Not sure how the Armageddon sized leap (you know, from the movie) was made from getting paid what you are worth to rebellion/revolution/destruction of the environment. Sounds like typical histrionics straight out of the Democratic playbook which is quite frankly, getting old and tired. We've seen that rerun and the Neilsons are falling on that show.
Education is not everything... but, how is it that our Gov has a 20 minute conversation with someone he thinks is David Koch and he does not know he is being duped? This guy is not too bright in my book...
If you don't know the story... some guy in New York called Walker and posed as David Koch... and he recorded the entire conversation... and it is now public on youtube above...
Let the Gov speak for himself...
Scotty can't eliminate the Wisconsin State Troopers because he won't have anyone to call on when things don't go his way... all the Wisconsin National Guard are stretched thin in the Middle East...
I pay $140 per week to insure my wife and baby boy and Iam not sure what a pension is lol. I have a simple IRA my employer matches up to 3%. My insurance is covered 100% by them but my wage reflects that.
Merit based pay would be great for education until you factor in poor urban areas where the traditional family concept has been raped and discredited by liberals and progressives. It would not be fair to teachers to rate their performance in such dire circumstances. So merit based pay ultimately wont work across the board.
Like court said this obama economy will catch up to everyone eventually. Only a matter of time.
Anybody that has any intimate dealings with another person surely knows their voice over the telephone. But, following your logic, Walker is, of course, too dumb to know.
Right...
If anybody listens to the whole youtube conversation, not once does Walker cozy up and say anything different to the "prankster" than what he is saying in public.
Since 1982, each administration in Wisconsin, whether D or R, has continued to grow state gov't pay and benefits to an unsustainable level.
We, the middle class, the group of people that unions always claim they are for, have empty pockets. We, the middle class, are broke. There is no more to give. And we, the middle class, have had enough of runaway spending and people that WORK FOR US telling us how it's going to be!
We the people have done all we could, but now when push comes to shove, it's just not good enough. Sacrifice is for thee, but not for me?
This great country was founded because we the people were tired of the ruling class and their taxes. And so are we today!
If I had to choose between being the Governor and that guy who protested in front of Fox yesterday . . . .
Well . . the Gov came out of his conversational gaff better than the Big O, Rahm, or Biden. . . .
I found it a bit refreshing that he'd actually rejected the idea of planting folks in the crowd to stir it up. Shame the AFL-CIO chose to do otherwise and was importing folks as fast as they could get them to Madison.
Reflects poorly when you ask someone what they are protesting and they don't know if they are in Madison or Milwaukee . . .I just got on the bus they told me to.
One of the bennies of having record, and rising, unemployment is a great pool of "aggrieved for a fee" help.
Regardless of where you come down on the politics . . . Wisconsin is being has been sucked dry, IN PART, by ridiculous public employee contractual provisions.
I don't know the answer.
Neither to they.
I can guarantee you . . 100% . . it will not be like it is now in 24 months . . the money is gone.
>>> how is it that our Gov has a 20 minute conversation with someone he thinks is David Koch and he does not know he is being duped?
Just guessing, but the guy apparently sounded like Koch and stated that he was Koch, and didn't say much of anything.
The governor came across as very competent and reasonable, certainly not malicious or corrupt in any way, just resolute in his position.
Recall when the journalists posing as pimp and prostitute recorded their interaction with the ACORN folks? Weren't people up in arms about some accusation about illegally recording or something like that?
"Even FDR got it... Essentially you're having taxpayer's money being used to pay to lobby for more taxpayer's money. It's absolutely ridiculous."
>>>Just guessing, but the guy apparently sounded like Koch and stated that he was Koch, and didn't say much of anything.
The Governor, unlike all the incompetent folks who were elected to do a job and have scattered to the Howard Johnsons in Illinois (Why, pray tell, would you ever go to a Howard Johnsons) didn't duck inquiries from the media and appeared in a host of lengthy interviews about the phone call last night.
He indicated he knew Koch was an active supporter but that he'd never talked to him.
I listened (most have heard nothing but the brief snippet) to the entire conversation and came away with:
typical type of BS (the "what an ass" comment) you hear in about any "guy" conversation.
The Governor represented himself and the state fairly well.
Sounds like typical histrionics straight out of the Democratic playbook which is quite frankly, getting old and tired. We've seen that rerun and the Neilsons are falling on that show.
Lol, if you've read my past posts you'll see I dont play from either the left or the right playbook.
I'm tired of the mantra, "the market", the market", "the market". It doesn't solve every problem.... that was the point of my post, and that's what I believe I said.
Back on topic: I dont see why employees shouldn't be able to organize and negotiate for better compensation. Nobody should be forced into a union though. If the employees and employer agree on compensation fine, if not either is free to find other employees or another employer, as the case may be.
In WI, the governor should stick to his campaign promises, if state/school employees dont agree with what happens, go elsewhere and work there. If the government cant fill all the positions it needs filled at the compensation it is offering it will have to raise compensation to lure people to fill those positions.
Does any one know who was the highest payed public sector worker in Madison Wi. I do I do..... wait for it..... A BUS DRIVER, and not just one 5 in the top 10 make over $130,000!! why the hell should a bus driver rack up over $70,000 in overtime? Let me answer that myself.... because if he does that for 3 years his PENSION (that he pays nothing into) will be based from that. Does anyone see anything wrong with that? I sure do because MY taxes will end up paying for it! And why should a teacher making $55,000 a year retire with a $110,000 package that they paid nothing for? And the head of there union that makes $480,000 + "expenses" thinks us homeowners should give up our tax break on our interest to pay for the teachers pension and health care for them.
