| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2011/feb/28/fi nancial-terrorism-suspected-in-08-economic-crash/ This is something I've wondered about ever since learning about how al qaeda played the market knowing of their 9/11 plans. If this suspicioun is borne out, it's time to get really nasty with the evil scum jihadis. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
You must be a reader of the Drudge Report  | ||
| Blake |
Drudge rules!  | ||
| Rainman |
Don't let the Wall Street freaks off the hook. I'm not saying enemies didn't play a role, but I doubt that they created all of the bizarre, meaningless investments and transactions and the greed that led to burst bubbles. Go ahead and get nasty with the scum just because of who and what they are. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Too bad they can't do like that Tom Clancy novel, reset the books to December 31, 2007, and pretend like the last 4 years never happened! | ||
| Iamike |
I heard some Hollywood nut-job complained at the Oscars (I never watch that claptrap) that none of the investment company chiefs have gone to jail over the financial disaster. I just wonder if he feels that same about the politicians that were in cahoots with them? | ||
| Kiwicris |
There is no terrorism involved in the "financial crisis" . .it has been perpetrated by the banksters with help from their bought and paid for congresscritters (check out political donations)who modified the Glass-Stegal Act allowing the banks to get up to all sorts of schemes. they keep the profits but taxpayers get to pick up the tab for the loses. The USA is bankrupt and the govt is desperate to have the citizens focusing the blame anywhere but where it belongs,or the riots in Egypt will be nothing to what will happen in the USA. . . think 2nd amendment !! This is why the continual demonizing of China,etc and this latest pathetic attempt by the pentagon to blame muslims. If you want to know what goes on in the world and your country in particular, step one is TURN OFF THE GODDAMNED T.V. it is so full of propaganda it is nothing more than a mass mind control device . "everything is wonderfull . . dont think about the economy/all the homes being fraudulently repossessed/our pet dictators guarding our oil being deposed, Think about Charlie Sheen . . (gotta make him look bad - he asked obuma 20 questions about 911 that Obuma will never/cannot ever answer because to do so will open up another 100 questions.) look at Lindsay Lohen's boobs. Take yourself away from the corporate controlled media the ABCNNBCBS/FOX. start educating yourselves - alot already have - about the crushing of the USA the destruction of the middle class, the fact that republican or democrat are both the same - they take their marching orders from the corporations and israel. Check out videos at the Daily Bail http://dailybail.com spend a few undisturbed hours absorbing the information there...Then go to Bankers gone wild at WRH http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/wildbank ers.php it's long and goes back to the start of banking but when you get to the end if you aren't very angry with what is being done to you then you were'nt paying attention or you are in denial . .and that ain't the river in Egypt !! couple of months ago there was something quite critical of the US foreign policy in Time magazines cover story . . . the US issue had a different cover story . So you guys get one thing the world gets the truth Forget left and right, liberal and conservative - you are all Americans and this other stuff is used to divide and distract from whats really important. . . and I'm taking Buells out of the conversation on whats important. . that goes without saying. | ||
| Blake |
Dude, No one gets the truth. | ||
| Blake |
You forgot the part about congress and community organizers pushing banks to make really bad loans. The reworking of the community reinvestment act. No bank plans to fail. | ||
| Kiwicris |
