| Author | Message | ||
     Rotzaruck |
Officer Joe Warren recently finished as one of the instructors for the Hamilton County/CPD TN Motor School. There were several local PD's involved, Joe is with the Chattanooga PD. He put this video together and I have just managed to take time to watch it all. It's pretty impressive. I thought some here might enjoy it also. They don't baby the Harleys or the officers! I just hate that there are no more XB12XP's to let them demo at schools like this. I've gotten to know Joe as the Assistant Scout Master of our Boy Scout troop. He's a goodun! If he stops you coming through Chattanooga, immediately deny knowing any local Buell riders. I think he only knows one. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0hAHbjtNRQ&hd=1 I've only read how to put video on here 97 times so I don't know how yet. | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
youtube{dQw4w9WgXcQ} Put a backslash behind "youtube" and you're good to go. The 11 digit code is unique to all specific videos and can be copied from near the end of each video's URL. (Message edited by pkforbes87 on March 31, 2011) | ||
| Sub65chris |
what rig was used for the airborne shots? | ||
| 99buellx1 |
Looks like an RC aircraft to me. Cool vid! | ||
| Rotzaruck |
Thanks Phillip That makes 98, I still don't know. Maybe by 127...... Yeah, he has RC's and plays with cameras on them. He does traffic accident investigations and makes aerial shots, and is working on some other work related stuff to keep up with the bad guys. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
haha nice editing! | ||
| Sub65chris |
kinda guessed it was an rc of some kind  . what type camera etc if you know. so if i am seeing this right harleys own corners as well? albeit very slowly. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I've only read how to put video on here 97 times so I don't know how yet. Rotz, excellent vid, thx for posting-up the link. Not to worry, brother - I've never been able to figger it out, either.  Some observations: - I, apparently, am officially OLD - I had to mute the soundtrack. - It took me several attempts to get thru the opening scene, where they're instructed to throw the bikes on the ground. I understand why, but it still makes me cringe. - There must be a lot of photoshoppery going on, because as the video progresses the guys (and gal?) are doing things on Harleys that Harleys physically cannot do - everybody on this board knows that. - Love the ADV stuff towards the end - what fun! It'd be more of a challenge, tho, if they did it in winter and included a two-up glacier crossing. (Sorry, that's an inside joke; remind Nance, NUTS or Twig to tell you the story some time...) - I would LOVE to do a class like that. Ride to lean, FB | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Very Impressive! Tip of the hat to the instructors and students. | ||
| Bartimus |
Hey Ferris: " I, apparently, am officially OLD - I had to mute the soundtrack." Don't feel bad, I had to also! "It took me several attempts to get thru the opening scene, where they're instructed to throw the bikes on the ground. I understand why, but it still makes me cringe. " Understandable, but it's ok, they are just Hardleys... "There must be a lot of photoshoppery going on, because as the video progresses the guys (and gal?) are doing things on Harleys that Harleys physically cannot do - everybody on this board knows that. " I would be willing to bet a good chunk of change that you could easily perform any, and ALL of the maneuvers on this video, given enough time, and a free bike.  I am just kidding of course! Just wanted to rib ya a little bit... Definitely a good video, and it is impressive what the fine motor officers out there can do with two wheels... | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
awesome video! (minus the music, that just wasnt good) I especially liked the woods scene | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Understandable, but it's ok, they are just Hardleys... Bite me, Bart-boy! Rib away, my brudda. I've done some stuff like that on the Road King, some of it on purpose, some not. I'd dig going through a school like that. Cool to see the confidence and skill level improve as the school progressed. Musta been damn annoying, however, to be honked over in a full-lock turn, sweating bullets and hoping you don't throw your bike on the ground in front of your homies yet AGAIN, and have an RC plane buzz past your helmet at Mach 9! Fun stuff. FB | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Basic Police Motor Officer School (PMO) is tough. One MIGHT (heavy emphasis on MIGHT) be able to slide through it. At least we were allowed to use the rear brake against the clutch/throttle management. Police Motor Instructor School (PMI) is no joke!! There is no sliding/coasting going through the motions. There was NO use of the rear brake in the low speed manuvers. Clutch/throttle management only. You either grasp it or you don't. Having somehow successfully completed both courses, I can say that I "killed" my share of orange cones and I despise the 18ft circle/single 360/key hole/lollipop/whatever you want to call it. Big thumbs up to anyone who can pass either class!!! | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Jerry (or anyone else), If your ever in central Florida look me up!! I'd be more than happy to provide some instruction! PS There is a Police Motorccycle Competition at Gator Harley in Leesburg this Sat (April 2) 10-3. I'll be there competing! Look for the road king with the most lights/biggest tour pack and you'll find me! | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
