| Author | Message | ||
     Fresnobuell |
I have read much over the years about rear-brake induced crashes--primarily among the cruiser types as they seem to have an infatuation with the rear brake (or is it an aversion to the front brake?) Saturday I witnessed the for the first time a near crash primarily due to a rear wheel lockup. My buddy and I (me on my R and him on a Gixxer 1000) came up on a cruiser guy behind a pickup doing the speed limit. Cruiser guy looks anxious to pass the pickup truck but traffic at just the wrong spots keeps us all stuck behind the PU for a while. We are on a two lane foothill road in which the only reason for a cager to brake is generally to turn off onto a sidestreet or driveway. Guess the cruiser guy didn't know that little tidbit of common sense. Anyhow, the PU began to brake and certainly didn't help the situation by having its left brake/turn signal out. So we have basically one single brake light on the right hand side of the PU. Cruiser guy doesn't realize the PU must be slowing to make a left hand turn (no light at all on the left hand side) and proceeds to pull out on the left to pass. "Oh no. Not good." I think to myself as the truck proceeds to make the left turn in front of the cruiser. Truck sees the cruiser about to eat his rear bumper and widens the turn as much as possible. Cruiser proceeds to immediately lock up his rear brake, sliding probably 30 feet and then fishtailing to a point where I thought there was no saving this one. Either he was lowsiding or highsiding into the back of the pickup or if he was lucky he would just miss the PU entirely. By the Grace of God, and I mean, this guy was the luckiest son of a bitch--he popped up, almost high-sided but staying on the bike. Bike did a hell of a tank slapper but straightened out and after the guy manages not to crash into the trees on the opposite side of the road, he rides back in front of us from the opposite shoulder. Amazing. The sad part is if he used he front brake, it would have been nothing but a near miss and a lesson learned. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I know that older HDs (and I mean OLDER) were supposed to be used with heavy rear brake, and it explains why people did this - but this day and age, there's no excuse anymore... except the machines. I test rode a Suzuki M109R. Maybe it was just mine, but the rear brake was far to powerful and the pedal was position so far back (forward controls) that is was nearly impossible to NOT lock up the rear in a panic break. I won't go into the story - only explain that there were a lot of bikes, a blind curve, and a DOOFUS on a KTM parked across our entire lane and a nervous rider in front of me. Any who, rear on my (their) bike lock right up. Luckily I was able to ride it out, albiet sideways with tire smoking, and come to a rather smooth stop -upright and controlled. Some people complain the Buell rear brake is too weak. I think it's not weak enough. | ||
| Dwardo |
One peculiarity of H-D that I have learned only since I have owned one is that the the rear brake pedal is kinda like a tractor pedal. It moves forward at least as much as it moves down. The result is, when decelerating with your foot on the brake, your leg, which prolly weighs 40 pounds, inevitably applies the brake harder and harder. The brake is very powerful anyway and this doesn't help. I have slid my rear tire in this way and I am by no means a rear brake fan (the rear pads were worn out when I bought the bike but not the front so I guess previous owner guy was). I am installing an extended rear pedal tonight and I think that will improve the situation. | ||
| 86129squids |
Good post Fresno, and good topic- on my Buell I'd say I'm well over 80% front brake, to the point that it's totally natural/instinctive whilst I'm riding. A good buddy gave me a good reason, echoing what XL said, about rear brake usage on hogs- if the rider starts braking with the rear, that will set the suspension rear to front into a higher compression- with the front starting to compress, that's the time to begin applying higher pressure to the front. Given the chassis dynamics of most hogs, especially older ones, I can see this making sense- this is what I do when out on my 77 shovel, as the front is about half as strong as the stock rear "banana" caliper and disc. Gotta know your machine, gotta keep your technique sharp. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm pretty sure that the front brake is the only one on HDs that comes with ABS. That said, there is absolutely no reason to use the rear brake exclusively. I tend to use the rear brake ONLY when the drive system is engaged (not freewheeling). It's much harder to lock up the rear when the engine is turning. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
A few years ago I sat at a red light on my old cityX, watching a guy on a Ninja on the cross road go thru the interaction. 50 feet past the intersection a car pulled out in front of him, and stopped waiting for an opening to complete a left turn. He had plenty of stopping distance for a complete stop or he had enough room to swerve right and go around the car. This guy did neither, he locked up the back wheel and dumped it. | ||
| Nm5150 |
I find that I use the rear brake a lot to set my bike up for a curve.Mostly if the pavement is not smooth.I kind of ease on the back brake as I start to lean and then apply the front and let off the rear looking for the apex and when to get back on the gas.It feels like the bike is more settled when I apply the rear brake while setting up a line.Not mashing it but just dragging it a bit.Maby it is just me. | ||
| Skntpig |
Everyone has heard the story...I locked up the rear brake and had to lay 'er down instead of hitting the car. I choose to stop. If I'm using the front brake to stop hard my rear tire is barely touching the road, if at all. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
The guy kept going for a while until we passed him, then it seems he pulled off to check his shorts. I don't blame him as I was thinking about it pretty much all day and I was just a witness! | ||
| Jaimec |
