| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Aesquire, I fully agree that the wonders around us can lead us to faith in... ID theory, at least as proposed by Meyer doesn't rely on that however. He draws parallels with geology constantly to point out how the methods used are the same as used in geology and other sciences. I noticed you left geology out of you list of "soft" sciences. I'm not sure what to make of that given I keep making the comparison to geology. Huh? Aren't space and time infinite? Don't space and time start with the big bang? If there's a defined starting place then by definition it isn't infinite. Quantum physics make brain hurt! | ||
| Boltrider |
Is that what quantum physics says? I've never read up on it so I don't know. If that's what it says, then there can be a physical infinite by taking the negation of that definition, at least in theory. My brain doesn't like that definition because it fails miserably in the realm of mathematics. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"Agnostics don't seek any answers. They consider it unknowable and leave it at that." Agnostic:- A person who holds that the existence of the ultimate cause, as god, and the essential nature of things are unknown and unknowable, or that human knowledge is limited to experience. DD, Don't you ever wonder? I do. G | ||
| Gregtonn |
"If I knew everything, I’d know everything."_Greg Tonn | ||
| Danger_dave |
Not really. Planet Dave is self sufficient. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
hell I'm just glad Skynet didnt go live. | ||
| Danger_dave |
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| Mr_grumpy |
Mr Grumpy's variation on Newton's 3rd law. For every opinion there is an equal & opposite load of crap.  | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Don't space and time start with the big bang. If there's a defined starting place then by definition it isn't infinite? A quick Goggle search will lead one to the conclusion that no one knows whether space is infinite or finite or if the Big Bang was the beginning or just a beginning to an end. If space isn't infinite then what's on the other side of it? nothingness? how is that defined and isn't nothing in fact, something? | ||
| Sifo |
Nope. Nobody knows for sure. There's only theories. We look at the strengths and weaknesses of the various competing theories and generally accept the theories that best explain what we observe in the world (or universe) around us. That whole process is central to what this thread is about. My example of space and time starting with the big bang is far from certain, but it is what is predicted, at least as I understand it, from that theory. There are some pretty bright people who don't agree with some commonly held theories though... | ||
| Sifo |
Here's that same kid touching on what happens to time when matter is compressed to a singularity. He describes it a bit about 2 minutes in. Scary kid! | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
That " kid" desires to disprove the Big Bang theory | ||
| Sifo |
At least he has a lot of years ahead of him to work on it. IIRC this kid is autistic. Autism is a very strange condition. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sirius A seems to be too small for a supernova, ( one hopes, since one that close would end human life pretty swiftly.) but the rest seems good at first glance. Autistic? Hmm. I believe in the Bell Curve. Many, if not most of the ADHD kids are just bored, or, well, kids. Some have real issues with paying attention. ( that isn't being bored ) More than need meds, can "benefit" from them. I'm surprised they don't issue them at work, many places. The Cubicle World & the TPS reports folk could use mood leveling drugs....IMHO. Some Autistic kids are off in their own worlds, unable to communicate, others, ( if this kid is a proper example ) have issues because no one around them has a clue what they are talking about. The kids into stellar evolution and processes. Cool. Most teachers ( and the students the turn out ) have no freaking clue what that is. | ||
| Sifo |
Autistic kids often are savants in certain areas. Unfortunately they also often suffer from severe communication problems. The earlier it's identified the better the results tend to be with getting the kids to communicate. Untreated some will be lost forever even though they may have unknown skills. | ||
| Sifo |
Sirius A seems to be too small for a supernova, ( one hopes, since one that close would end human life pretty swiftly.) but the rest seems good at first glance. BTW, cut him some slack. He's only 12! | ||
| Aesquire |
Not dissing the kid. just glad I don't have another thing that worrying about won't change, like the 2029 flyby of 99942 Apophis. | ||
| Superdavetfft |
Blake did you delete my post? | ||
| Swordsman |