Blake, You seem to have posted within 9 minutes of me . .you cant have even looked at the "Bankers Gone Wild" page and videos it contains. The whole federal reserve system is nothing more than an elaborate ponzi scheme. Think "bigger picture" here Blake. There are people out there who've had homes foreclosed on with out missing a payment - ever !! Try a google search on "never missed a payment house foreclosed on" This crisis came to a head when central banks in Europe realised the AAA rated bundled mortgages they'd bought were worthless and wanted Lehmans,BofA, Goldman Sachs, Citi, etc to buy them back . .or else. Thus the mad scramble in 08 to print up tons of "stimulus money" 'Member that $700 million that congress was arguing about having to get put thru real quick to avert marshall law?? while the american public was distracted with that billions were going out the backdoor to foreign central banks. Ron Paul (R-Texas) and Allan Grayson (ex Dem ) - have/had been holding the feds feet to the fire since 08 at least. Watching officials from treasury and the fed squirm while Paul asks how much ("don't know") to whom ("don't know" or "Commercially sensitive")has the money gone shows how out of control the federal govt and the Banks are, with you and your children and their children are paying off the accumulated debt. These "Toxic assets" are fraudulent mortgages and the foreclosure mills and MERS are out and out criminal enterprises that the banks and their lackeys (Barney Frank being one) are trying to retrospectively pass laws to make legal. It's starting to be out there but the only time you'll start to read that this is a massive fraud in the main stream media is when they realise too many "man-on-the-street types know whats going on and to not cover/do stories on it will make it obvious that they are part of it or part of the cover up As to people getting mortgages, especially ones who,in a system that was functioning correctly would've been laughed out the door, they only got them because the rules were relaxed so banks could qualify them them. And not understanding balloon payments and adjustings rates set them up from day one. Its a mess Blake, but it's all been planned - from the outsourcing of jobs to the destruction of the middle class to the CDO's and the rest of the alphabet acronyms portrayed as risk free investments - globalisation will only work when everyone (read workers)are all reduced to roughly the same level . . bare subsistance. and it's coming to a city and a street near you as I type this. I can't see any trickle down effect, but there is a torrent up one !! p.s. Every President who has tried to rein in the banks and launch an American Govt owned/operated bank as oppossed to a private central bank has been assasinated in office. | ||
| Aesquire |
look at Lindsay Lohen's boobs most sensible thing ever written in a political thread. | ||
| Glitch |
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| Slaughter |
look at Lindsay Lohen's boobs most sensible thing ever written in a political thread. This thread is WORTHLESS without pictures! | ||
| Hootowl |
"You forgot the part about congress and community organizers pushing banks to make really bad loans. The reworking of the community reinvestment act." This will always be glossed over or omitted by those with an agenda. | ||
| 86129squids |
What Slaughter said... | ||
| Sifo |
"You forgot the part about congress and community organizers pushing banks to make really bad loans. The reworking of the community reinvestment act." This will always be glossed over or omitted by those with an agenda.  It's hard to understand why people don't understand that the whole melt down would never have happened if people didn't default on their mortgages. Fannie & Freddie mortgages were given to people who obviously would be likely to default. This was the faulty cornerstone of the whole crisis. There are people out there who've had homes foreclosed on with out missing a payment - ever !! Try a google search on "never missed a payment house foreclosed on" I did that. I pretty much found 3 categories of stories. 1) A video of an interview where you have a lady making claims that are clearly inaccurate to anyone who has worked in the mortgage industry. 2) A single case of BofA and a convoluted set of circumstances (varies slightly from one story to the next) and ends in foreclosure. I really have no idea what happened in this one case, but on case isn't exactly a systemic problem. 3) People seeking mortgage modification under BO's new law where you get a lower payment while your case is considered. Virtually no one really qualifies for this and when the modification is denied they don't have the cash to make the payments in arrears. The third category is really the only one that is factual and widespread. Unfortunately this was done to these people by the government. look at Lindsay Lohen's boobs  | ||
| Jb2 |
+1 Drudge Rocks! Where's the pictures? Don't make me go to ADV and search Toxic Britney!  | ||
| Blake |
