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Author Message   Blake Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:28 pm:        You hear that type of statement fairly regularly in conversation and by pundits. Without looking up the answer on the internet, what portion of our national debt do you imagine China owns?   Two_seasons Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:32 pm:        just a guess...1/3 of our nat'l debt?   Sayitaintso Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:32 pm:        iirc, it is something like 10-15% but I'll be looking after I post this   Sayitaintso Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:37 pm:        I won't spoil it....but after looking I'm not too surprised.   Pammy Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:44 pm:        Data summary MAJOR FOREIGN HOLDERS OF TREASURY SECURITIES $bn at end of period. Click heading to sort table. Download this data SOURCE: US Treasury Country Oct 2010. Oct 2009. Oct 2008. % change Oct 2008-Oct 2010 China, Mainland 906.8 938.3 684.1 32.6 Japan 877.4 742.9 629.6 39.4 United Kingdom 477.6 105.7 133.2 258.6 Oil Exporters 213.9 209 176.7 21.1 All Other 161 158 149.1 8.0 Brazil 177.6 164.9 141 26.0 Carib Bnkng Ctrs 133.7 114 203.5 -34.3 Hong Kong 139.2 137.8 69.8 99.4 Taiwan 131.2 115.6 65.9 99.1 Russia 131.6 145.9 110.8 18.8 Switzerland 101.3 85.2 62 63.4 Canada 125.2 44.8 14 794.3 Luxembourg 78.5 79.5 100.8 -22.1 Thailand 66.2 28 34 94.7 Germany 60.1 47.9 53.7 11.9 Singapore 63.6 36.3 34 87.1 Ireland 41.4 42.6 35.1 17.9 Korea, South 41.1 43.3 36.2 13.5 India 41.1 35.8 18.3 124.6 Mexico 34.9 26.5 32.2 8.4 France 35.1 29.1 20.5 71.2 Belgium 15.7 16.9 15.8 -0.6 Egypt 34.9 14.3 16.7 109.0 Turkey 27.6 30.3 27.9 -1.1 Poland 26.3 21.9 Italy 21 21.6 15.3 37.3 Norway 18.7 7.3 11.5 62.6 Netherlands 14.6 20.5 15.7 -7.0 Colombia 17.3 18.3 11.3 53.1 Israel 17.9 14.5 12.4 44.4 Sweden 15 15.3 13.5 11.1 Philippines 12.9 11.4 12.1 6.6 Chile 13.6 12.4 15 -9.3 Australia 11.8 12.8 Malaysia 11.6 11.7 8.6 34.9 Spain 13.1 Grand Total 4310.2 3573.1 2980.3 44.62 Put in a table for you I know its hard to read but the debt owned is from 2008 to 2010 with the percentage change at the end. It relates debt to administration. I will have to research to see just how far it goes back. Wow, I was shocked at the UK amount. (Message edited by froggy on March 01, 2011)   Ohsoslow Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:45 pm:        crash and burn   Sayitaintso Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 01:50 pm:        If they do anything drastic they slit their own throats. To me this is a case of perception being as (if not more) than reality.   Xbniner Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 02:29 pm:        Looks like about 21%. What's scarier is that 44.62% at the bottom that shows the increase in just the last two years. And the 3 before that were likely a worse number yet.   Blake Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 03:21 pm:        Man for a second there I thought Pammy put up a table! Thanks Frog Man! Currently the number is $1.16T out of $14T, so roughly 8%. http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20110228/pl_afp/usecon omyfinancebondschina Not quite so alarming as far as percent of our debt goes. I was surprised, thought it was more like 20%. I wonder what percentage of China's reserves that amounts to? Who's the real chump in the deal?   Pammy Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 03:51 pm:        Hell, I'm lucky I can post at all. Thanks Froggy!   Pammy Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 03:59 pm:        So we are beholding to China 1.16T vs the 684.1b from 2008....That's a chunk o change. No pun intended.   Sayitaintso Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 04:10 pm:        8% doesn't sound so bad...... $1,600,000,000,000 is a very hard number to get a handle on. An example of one trillion As for the example below...the US debt is over 14 trillion ow not the 5 as stated. Per NASA, How Big is a Trillion? In the U.S., one trillion is written as the number "1" followed by 12 zeros (1,000,000,000,000). One year of clock time = (60sec/min) x (60 min/hr) x (24 hr/da) x (365.25 da) = 3.16 x 107 sec One trillion seconds of ordinary clock time = ( 1012 sec)/( 3.16 x 107 sec/yr) = 31,546 years! Six trillion seconds equals 189,276 years. Now, as an aside, along with the nearly six trillion miles in the light-year, you might be interested to know that there are nearly five trillion dollars in the current U.S. national debt. Is it any wonder that our politicians in Washington are concerned? (An interesting bit of trivia: If one were to count the national Debt at the rate of one dollar per second, he or she would have to use a mechanical counter to click off the digits. Why? Because, if he or she counted in the usual way, saying "one, two, three, …" etc., there would be numbers whose names are so large, that it would take more than a second of clock time to pronounce them. For example: "Nine hundred and ninety nine billion, nine hundred and ninety nine million, nine hundred and ninety nine thousand, nine hundred and ninety nine," takes about 8 seconds to pronounce.)   Badlionsfan Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 04:15 pm:        Glad to see we're squaring things up with Luxembourg.   Ferris_von_bueller Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 04:24 pm:        (Message edited by Ferris_von_bueller on March 01, 2011)   Johnnylunchbox Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 04:40 pm:          Shellyo Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 05:47 pm:        It's not so much the dollar value, it's what they've bought with those dollars. In Canada, as a resource rich country, it seems to be a losing battle keeping Canadian ownership of mining, coal and oil. Lots of overseas interest in those commodities.   Rex Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 07:22 pm:        I wonder if we subtract what we send these countries in Aid from what we owe them?   Slaughter Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 08:13 pm:        Those numbers are JUST TREASURY SECURITIES - a big number, yes but only part of our indebtedness. Look at the businesses that are "partnered" with Chinese businesses and have obligations as a result. Think TRADE DEFICIT - add those costs hidden in the implication that the ONLY debt is T-bonds held. I need to go look it up but heard that the CBO's own figures showed the costs of just SERVICING the debt to China will exceed their entire defense budget by the end of 2020   Ferris_von_bueller Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 08:17 pm:        The world is heading for a meltdown.   Blake Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 08:24 pm:        No worries Steve, they just print the cash to pay 'em off. China is understandably upset. I will be too when my retirement savings end up being worth a fraction of what they otherwise would have.   Slaughter Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2011 - 09:33 pm:        Hey printing cash? Why we gotta do that, we'll just BORROW.

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