I've never had a problem with Evolution. Best I can tell, it's simple breeding. Things change over time. Be it the specialized beak of a bird, the uncommonly high number of gingers in Ireland, or the fact that the children of people in high-UV ray areas have darker skin regardless of where they were born, it's all the same thing to me. Time and again, "supernatural" events are eventually understood through scientific means. There is no real supernatural, only nature we don't yet comprehend. Does this mean there isn't a God? I think it's quite the contrary. I believe the more we discover through science about the natural world, the closer we come to seeing God's finger prints on the universe. ~SM (Message edited by Swordsman on April 25, 2011) | ||
| Slaughter |
The more we discover, the more we realize how MUCH there is yet to discover. The notion that there is a finite amount of "stuff" to learn is a game for the ignorant to play. The more complex is our understanding of our little corner of the universe, the MORE COMPLEX our universe becomes. That is the beauty of the infinite; we are no closer to understanding it "all" than were our forebears when they were still communicating by grunting and gesturing. | ||
| Blake |
Grumpy, >>> Whatever the answer is, large parts of the world's population are going to be wrong. I've read that before; it's not an uncommon refrain. I don't disagree. I just wonder what the point of it is. Is it a problem that a lot of people's beliefs may be incorrect? >>> I have no answers, so don't ask me, I'm perfectly happy to accept that things are as they are. Excellent. Exactly how are things? ![: ]](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/proud.gif) | ||
| Hootowl |
"Exactly how are things?" I'm fairly certain there's a handbasket involved. | ||
| Kenm123t |
PSSST PSST PSSST Whew that was close! Got my troll repellant on just in time. Any one else want some ? | ||
| Buellkowski |
Just read that SETI has been mothballed for lack of funds. http://archive.seti.org/pdfs/ATA-hibernation.pdf The unknown is going to remain unknown for a little while longer. But someday, as is said, "the truth will out." | ||
| Kenm123t |
Hmm could be they are already here and all you need is a set of rabbitt ears? For the younger folks A set top anttenae used before cable. | ||
| Superdavetfft |
So who's deleting my posts? | ||
| Geforce |
"Time and again, "supernatural" events are eventually understood through scientific means. There is no real supernatural, only nature we don't yet comprehend. Does this mean there isn't a God? I think it's quite the contrary. I believe the more we discover through science about the natural world, the closer we come to seeing God's finger prints on the universe." - WELL put Swordsman! I feel the same way. Faith and religion are important to people. Evolution is adaptation of a species to the constantly changing events within the universe. This mechanism is simply survival. Just like faith, people have the ability to change their lives. Maybe not physically, but over time our species will adapt and change. Think about this... Our eyes see the way they do, the colors they do because of what? Sol. Our sun and it's temperature define the temperature and spectrum of light. It also has a lot to do with our atmosphere but imagine if our sun was much darker, cooler. How would our eyes see? Many animals see efficiently in the dark because their species has adapted to the best suited conditions for survival. Our sun is getting hotter, expanding... it's no threat to us now. But in a few million years, if we don't get off this rock we are done. I don't believe that God has limited us in any way. Nor do I read Revelations much. I tend to think that our extinction would be by our own hands. We have to encourage our children to study science, mathematics and engineering and ask bold questions about our existence and our place in the universe. God is just as important today as he will ever be for me in the future. As far as any biblical argument. I understand and respect that people hold the word of God dearly. I also tend to think that perhaps the stories in the Bible are the way they are for a reason. For me, it provides a foundation to learn, ask bold questions and humble myself when presented with "facts" that we are just a small insignificant blip in the universe. Was that intentional? I think so. I also don't think we are alone. I think that we were truly created to survive, adapt and seek out the answers. It's a long journey and we have millions upon millions of years to go. Perhaps someday true salvation is in the form of ascension into a higher plane of existence. Our bodies may growl frail with age and sickness. We die, but our soul lives on. At least I tend to think so. I don't refuse to cease to be, I simply understand that I cannot live forever. I don't have any tangible answers or proof. I do have faith, and a deep curiosity and urge to explore the wonders of creation. Often times I hear arguments between devote Christians and atheists over the bible. The atheist attempts to dispute the bible based on facts and logic yet refuses to respect the beliefs of another. The Christian fears the atheist will never reach salvation and attempts