You use the rear brake to START the weight transfer to the front wheel. From that point on you should be concentrating on the FRONT brake. At least on the street on perfectly dry pavement, anyway. Circumstances change on dirt and in the rain. In poor traction situations you should be paying almost equal attention to both brakes (still favoring the front, though). You really don't want EITHER wheel to lock. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
You use the rear brake to START the weight transfer to the front wheel. From that point on you should be concentrating on the FRONT brake. Thats the rule of thumb that I've lived by for as long as I can remember. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>I'm pretty sure that the front brake is the only one on HDs that comes with ABS.<< Nah - It's on the rear too. | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>I test rode a Suzuki M109R.<< Got one in the shed now. The rear brake is slightly 'woody'. Every vehicle is different. Set up, pads, has the fluid been changed/boiled. Sometimes I jump on two exact same bikes and the feel of the brakes is way different. One of the shortcomings of a Buell now is no ABS. It's a very good thing. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
You use the rear brake to START the weight transfer to the front wheel. You can start weight transfer just as easy with the front brake. Anyway, with warmed up Hypersport front wheel rubber, I think a stoppie is more likely than a front wheel skid or at least that's been my experience. | ||
| Madduck |
Applying any front brake at all on a Harley puts terrible gouges in the polished rotors. Pain in the keister to buff out. Think of Harleys as sailboats, no brakes should be required to make progress. With practice and planning one can become quite adept at this new frame of reference. Life is too short to have such an aggressive a riding style so as to require front braking. | ||
| Azxb9r |
The rear brake on my wifes Fat-Boy is ultra sensitive...always has been. It seems that it is designed with two-up riding in mind, and is much too powerful for solo riding. That combined with a weak front brake(and the earlier mentioned tractor pedal for the rear) make it quite easy to lock the rear brake. | ||
| Court |
>>>Nah - It's on the rear too. The REAR is where it needs to be . . .hence the reason Ford put ABS on rears . . . years before they did on all four wheels. Interesting tale . . . . most of us have been there Training is the only cure. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Just had a big ABS thread locally. Needs to be on both front and rear. If the vehicle is properly operated ABS is 'invisible'. Makes no difference until an emergency situation. Then it is invaluable. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I use both front and rear on the street as a habit but at low speeds in parking lots and maneuvering at a walking pace, I pretty much just use the rear. | ||
| Strokizator |
The dealer can take some of the blame for the ignorance of the riding public. I was at my local HD dealer the other day (the same one Fresnobuell patronizes) when a guy was bringing in his new road glide for service. I noticed the extra wire running down the front fork leg (the only clue to an ABS equipped bike) and asked the guy how he liked the ABS brakes. He didn't even know he had it and still stopped with only the rear brake. Before sending a new rider out into the sunset, the dealer should have the guy do a few full-power stops just to see what to expect or at the very least explain how it works. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
most of us have been there True. I can remember years ago as a new rider heading up to Hollister via Hwy 25 (great ride for anyone close.) I passed a Bronco on the left as he was turning left. Combination of my losing concentration at the wrong time, my buddy riding too close on my right rear and the nearly non-existent turn signal and brake light of the Bronco (filthy dirty) almost led to a disaster. Thank God I had the speed to get around the Bronco before he closed off the entire left lane, otherwise things would have been really bad. The quick decision and total commitment to the maneuver also was crucial.....and I will not discount the luck factor either. | ||
| Arbalest |
You guys are just silly. Don't you know the rear brake does all the braking? I had a long conversation with a cruiser rider who even advised that if I really wanted to stop well, I should add some weight to the rear of the bike, so the rear tire will have more grip while braking. No kidding! And all this time, I thought the front brakes took most of the load. Just goes to prove them cruiser guys ain't as dumb as they look. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Rear brakes are handy at stop signs...after the correct brake has done it's duty  . | ||
| Fresnobuell |
so the rear tire will have more grip while braking. Well the guy I saw on Saturday should drop a couple couple 45 lb plates in his saddlebags cause he could have used that grip as he was sliding out of control towards that truck tailgate! Now that I think about it, he did an "emergency" braking maneuver and still came out in front of us at the end. Shows you how much a skidding 800 lb. motorcycle slows in a full blown rear wheel skid. | ||
| Sifo |
Of course the rear brake is meant to do most of the braking. Isn't that why the rear tire is so much bigger than the front? | ||
| Danger_dave |
No no no. It's so when you do a big broadside slide, all crossed up, into a parking spot (the one thing I do miss with rear ABS) it's a much more impressive tyre squeal. I'm limited to doing it on a Rocket III for effect now. Big noise. | ||
| Ezblast |
Thanks Dave! I knew there was a use for the rear brake, and that must be it! EZ | ||
| Kyrocket |
 Ummm Rocket III, that's what I was looking for when I got the Vulcan. Couldn't find a used Rocket for under $10K. I also want to hear about that M109 you have in the shed, one rode with us late last year, nice looking and sounding bike. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Yeah - I might do a 240 section rear tyre comapro. Let me ponder an angle. | ||
| Americanmadexb |
M109's where out in full force last Sat. I bet i seen 8-10 of them. |
