What happens if your working on a job and you do not complete it and the owner tells you to come to his shop and get the job out of the machine because he needs it? Like I said to many variables and risk's to go that route. Kenm123t I'm glad you are an expert and a know it all as well seeing how you know me so well. Thanks for showing me the light I am so glad there is someone like you to enlighten me about my life and situation, something you have no idea what it is all about just the tiny tidbits you read here... and another thing NEVER! say I do not worry/care about my kids. your quote "he were really worried about his kids" You don't know me and do not assume like most of the other experts and know it alls on here. ASSUME ASSUME ASSUME that is all you guys do on here. I was told by my shop teacher 25 years ago as well as the rest of you know...What does ASSUME mean? There are a lot of a$$es in here right now!!! Like I said before most of you are anti-union and most likely haters as well...And arguing with you is like pissing in the wind. Time to close this subject!!! Go argue with yourselves I bet you think you can win that argument as well!!! FYI to all you experts and know it alls I do have a very small business on eBay not making much money at it but it is a start been at it since January. Just waiting to get the extra money to purchase a nice inclosed trailer to go to estate sales and auctions. I may have my own shop in a few years. | ||
| Blake |
Sounds like you have a good start. Go for the dream. It never ceases to amaze, the excuses that the timid will make to avoid actually going after their dream. | ||
| Reindog |
Doby, I feel like I know you. All too damned well. Most of the postings on this thread in relationship to you are incredibly supportive but your response is to hurl epithets in anger. Reread what has been posted and you will see support and love. You are motivated by fear and anger which makes failure a self fulfilling prophecy. You are making excuses why you can not succeed. Listen calmly to Dave Steuve's posting. It is motivational and you CAN change yourself. You can succeed! But don't expect the government or the union to make your success. No one is going to do it for you. Sorry, but that is just the way it has always been, is, and will always be. | ||
| Dobypaw |
Reindog you do not know me at all I have no problem with most post's here just a few that attacked me personally... If My kids were older and out of the house I would have no problem going after my dream but my dream can wait until I am done raising them to reach their dreams. Their well being is #1 and my dream can wait!!! Kenm123t probably does not have kids and is not a father because myself being a father would never say to another father that he does not really care about his kids. His post was wrong and he should have thought twice about posting it. I should not let that get to me but when someone bashes me about my kids I draw the line right there if he was here face to face he would be on the ground!!! | ||
| Two_seasons |
Dobypaw: First, let me say that I too have been to hell and back with a new home, divorce, then stepping off into the deep end and starting a new business. You could too if you really wanted it! Most of us fear failure more than we will work to succeed on our own. It's very easy to work for someone else. Most employers are glad you even care enough to go the extra distance for them these days. I've even heard that an employee at another landscaping business told the owner "you expect everyone to work as hard as you do". As a business owner, yes I do expect everyone to work as hard as me. If I can do it at 57, then a 20 year should be able to do as much. And, I still work full time. The biggest obstacle to opening up your own business is fear of failure. I've started three businesses with a partner, two went down in flames, but I still own the third one. Not a millionaire, but it sure is good to know I can do other things with "my free time". I think you are taking this thread as criticism, but there are good ideas in here. There is no shame in working for someone else. Do the best you can when you are working for the man. Then, if you have enough drive, strike out and build your business based around your passion. You are never too old. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The other side of it is that you can consult and project solve on an SME capacity for piecemeal work. I did it for 12 years before coming to Motorcycles; the insurance industry is a MESS; and they always needed my talents.... and lookee there, Its STILL messed up, and with the newly polished degree, they will pay me more for the same services as before. and of course the Lobbiests are hiring ..... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
After 4 years, my wife's company is starting to pay us consistent income. We are closing in on $500,000 in annual sales. We net about $90,000 in tex taxable income. My wife is 33% owner. Most would have given up on a business that didn't pay you anything for 4 years. We saw the potential and plowed every dollar back into the company to grow it. We now cash flow all production instead of having to beg others to lend us short term money. My wife's partner is really good at running a business. My wife is very talented at the design work. They are a good match. I hope that by 2015, the annual sales are close to $1M. We'll see. We had NO capital (other than the original $5,000 I put into it) and funded the majority of it through a second mortgage on my house. | ||
| Dobypaw |
Quote "First, let me say that I too have been to hell and back with a new home, divorce, then stepping off into the deep end and starting a new business. You could too if you really wanted it!" Two season I know I could but not at the risk of my children's future. Right now I have a great steady income, but that could all change in one month when the contract is up at work... I see the old timers at GE sit on their ass and do nothing. I myself bust my ass at work sitting around gets you nowhere... Last month I made machinist leader. Couple of guys were not happy about but when you do nothing you get nothing. I would like to see GE not mes with our health insurance. That is the biggest thing bothering me. The other issues I can handle but the health insurance is big with three kids a wife and me being a diabetic I am looking at a minimum of $6000 out of pocket even before the new insurance kicks in then I pay 20%. I figured it out I will pay about $8,000 to $10,000 a year for insurance when I am us to paying $46 a week plus my co-pays. It will be like taking a 12% cut in pay... My wife does not work she is a full time mother and the money she would make if she worked would go to child care...I'm just hoping the 45 rpm record I am putting on eBay go for nice money. I fear these old guy will vote to strike I can afford the insurance more than a strike. GE will get what they want but I have the right to get pissed and vent about it...It's just to bad there are haters that give you a hard time about it. But that is fine I will be OK they mean nothing to me they could die tomorrow and I would not lose any sleep over it!!! How's that for some hating...HA HA HA  | ||
| Court |
Wow |