There was NO use of the rear brake in the low speed manuvers. Why? Not trying to be a smartass, just curious why you wouldn't be allowed to use such a useful tool in a situation like that. Take care, FB | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Jerry, I thought exactly the same thing!! The lack of rear brake use forces better control of the motorcycle through proper clutch/throttle management. There is little or no wear/overheat issues on the rear brake and it easier on clutch. It also helps prevent the rider from "revving to the moon" while using the rear brake. (Message edited by Paint shaker on March 31, 2011) | ||
| 07xb12ss |
I went and watched some Motor-jock friends and a "rodeo" last weekend. Friendly competition between local agencies.  Click the pic. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
harley or not it makes me cringe watching some one throw one 20k bike much less a whole line of them. | ||
| 86129squids |
I keep two fingers on the front brake, I remember the rear brake. HD's and heavier bikes benefit from strong brakes, front and rear, and the judicious control of both. Variables, all. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
The lack of rear brake use forces better control of the motorcycle through proper clutch/throttle management. There is little or no wear/overheat issues on the rear brake and it easier on clutch. It also helps prevent the rider from "revving to the moon" while using the rear brake. Wow, I'm struggling with this. I can do full-lock u-turns or circles on the Road King using no rear brake, but I find it immensely easier working the rear brake against the throttle/clutch in such maneuvers. A tight, quick u-turn using the latter method requires only momentary use of the rear brake, thus no overheating worries (come to think of it, I've NEVER overheated the brakes on my RK, and I've ridden plenty of aggressive miles with competent sportbike riders), nor would a maneuver like this - or multiple maneuvers - pose any "extraordinary" wear or heat issues on the clutch, IMO, or require revving the engine excessively. These are just my opinions, and it's one of the reasons I'd love to do a school like this - there's always something to learn. I do agree that an innate sense of balance is of paramount importance to become truly comfortable riding a motorcycle in slow, tight quarters, but it sure seems to go against common sense to not be able to use the rear brake to "pivot" the bike around on in such a circumstance. Thanks for the feedback, and the invite to Florida. One of these days... FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I've never watched any of Jerry "The Motorman" Palladino's videos nor taken any of his classes, but I've studied up enough on him to come to the conclusion that I use, more or less, the same techniques he advocates when maneuvering in tight quarters. Here are some Q&A's lifted from his website. The bold emphasis is mine. I'll include a link to his site at the end of my post. Question: Will riding in the friction zone while practicing damage my clutch? Answer: No, as long as you give your bike a "breeze out" after every 5 or 10 minutes of practicing. That is, ride around the parking lot, get your bike into 2nd or 3rd gear and breeze out the engine, staying off the rear brake and clutch, giving them a chance to cool down. Keep your revs low, around 1200 to 1500 rpms and you will be fine. ---------------------------------- Question: My motorcycle has linked brakes. You advise people to feather or drag the rear brake during low speed maneuvers, but also say to never use the front brake at low speeds as it will pull you down. Does the technique still work if you have linked brakes? Answer: Yes. You can still put pressure on the rear brake to help stabilize your motorcycle at low speeds, while at the same time using the friction zone. I show this on my "Ride Like a Pro II" video on a Goldwing, Honda VTX and a BMW LT1200. For those of you not familiar with linked brakes, what that means is when you apply the rear brake, a portion of the front brake is being applied as well even if you don't pull the brake in with your hand. The fact is, that only a tiny portion of the front brake is being used when applying light pressure to the rear brake. It has little or no affect on the technique I describe. Don't even think about it. ---------------------------------- Question: Are these techniques your invention? Answer: No. The techniques have been used in Motor Officer training since the 1930's... ---------------------------------- Question: I hear you, as well as other instructors advocate rolling on the throttle in a turn. Since many riders crash while in a turn or run off the road and then crash, wouldn't rolling on the throttle cause you to crash at an even higher speed? Answer: Good question. The answer is, yes and no. If you go into a turn too fast for the