| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
For those that seem so offended when someone says something like "our God given rights, I have a question for you. Are you equally offended when Obama talks of "collective salvation" to promote socialist policies? Just wondering. I'd love to hear your views. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
What about their rights? www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbZ_uGucZCQ | ||
| Sifo |
What rights were violated? They were simply asked to not break administrative codes and told they could display their silly sign elsewhere.  | ||
| Sifo |
How about the collective salvation question? | ||
| Blake |
Caterpillar considering leaving Illinois due to heavy tax burden... http://www.pantagraph.com/news/local/article_3c235 90c-572a-11e0-afc0-001cc4c002e0.html | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
He's just mad it will cut into his yacht budget, right?  We will welcome with open arms the international Caterpillar Headquarters and manufacturing plant to sunny Tennessee/Alabama/South Carolina/Mississippi/Texas. The people are much nicer.  | ||
| Strokizator |
Here's news flash for the libs. The USA is NOT the richest country in the world. Not only do we have no money, we have less than no money. The national debt is over 14 trillion dollars. We quite simply cannot afford to continue to give stuff away no matter how much anyone whines or stomps their feet. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Jeremey now we see what the real issue is Hate heathens hate God then say every one else that wont buy into their warped image of right and wrong are Evil. Once again notice any mention is God makes the lefty libs nuts. The lefts entire postion is based on a hatred Of God. The problem with our system is its reliance on a ethical and moral people. A Moral and ethical people take care of each other rather than leaving them to the Governmemts clutches. The left wants to spend every one elses mony to help others LEFTYS I choose who and how I help other its not your choice If you force me to give at your will and not mine there will nothing to give or jobs created, I wont be a slave to produce value for you to give to others. | ||
| Strokizator |
Ken, you've touched upon an important difference. Conservatives view liberals as simplistically idealistic, naive and sometimes even stupid. Liberals on the other hand view conservatives as EVIL. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Deep down, I believe that Americans want to help other Americans (and people around the world). The issue, as surfaces with venom from time to time, is that those who seek to provide for others without the moral, ethical, and spiritual basis of faith MUST replace God and faith with Government. There can be no other option. It is the new faith of Secular Humanism, that we are all that there is and there is no moral authority higher than humanity. I am a friend of the American Atheists on FB. I go there to read how those who have rejected God believe. I don't find peace and tranquility. I find mostly bitterness and hatred. The universal theme is that if the world was free of all religion, it would be a utopia. What I also find interesting is that there is not a single incidence where the increase of atheism creates less crime, less war, less strife. You'd think that if faith in God were the cause of every ill in the world that the progressive reduction of God in society would have an inverse relationship with peace and tranquility. It simply isn't the case. What is at issue here is the natural tendencies of man. Specifically what choices man, left to his own devices, makes. Those choices, for the most part, are rarely EVER positive. Provide free stuff, and the result is not man with restraint taking only what is needed and leaving the rest for others. It is greed and selfishness. The Framers of the Constitution understood that even good intentions are corrupted by government, by the natural tendencies of man. They sought to prevent the government from becoming the arbiter of morality, fairness, and grant. Adams, who was not a particularly religious person, understood that only a people governed by faith and morality were capable of living under the Constitution: “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious people. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.” John Adams also understood that we must hold steadfast to the freedoms granted under the Constitution, that the slippery slope of government over reach would spell the end of freedom: "A Constitution of Government once changed from Freedom, can never be restored. Liberty, once lost, is lost forever." I fear that we are very close to losing freedom forever. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Stroke as I have stated here before liberals etc project who they really are on others. They are so full of self loathing and evil they think every one else is as well. Totally incapable of self improvement they insist others change to thier distorted world view. Gay marriage and the gay agenda are nothing less than a plea for validation. If your a sick twisted freak no legal changes or validation will change the fact your doing something wrong. This is why so many flee from any mention of God Contemplatng God reminds them of their sin. Till they confront the only way to be forgiven of that sin peace will elude them. We do not need to do any thing to the liberals they will exterminate them selves look at the abortion rate among the so called educated liberals. Name another bunch of fools so eager to kill thier own unborn children. If this is what universitys teach they then should be burned down. Only the mass breeders in nature eat thier young. | ||