to educate the atheist. I don't convert people anymore. I don't persuade, I simply ask them questions and respect their beliefs. Who am I to question the word of God and creation? The Christian thinks... Why can't you see the evidence or LACK of evidence that God exists? The atheist thinks... I sit in the middle... I think that God intended us to grow in curiosity, explore the universe and evolve physically, mentally and spiritually. The bible is an amazing collection of stories and scriptures. I think it's a great start. I also think we were intelligently designed to become more than what we are. If I am wrong, then I am wrong. I will answer for this myself if that time comes. I have a right to believe in what I choose to believe and so does everyone else in the world. I may not agree entirely with ALL those different aspects, but I respect them and I am humbled to be given the chance to try and make a difference where I can, when I can. I just wished we had more time... Time... Time is another concept invented by man to measure existence. Maybe, just maybe I have all the "time" I need. | ||
| Blake |
>>> So who's deleting my posts? No one here other than your imagination. Geforce, >>> "Time and again, "supernatural" events are eventually understood through scientific means. I hear that kind of assertion a lot. I don't recall ever seeing an honest list of examples, well, outside of pagan mythology. | ||
| Geforce |
I quoted Swordsman on that one. I might be wrong, but the way I took his post was that the supernatural events or magical events are eventually understood by science. I'll try to explain how I see it... If an ancient people who worship a deity or deities witness a volcanic eruption that nearly wipes out their existence they may in fact tend to think that somehow their God(s) is angry. Today we understand a little better how that volcano erupted and we can even give fairly accurate predictions as to when it may happen again. That removes the "supernatural" and "magic" for me. It doesn't mean that there isn't a deity or deities that perhaps caused it. That's up to the individual. I respect that. I've witnessed things in combat that I cannot explain. Somehow, I didn't die in a explosion that disentigrated my vehicle. No one died. Several serious wounds and injuries for all of us but the medics and surgeons who worked on us were also baffled as to how we were able to survive the blast wave and over pressure of that particular incident. Some said it was the body armor, some said it was the characteristics of the blast wave and the depth of the charge that saved us. I tend to think it could have been a combination of all three. All I know for fact is that I am still alive, and I am grateful. I believe in miracles even if I don't use the word itself. I do not believe in magic or supernatural events. I just don't understand them... yet. If God appears in my living room to give me the answer to creation or stop in for a cup of coffee I may not understand how he got here or why he chose to visit me. But that doesn't mean that I don't believe in Him. Someday, I might understand a little better. That's what is important to me. Not to disprove anyone or anything. Just comprehension. If anyone here feels the same way and you have NetFlix. Find Stargate SG-1. It's an awesome story I'm into season five now and the complexities of their reality are just mind boggling. | ||
| Swordsman |
Blake, pretty sure at some point in time every naturally occurring event on the planet has been attributed to a god/spirit of some sort, be it the volcano previously mentioned, rainfall, the sun rising and setting, rainbows, seasons, lightning, the growth of crops, the tides.... there are so many examples I wouldn't know where to stop. Pagan mythology IS religion, whether it be yours or not. What kind of examples were you looking for? One of my favorite examples of explaining supernatural events is the theory of "spontaneous generation", though that was really an early attempt at scientific reasoning, and to my knowledge wasn't actually tied to religion. People used to think that meat actually turned into maggots, and that a pile of old rags left in a barn turned into baby mice. I know a guy who knows a guy that had an interesting take on ghosts. That guy thought that encounters with ghosts were actually thin spots in the time-space continuum. Kind of a neat idea. I've always had a bit of a scientific slant on religion. The whole bit about Jesus coming back from the dead.... if Jesus was so "perfect", he may very well have had a perfect body as well. I've always been amazed at how little it takes to kill us when every microscopic piece is a living being itself. Why can't the other guys just pick up the slack until the damage is repaired? If I was designing the perfect being, that's what I'd do. And maybe that's the way He did. Just a thought. I feel like God may operate more on a metaphysical level than popular religion gives Him credit for. He did, after all, create physics in the first place. ~SM |