bike to complete the turn, rolling on the throttle will make you crash at a higher speed, but, if you adhere to the proper techniques, rolling on the throttle will cause the bike to lift up on its suspension which will increase ground clearance which will then allow you to push harder on the bar. The bike will then lean further and lessen the chance of running wide of the turn. Here's the safest way to enter a turn. If the road curves to the right, position the bike on the left side of the lane. This will give you the best view towards the end of the turn. Do all your braking before entering the curve. That way, you're going into the turn slow and are able to roll on the throttle and safely exit the curve faster than you entered it. The harder you push on the bar, the further the bike will lean. The in slow, out fast technique will also help you in a decreasing radius turn. ---------------------------------- Question: Why does the bike fall over when using the front brake in a turn and why doesn't it fall over when using the rear brake? Answer: When your handlebars are turned and you apply the front brake, all the weight of your motorcycle plus your weight, plus your momentum, is suddenly transferred to the front wheel in what ever direction the handlebars are turned. There's no way you can handle that sudden weight shift, so down you go. Since the rear tire doesn't turn side to side, there is no sudden weight transferred in one direction or the other. In fact, if you keep power to the rear wheel and put pressure on the rear brake at the same time, you can keep the bike upright for a second or two without ever putting a foot down. When you apply the front brake, just make sure your handlebars are pointed straight ahead and remember, to squeeeeze the front brake. Don't grab it or snatch it. ---------------------------------- Question: I'm still having problems making U-Turns. My driveway is 24 feet wide, yet I can't get my Road King turned in that space. The front tire always goes off the edge into the grass. Do you think I'm not leaning enough? Answer: Since I know a Road King can turn in about 20 feet, even if you don't lean at all, I'd guess that's not the problem. You're probably looking at the edge of the driveway at the grass as you begin the turn. Remember, your hands follow your eyes. That means if you look at the grass, that's where you'll go. Here's what you need to do. You must go to an open area where there's no potential obstacles such as a curb or road edge. A parking lot is your best bet. Measure out your 24 feet and mark it off with tennis balls cut in half. If you happen to run over the tennis balls, it won't hurt a thing. With that knowledge in mind, your eyes shouldn't be drawn to the tennis balls, and you should be able to turn your head and eyes as far over your shoulder in the direction you want to go as far as possible. Stay in the friction zone, put a little pressure on the rear brake and let the bike lean. ---------------------------------- Question: I'm having a lot of trouble finding the friction zone. My clutch seems to be like an on and off switch and I can't stay in that gray area you say I'm supposed to be in. What should I do? Answer: You have found the friction zone since you must pass through it every time you start off from a stop. I think your real problem is staying in the friction zone, rather than passing through it. Keep in mind that most clutches are adjustable. Check your owners manual for the proper adjustment procedure on your bike. If you have small hands, adjust the clutch for more free play. That way, the clutch will start to grab closer to the grip and you won't have to hyper extend your fingers to manipulate the clutch. Once adjusted to your liking, let the clutch out until the bike starts to move and keep it there. You know you're in the sweet spot when you can freely rev the motor up and down without causing the bike to pick up speed or lurch ahead. To get more familiar with the friction zone, wedge a 2 x 4 in front of the rear tire and practice riding over it without the board flying up behind the bike. When you can ride over the 2 x 4 without it moving, you've mastered the friction zone. ---------------------------------- Another U-Turn Question: Why do I have problems making U-turns? I've taken the MSF course and I know about head and eyes, but I still can't seem to turn my bike without duck walking it around a U-turn. Answer: Though you've taken the MSF course and they've told you about head and eyes, the friction zone and using the rear brake, they haven't told you how to apply those techniques properly. Here's the U-turn drill. Assuming you're going to make a left hand U-turn. Decide exactly where you are going to start your turn, put your foot on the rear brake, get in the friction zone, dip your bike to the right so that your front tire is heading towards the right side of the edge of the street. As soon as you reach that point, turn your HEAD AND EYES as far as you can to the left. Never, ever look at the opposite edge of the road where you don't want the bike to go. The further you lean the bike, the tighter the turn you can make. There is no production bike I know of that cannot make a turn in less than 24 feet. In the deepest part of the lean, bring the revs up a little, slip the clutch a little more and put a little more pressure on the rear brake. All the time, keeping your head and eyes focused on where you want the bike to go. Think of how an owl turns his head completely around, that's what you should look like when executing a U-turn properly. And this, from his "About Us" page: What do Police Motor Officers know about riding that you don’t? Simply put, these officers know three techniques. Just three. To paraphrase Mr. Palladino, these three techniques are: - Look where you want to go - Stay in the "friction zone" - Use your rear brake to help pivot the bike Take care, FB http://www.ridelikeapro.com/ http://www.ridelikeapro.com/home/faq http://www.ridelikeapro.com/about-us | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