| Blake |
Careful Ken. Being "a sick twisted freak" is in no way limited to homosexual behavior. Any promiscuous behavior fits that characterization in the eye's of God. All of us fall short; homosexuals are no worse or no better. The adulterers have made a lot more headway in achieving validation for their misbehavior than have the homosexuals, and adultery is one of the big ten. Homosexuality is not, though it is indeed characterized as an abomination to god. Hey Rocco, Your hostility is elevated even for you. Sounds like you could use a nice warm beach vacation. Come south and relax for a while. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Rocco just got back from Arizona. I do believe returning to the frozen north has placed him in a grumpier mood. | ||
| Aussie2126 |
Not too long ago, people got cancer and if it was inoperable or metastasized, they just died. Then some bright enterprising folks invented some incredible detection and treatment regimes. But they are complicated and rightly very expensive. So everyone is entitled to it, just because it exists? Since when? And why? Because you have a soft heart? Okay, you pay for those whom you wish to help, and the rest of us will do so as well, deal? Or is it that you demand to be able to force at the point of a gun everyone else to hand over their property towards what you decide is best? Yep, that's it. Moochers and looters. I'd rather die than steal from others in order to live a little longer. <<<<<In the National Cancer Act of 1971, NCI was given the authority to prepare and submit an annual budget proposal directly to the President for review and transmittal to Congress. This authority is unique to NCI and allows it to “bypass” the traditional approvals that all other NIH Institutes and Centers must receive for their budget requests. For this reason, NCI’s budget proposal is often referred to as the “Bypass Budget.” The Bypass Budget is submitted to the President before the President’s Budget proposal is submitted to Congress. The Bypass Budget may be considered by OMB in preparing the President’s Budget proposal. NCI Bypass Budgets describe in detail the optimum amount of funding needed to make the most rapid progress against cancer and to provide NCI with the resources necessary to lead the National Cancer Program. Typically, the President’s Budget proposal for NCI is less than the amount proposed in the Bypass Budget. What was NCI’s budget for Fiscal Year (FY) 2009? How has the budget changed in recent years? NCI’s budget for FY 2009 was $4.97 billion, excluding the additional $1.26 billion in American Recovery and Reinvestment Act (ARRA) funds received by the Institute for spending in FY 2009 and FY 2010. Overall, the NCI budget has been relatively flat in recent years. During the period from 2004 through 2009, NCI’s budget averaged $4.81 billion per year. In FY 2008, it was $4.83 billion; in FY 2007, it was $4.79 billion.<<<< Blake Why should everyone have access? Because Richard Nixon signed the National Cancer Act in 1971 and since that time we have all paid billions of dollars funding the research that makes your treatment possible Do you really think those clever people started looking for this in their garage, forty years, ago with their own money??? According to the tone of this thread... for at least the years 2004 to 2006 George Bush and the republican controlled congress were all socialists -4.81 billion dollars for cancer research even in those years. SOCIALISTS!!! If I ever am unfortunate enough to get cancer.... I guess I will have to refuse treatment... I certainly don't want to be a looter and moocher like Richard Nixon. | ||
| Sifo |
The ironies in this sort of conversation are many. For a while there was some pretty good back and forth without insults, name calling etc. As certain ideas were clarified and backed with real world current examples the rational back and forth became more limited. Direct questions went ignored and attempts made to suddenly change the topic. Then those who constantly complain about how BadWeb isn't what it used to be come in with simply hateful comments. Is that what BadWeb used to be? I have my doubts. I have no doubt that the gradual change from dialog to hateful comments comes as a viewpoint can no longer be supported with known facts. Yet that viewpoint remains unyielding. This is a pattern that I have seen repeated for many years. It's a pattern that I really can't seem to understand though. There certainly have been believes in my life that have been challenged, and proven to be false. That's when it's time to discard those false beliefs. To do otherwise is insanity. It's not that I really expect someone to come forward and say, "Wow, I've just changed my viewpoint", but I just don't see how