Thanks Tom (Sifo). Excellent investigating. Chris, Sorry bro, I'm not following you. From what I've been able to find, the whole thing is just another all too predictable result of government activism, pushing bad loans on banks partly by telling them they have no worries, fannie and freddie will back them. Then only requiring fannie and freddie to maintain a few percent in capital of what they were backing. REALLY dumb. Some tried to have that changed, to introduce stricter requirements, like say 5%. The Dems in congress cried bloody murder and would have none of it. Up to the end, key Dem congressmen were declaring that fannie and freddie were just great, a good investment. | ||
| Aesquire |
Another myth is that the bad loans that hurt the banks were the ones to poor folk who, with even a small financial setback, could not keep up. Not exactly true. The law was for those people, and, taken in a vacuum, was a "good thing". 'Hoods with owners are cleaner, have less crime, better citizens than 'hoods with renters. True, all true. The real monetary crunch came when "Flip This House" tv shows, and a deluge of get rich quick ads got what we shall charitably call yuppie scum to buy 1/4 & 1/2 million$ houses with no money down, ( advanced by govt. agencies like Suny Mae, who did so for ME ) with no intention of living in them, to flip and make quick bucks. THAT is what fueled the big housing price boom of the late 90's and early 21st century. The prices of houses went artificially high, all on unrealistic hopes that "the paradigm had shifted" and "this I would be very interested to see how much money in bad loans was lost to poor folk living on the edge, and how much to yuppie scum living on a very different edge.  | ||
| Aesquire |
This is why the continual demonizing of China,etc and this latest pathetic attempt by the pentagon to blame muslims. I agree on the demonizing of China. Their actions ( in world finance ) are, while self serving, logical and in the short term, smart for them. Screw everyone else. The fact that China is still a dictatorship that murders it's own people without conscience or hesitation is not relevant to a financial discussion. but. "latest pathetic attempt"?? Suspects include financial enemies in Middle Eastern states, Islamic terrorists, hostile members of the Chinese military, or government and organized crime groups in Russia, Venezuela or Iran. Chinese military officials publicly have suggested using economic warfare against the U.S. While I find China, Russia, Venezuela & Iran prime suspects in any tampering with world finance, the money laundering abilities of the jihadi groups is well known. ( and paid for, in large part, by the prime suspects themselves. ( and of course our oil money as filtered through the middle east & Indonesia )) Iran, in particular has been a major source for counterfeit dollars. As far as I can tell, no one blames "muslims". Jihadis, sure. While I have my complaints about the basic nature of Islam, ( I'm not in submission to Allah, and so am only under death threats if I criticize. ) it is the islamo-fascist Jihad movement that is to blame for much of the planet's oppression and murder. ( not, I freely admit, most, that title goes to Communism/Progressivism/marxism/etc. ) IMHO, with few facts, I'd guess the still kicking "Evil Empire" guys first bet for money manipulation. G. Soros and his vast holding in foreign drilling in the Gulf of Mexico, ( where the U.S. is forbidden to drill by illegal executive order ) would also be high on my list. Jihadi jerks though possible, were probably tossed in the article reflexively. | ||
| Sifo |
I would be very interested to see how much money in bad loans was lost to poor folk living on the edge, and how much to yuppie scum living on a very different edge. There is no doubt that there were plenty of wealthy people highly leveraged in real estate. The poor got leveraged by necessity to purchase a minimal house. The wealthy through greed. The problem is that you can't have different standards for loan qualification for the rich than you do the poor. It got really nasty when you had so little invested in your house that you could default on your $500K loan on your house that is now only worth $350K as you close the loan on your new bigger house that you just purchased for $450K. The incentives got all screwed up with little money down and a falling market. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
It's a shame she (Lohan) is a whack job | ||
| M2me |
You forgot the part about congress and community organizers pushing banks to make really bad loans. The reworking of the community reinvestment act. But that was not the cause of the subprime crisis. This has been analyzed over and over again.