PS: so if i am seeing this right harleys own corners as well? albeit very slowly. Sub65chris, I've tried to let your comment go, really I have. We need to go flog some twisties together some time. Take care, FB | ||
| Tiltcylinder |
If you ever get the chance to go to a PMO... go! It's way more fun than you can imagine. Being told to ride up or down a set of stairs on a road king... priceless. You'll learn a lot that becomes ingrained, automatic and improves your riding. I was laughing at my inability to do the key holes and figure eights (in a standard parking space) but asked them to lead me through it. I NEVER did full lock turns, it was a sure fall to the ground on a dirt bike, they broke that bad (25 plus years old) habit in twenty minutes. Now still a bit amazed when I find myself at full lock and heeling over in a parking lot without thinking about it... Oh, the ability to remain motionless and upright on a bike is a great skill to bring to school. They play follow the leader, and the instructors like to lead you into an eighteen inch deep puddle, the stop, this causes the class to end up with soaked boots  | ||
| Dcc46 |
That school is definitely worth taking if you ever get the chance, one thing i'm glad i got to do before i retired. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
DISCLAIMER: Police motorcycle rodeos and basic motor school are 2 very different environments, each with very different goals to achieve. Think of the rear brake as a crutch. Yes it makes somethings a lot easier to do. Take away the rear brake and you forced to be smooth and REALLY use the friction zone and you become that much better. Thus you learn to have greater control over the motorcycle and can use the rear break to correct or "save" yourself. Or... Rear brake = High school diploma in slow speed manuvers. No Rear brake = Master Degree in slow speed manuvers. I have seen it several times at police motor rodeos where they have a "no brake" section of the course. Those riders who have never tried it without the rear brake almost always freak out. LOL It is quite amusing to watch as well. The Motorman dude is quite an accomplished rider and teaches good stuff. He has a lot of good info and the average joe would benefit from it. Some interesting notes; In both the basic and the intructor courses nearly all turns are based on a radius of 9 feet or diameter of 18 feet. A Roadking/Electra Glide is able to complete a circle or u-turn in 17.5 feet, without scraping the floorboards( if I recall correctly the BMW Police bike can do it in 16 feet). My final exam for PMI class was 2 back to back runs or 2 out of 3 runs with NO cones touched, NO cones down, No foot down, No motor down, no running out of the pattern and NO rear brake (save for the braking exercises)!!!! This was a combo of the slow speed cone patterns and high speed evasive manuvers done in succession without interruption between attempts. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Looks like I've got some more practicing to do. Take care, FB | ||
| Tiltcylinder |
Paint_shaker, it's got to be less than 17.5'. Our 'big' figure eight box is only 15 by 30. In at any point you like, two complete figure eights, and out again. I think the instructors shrink it to 12 by 24. Of course, dragging floor boards is acceptable. They actually gave me a hard time initially... I prefer initial braking and clutch/throttle only, they wanted us to use/drag the rear brake. "Your school, your rule". Did realize the rear brake will make the bikes 'stand up' through the transitions much easier though. Confidence, looking where you want to go(concentrated, committed and unhesitating), smoothness at the controls and a bit of practice does wonders. Already spent an early sunday morning twisting, turning and weaving the XT through the cones (imaginary) at a local beach parking lot last month. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I've never "measured" any slow-speed maneuvers on my RK. If the weather cooperates this weekend I'll see what it (and I) can do. What do the PMO's/PMI's teach regarding use of the rear brake in high-speed situations? | ||
| U4euh |
If the weather cooperates this weekend I'll see what it (and I) can do. Just dont throw it on the ground first!!! If you took the class you'd probably come out of it with a job!!! | ||
| 86129squids |
Here's a neat story about good peeps in Memphis TN... http://www.therepublic.com/view/story/557600efd482 4e62825b5ad4f417a5f7/TN--Memphis-Motorcycle-Police / |