you can have your viewpoint challenged beyond defense repeatedly and still come back with the same viewpoint. That really does seem like a mental disorder. For the life of me, I wish I could understand that. The sad thing is that this seems to lead to the hit and run tactic that Rocco & Crusty display. There's no longer any attempt to support their view points. It's nothing but venomous attacks on those that disagree. If that's your view of how things should work on a discussion board, then I hope the door does hit you on the way out. The left loves to promote college education. College of course is where we are supposed to support critical thinking and open exchanges of ideas. The reality is that they exert great pressure through political correctness to control and shape the ideas that are discussed in college. Look here for a current example. I understand that some professors sent out campus wide emails crying racism in this case. Sounds very similar to the hit and run hateful sort of rebuttals we see here too. Unfortunately this thinking leads to more serious and concrete problems. This is how a President who has made a carrier out of being anti-war can retain support when he suddenly starts a new war, outside of his legal authority under our Constitution and laws, without any explanation of how it is in the best interest to our nation, and still manages to retain support. Clearly that support isn't based on the following of any clearly thought out principles. That support continues through blind ideology. I'm convinced that this is true for so many of the failing programs we see coming from big government policies. It's time to stop blindly following ideology. The future of our country is at stake in this. If we refuse to be lead by facts and truth we are bound to fail as a nation. Our founders laid out and amazing document based on clearly thought out principles. Following these principles has built the US into a great nation, the likes of which the world has never seen before. We are now actively seeking to ignore those same principles that made us a great nation. I would love to see some honest discussion on why some people support this, but I'm really not so naive to think that this will ever happen. The real conflict is coming. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Aussie, is it your contention that the ONLY funds being spent on cancer research those budgeted under the NCA? What is the total annual expenditure on cancer research from ALL sources? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Your right Blake my contextual usage of Sick twisted freak was too limited. STF covers a lot of territory! Thanks for helping me to reinforce my arguement. A post on badweb is inadequate to properly cover a subject when a treatise on ( We are the ones to get your "Ism "right this time) would be 5-600 pages | ||
| Blake |
$4.8B amounts to about $16 per American per year, a whole $1.33 per month. 1. That is meager compared to the cost of major cancer treatment. 2. That funding is paid for by productive tax paying folks, not by those who don't pay any income tax, so to argue that everyone deserves free treatment because some tax revenue is used to support the NIC defies logic. 3. That funding is also largely aimed at identifying risk factors and preventative measures, information that is freely provided to ALL so ALL people can make informed decisions about what they should both avoid (like breathing asbestos dust, smoking tobacco, a sedentary lifestyle, obesity, high fat low fiber diets, over-eating...) and embrace (like exercise and proper/beneficial diet) in order to help prevent cancer, and also to help educate folks on symptoms and early detection. For a $1.33 per month, we all have access to that excellent information free of charge. What you are asserting however is that those who ignore it and choose to engage in unhealthy, high risk behavior and even those who don't pay any income tax deserve free treatment paid for by others? Others should be forced to pay for it? Why? Your first answer is a major fail. Try again. Trying to find out what exactly teh NIC spends their money on is maddening. One example... This is typical of how they waste taxpayer money. A lot of what I read on their site is indicative of con artistry, people writing a lot of words in order to get others to part with their hard-earned money. I'm sure some of it is good, but it appears incredibly poorly managed with a bunch of open-ended goals and high-minded, ivory-towered philosophizing. Let Donald Trump run the place. Results or you're fired. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I certainly don't want to be a looter and moocher like Richard Nixon. It is exactly that kind of dishonest debate nonsense that turns me off. Wanna try to be honest and restate that? Seems that you are contending that Nixon was a proponent of nanny-state provided health care for all, free cancer treatment for all. The accurate statement would be that Nixon supported some limited national effort in facilitating cancer research, partly by empowering the decades old National Cancer Institute. That is it. It is a lie to say that Nixon or any conservative favored taxpayer funded socialized cancer treatment for all. But that is exactly what you are contending. Liars suck. Don't be one. | ||