Did the CRA cause the mortgage market meltdown? Why were the majority of subprime originations made? Because the lenders were pushed to by the CRA? But the majority of subprime originations were not subject to CRA rules so that doesn't make any sense. Could it be because people were making boatloads of money from these bad loans and they didn't care how much damage was going to be caused? Some tried to have that changed, to introduce stricter requirements, like say 5%. The Dems in congress cried bloody murder and would have none of it. The Dems could cry all they want but they had no power to actually do anything. The Republicans controlled both houses until Jan. 2007. No reform bill made it out of committee before then and after it was too late anyway. The foreclosures had already begun. The only power the minority party has is filibuster but if a bill does not make it out of committee there is nothing to filibuster. The majority party controls committees. Republican Congress Talked About Financial Reform But Did Nothing | ||
| Blake |
Sifo already answered your attempt to excuse the big government activism that instigated the crisis. >>> The Dems could cry all they want but they had no power to actually do anything. That is either incredibly ignorant, or willfully misleading. Get off my website. | ||
| M2me |
That is either incredibly ignorant, or willfully misleading. Get off my website. You are completely ignorant of how our government actually works. I have no doubt that I could mop the floor with you in any debate. How do I know this? Simple, because whenever I start to score points your response is always, "Get off my website." Stick a fork in you, you're done. You've announced that you ain't got nowhere else to go but to get rid of me. You lost. I've got miles to go, baby! I'll beat you like a mule every single time! Although the novelty has worn out for me. It's gotten so incredibly easy to do that I've started to lose interest in it. | ||
| Boltrider |
I don't think committee control would have mattered for the Democrats back then because many did not see a problem with what was going on. From what I've read, the Dems either didn't believe there was a bubble, or that if there was one, it wasn't very serious. Here's a quote from one of their leaders: "Homes that are occupied may see an ebb and flow in the price...but you're not going to see the collapse that you see when people talk about a bubble." - Barney Frank, 2005 This is the same guy that, from 2003 onward, said over and over that Fannie and Freddie were solvent and would remain solvent. He stood in opposition to some Bush reform proposals and talked about how he wanted to "roll the dice a little bit more" with subsidized housing. How fitting that he would later watch as chairman of the HFSC as his two pets, Fannie and Freddy, came back to bite him in the ass. Barney Frank was put into a leadership role and I suspect other Democrats in the House looked at the housing situation much the same way he did. (Message edited by boltrider on March 05, 2011) | ||
| Aesquire |
M2me, Thank you, the charts in your first link show that it WAS the "yuppie scum" loans that cost the banks more. That second link shows that the R's didn't do reform as "should have been done" to a corrupt and criminal CRA system. Neither did the D's. ( who were in charge far longer than the R's ) It was the D's that defended their Fannie mae/Freddie mac cronies that stole millions of dollars from you. ( by lying about profits and pocketing unearned bonuses ) No different than a contractor charging you for a roof that he did not install, leaving you with a hole-ey roof. Then having the local cops refuse to prosecute, and blaming you for being a bad homeowner. On tv. There is video. Mops require water that your arguments may not carry. So, the CRA "per se" is claimed by one bank not to be the problem..... but instead the bad loans banks were first required, ( so then leeegally allowed ) to make covered by govt. promises to pay off if the borrower could not pay. Profitable, high interest variable rate "sub prime" loans that would, before CRA, be a no-no. Right? Loans "covered" in Congress by giving low interest special deal loans to certain congress critters ( on the banking committee ) and massive campaign bribes by FM/FM. Obviously it's all the R's fault.  ( don't like them either ) Defending the D's when they made millions in bribes is just hilarious. And a lie. | ||
| Sifo |
The whole idea of trying to separate CRA loans from "non-CRA" loans is a huge red herring. Technically the CRA only applies to FDIC insured banks. Basically your local bank where you would have a checking or savings account. These banks survive by doing loans that conform to Freddie/Fannie guidelines. This means that Freddie/Fannie guidelines are forced to meet the requirements of the CRA legislation. Most loans are written by larger mortgage companies however, not your local bank. Because these banks are not FDIC insured they technically are not doing "CRA" loans. Still the vast majority of the loans that these banks do will be conforming loans, i.e. Freddie/Fannie loans, i.e. loans that meet CRA regs. As for the non-conforming loans that these banks do, they still use almost all of the qualification rules as the conforming loans. They simply will bend the Freddie/Fannie qualification rules slightly for a specific category of borrowers needs. Allowing for secondary financing would be an example of this. What all of this means is that when the author who wrote the article claiming that CRA loans weren't the cause of the mortgage meltdown he isn't representing reality, either willfully or through his own ignorance. The simple truth is that the vast majority of the loans are conforming loans that meet all the requirements of the CRA even if they don't technically fall under CRA oversight. On top of that, non-FDIC lenders are still forced to follow anti-discrimination laws that are not necessarily unique to the CRA legislation. EDIT: Let me spell it out for anyone who missed the point of all that. Freddie/Fannie drive the qualification rules for the mortgage market and their rules follow CRA regulations therefore the entire market has been shaped by the CRA. (Message edited by SIFO on March 05, 2011) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
for everything that you 'enjoy' in the housing banking arena with toxic loan bundles... get a big spoon, they are the architect model for the Health Care exchanges. You know healthcare - only one sixth of our economy. Designed and poised to fail, from the moment they turn on the switch at 1/1/2014 - its dead with in 5-7 years, it is a classic pump and dump. Who wins ? Medical Technical companies that are making EMR/EHR.....GE, Seimens, Lawyers (of course they win, they wrote it) every enrollee will be required to have an Advance directive, End Stage Care Continuim Charter, an assigned Medical Power of attorney - and your DOCTOR is specifically excluded from providing these services. And failure to have one done, will mean that the state will assign one for you... And with the IRS running the 'administrative' side of eligibility, enrollment, and premium enforcement... where do yo think that money will go? Its a bad bill, and people are letting it simmer thinking 'the debate is over' Any large bundling of 'risk' that is resold without determination of mitigation of actuarial parameters is a TOXIC asset. Resold mortgages with no assessment of credit worthiness, due diligence, killed the housing market Exchange risk bundled based on number of enrollee that are 'supposed to pay premium' with out a consideration of health risk, and monetary ability and history to pay such premium is a TOXIC asset. It will fail. But heres your early warn notice, get in on the pump and dump before they unplug grandma. You will make bank, and can retire overseas. Because when it is done, you wont recognize America anyway. | ||
| 86129squids |
"It's a shame she (Lohan) is a whack job"...    | ||
| Blake |
>>> You are completely ignorant of how our government actually works. Not so much. Regardless, your statement, "The Dems could cry all they want but they had no power to actually do anything" remains either incredibly ignorant, or willfully misleading. I take it from your haughty indignation that it is the latter. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290574391296381 .html | ||
| Aesquire |
Sifo, ...can't have different standards for loan qualification... exactly. a million bad loans at 50k each is bad, but a million bad loans at 500k is a disaster. When the banks were forced by law to make iffy loans, the govt. backed the loans to take the risk out for the banks. Once you've got the requirement to make iffy loans, and there is NO down side, since mommy state will cover you, it only makes sense to make as many and as big as you can, to get the most profit. Private profit, public loss. I could only dream of a deal that awesome. I win, I'm rich, I lose, you're poor. Whoo hoo! Then to just slather icing on the cake, the govt. allowed the loans to be sold as bonds, then re-tooled over and over. In many cases the insurance on these CDO's was sold multiple times on the same bond. Such a sweet deal, and $billions$ were sucked up and disappeared into the Goldman Sachs etc. companies. Almost all had made large donations to the party and admin. now in power. This insanity is not entirely the D's fault. R's voted for much of this. But. D's ( to be specific, Frank & Dodd ) were bribed vast amounts from FM/FM, and defended their bribers while the FM crew ( Raines! ) pocketed huge bonuses they did not earn. People now in D.C. should be in jail. Lots of them. But, no, they are still there, still lying to you, and still raking in the bribes. Why do you think they are talking about getting rid of FM/FM? My guess? to cover tracks we don't know anything about. |