| Sifo |
>>> I certainly don't want to be a looter and moocher like Richard Nixon. It is exactly that kind of dishonest debate nonsense that turns me off. Wanna try to be honest and restate that? Seems that you are contending that Nixon was a proponent of nanny-state provided health care for all, free cancer treatment for all. The accurate statement would be that Nixon supported some limited national effort in facilitating cancer research, partly by empowering the decades old National Cancer Institute. That is it. It is a lie to say that Nixon or any conservative favored taxpayer funded socialized cancer treatment for all. But that is exactly what you are contending. Liars suck. Don't be one.  | ||
| Aussie2126 |
Blake: OK then... how's this... Nixon supported taking federal tax dollars and spending it on research that would only benefit the corporations that would take the medical treatments that were developed, and their rich customers that can afford it. I thought I was giving him the benefit of the doubt by "calling him a socialist". Which one is it. Either way - or some middle ground that you may choose to explain it with... The fact is we have spent billions of dollars of government money on research and on those "damn universities" to get where we are at. If Corporations and "we" use that only for our own benefit then... I, for one, am uncomfortable calling anybody else a "looter and a moocher" Obviously, feel free to do as you see fit. | ||
| Sifo |
Aussie, Your entire assertion fails with the lie that only the rich can afford cancer treatment. Many people who are not rich are smart enough to purchase insurance to cover this sort of expense. There are also many charities and government programs to help those who weren't as smart. Perhaps Blake will choose to get into other problems with your assertion. There are many. I'll stop by simply addressing the dishonesty. | ||
| Court |
>>>Aussie, is it your contention that the ONLY funds being spent on cancer research those budgeted under the NCA? I noticed that. Filed this under "kids play on the internet" and clicked to the next thread. The small mind is easily entertained. It concerns me a bit, but not much, that folks actually believe some of this silliness. I feel more strongly than ever that those poor Wisconsin kids should not have missed school that day, regardless of what "rights" they may or may not have had, to hang their sign. My thinking is that if you can't READ the sign . . you shouldn't be hanging it. | ||
| Sifo |
I feel more strongly than ever that those poor Wisconsin kids should not have missed school that day, regardless of what "rights" they may or may not have had, to hang their sign. My thinking is that if you can't READ the sign . . you shouldn't be hanging it. I saw a protest sign on the news today that read "I'd rather be teaching in school today". I have to wonder why she isn't teaching in school today. Who is applying pressure on her to not teach school today? My guess would be the teachers union. Very dishonest. | ||
| Aussie2126 |
OK so lets say that only one tenth of the research that the feds did led to these wondorous discoveries. Let's also say that some people have insurance because they are smart. The five year old has not gotten smart yet. She is not lucky enough to have attracted the attention of a suitable charity - let's say a GENEROUS charity to cover luekemia treatments. The "government programs to help out" should have been cut according to previous posts - isn't that what we are advocating here? I get to benefit from the billions in government spending on the "one tenth of research" because I am SMART!!! (it's not luck that I am still employed by a good company and she is not). Somehow I STILL, am uncomfortable calling her a looter and a moocher. Am I still also not a "looter and moocher" for the billions spent on 1/10 of the research??? | ||
| Sifo |
Are you trying to argue for a system where there is no one who ever doesn't get the best theoretically possible treatment for a given illness? I'm all for a system that does well for the vast majority of the people. How about filling in some details. Exactly what is it that you are pushing towards. Exactly what government program that will treat a 5 year old cancer patient is being proposed to be shut down? I think you are being purposefully vague. That allows for very idealistic proposals without ever examining how it will work. | ||
| Sifo |
Aussie, never mind bothering to answer. I went back searching for the word cancer. You are talking about a BS idea that you floated yourself. Nice try, but very disingenuous. You are quickly following in the steps of Rocco & Crusty. I can't say that I'm surprised. | ||
| Crusty |
Aussie; that's a compliment. | ||
| Aussie2126 |
Thanks Crusty. I can only aspire to someday get there! | ||
| Union_man |
I'm a public employee. I am not the problem. Teachers, police officers, paramedics, firefighters, road workers etc. are NOT the enemy. If you are jealous of our benefits, FIGHT FOR YOUR OWN, not against ours. The rich who created this crisis are pitting middle class families against each other. We live here, pay taxes, work hard & try to support our families too. |