Where was Obama's Organize America when Doyle passed his last budget and had over 1200 public employees fired? Or when he passed his Combined Tax Reporting law, that law was the straw that broke the camels back, and lead to Wisconsin having more public sector employees than manufacturing employees. Did the liberals forget HD, Mercury Marine,Kohle, Sub Zero... when offer 7000 tax-paying union members were sent to the un-employment line,and management was forced to take pay cuts as high as 30%. Is it ok that we have thousands of people from out of state being bused in, payed for by Obama's campaign? Here is a quote from Barack Hussain Obama himself I just love saying the liberals.... "WE WON THE ELECTION GET OVER IT", now it is time for some real change we can believe in. I also have 3 friends that work for MPS that got there degrees HERE in Wisconsin in 4 years accruing less than $45,000 in debt, that showed up for work all week. MPS is one if not the worst school board in the country that layed off more than 350 teachers last year, and not a peep from the unions. 8.5 months of work for $55,000+ plus benefits, and paying 5.8% into a pension package double your yearly wage sounds pretty cushy to me. Between my 401k,stock program, and a pension that probably wont be there when I get there im into it for over 15%. Wisconsin is broke, in debt to the tune of 3.8 billion, the most the state has ever seen. We have more people being payed from taxes than people contributing, how long should we go on like this?
And due to the democrats that run from there jobs, that they wanted so bad and begged the public to give them the lay-off process has to start. Part of MR. governor Scott Walker's plan includes NO layoffs or furloughs.
The good in all this is Voter id is getting passed, so that might slow down all the democrat voter fraud in Milwaukee. I really hope Conceal and Carry get passed while the dems are on the run.
nd, on an unrelated note, the public service workers have already conceeded the pay cuts and benefits contributions... it is the outlwaing of collective bargaining that they are opposed to in the contract
How is eliminating mandatory dues the same as outlawing collective bargaining? If they are truly unified, they'll pay their dues voluntarily. My thoughts are that it's a "loyalty check" and some folks are very worried about that.
(Message edited by boltrider on February 24, 2011)
That movie, if it honors the Ayn Rand novel, will alter the course of history. It'll do as good as any novel that goes on screen. There are way too many people bashing the novel, I suppose the movie will have the same people bashing it. What's sad is that most of the reviews I've read about the novel are by people that haven't read the book. You can tell by what they say. If you're talking to someone about the book, and they're bashing, just ask them what they thought about the violent submission of Dagny to Hank. That usually shuts them up, they're not aware of any love story since they've not read the book much less any domination/submission going on inside.
WRT Unions, I can honestly say, the ones I've been exposed to were pretty violent entities when not getting their way. I realize this is exposer to only two unions, but being from Right to Work states, it's all I have to go by.
I sure don't agree with Ayn Rand on some issues... Neither do I, I also don't agree with Erik on some of his views, but I totally agree with him on motorcycles and racing. None of us agree on everything.
I'm coming really late here but I had to make a comment on a quote, In the old days, when students wouldn't do the work, teachers failed them. Do that a couple of times, and parents get the message that work must be done and it's not the teacher's job to make sure it is.
When I was in school that was the scenario that my parents had to face with me. I learned with phonics not the whole word method. They kept telling my parents that I wouldn't do the work. I could, I just got confused easily. There for I got put into L,D. Jump ahead 20 years and now I'm being told by a teacher that my kid is A,D,D. We found out through $20,000 out of our pocket for testing, & tutoring that he is dyslexic and not A,D,D. I have found through the years with the school system that not all teachers are taught to look for the things to help their students. The schools also helping keep them down or out of the schools. The teachers that can't teach are the ones that we had the most problems with.
We even had a Magnet H/S call us before the year started that they really felt it was best to send him to our local H/S and put him in L,D. They failed and we got him into the Magnet and he's scoring higher than most students in the Wichita area.
I made a promise to my kids when they were born that they will never go through the same things that I had to go through in school. My parents were lead astray and told that this was the only path that I could take. It was wrong then, and it's wrong now.
I have no problem with paying for someones salary if they do the job. I have allot of problems with several teachers that don't teach and want to be awarded for something they didn't do.
I'm not a teacher, but I know what I wanted for my kids.
Current WI public employee contributions... Health care 6% Pension 0.04%
Proposed WI public employee contributions... Heath care 12% Pension 5.6%
the proposed STILL is less than the national average.
So, with that, we, the taxpayers that pay for almost all their current benefits, are now nazi's?
Cradle to grave means big gov't. Big gov't means less private sector investment. Less private sector investment means less jobs. Less jobs means less taxes. Less taxes means fewer entitlements and more decay of our cities. More decay of our cities means...
These self-proclaimed smart people have a basic math problem...they can't add and subtract!
Great to hear about your staunch support for your children. I knew too many who I suspect fell into the same situation as you. Students who were very keen of intellect, but who had trouble with convention. It was very frustrating for them. Some gravitated towards the trades where they excelled. I hate the conventional thinking that everyone ought to aim for college. That's idiocy. The trades are among some of the most noble and most lucrative professions.
Ft_bstrd, Your right. However, try explaining that to an over educated person who thinks that they are above you. The teacher's that I have been hearing on the radio in Wisconsin have that same attitude. It's all the same to them (Your kid won't do the work). I am not bashing the union. I am in one. Nevertheless, all of the teachers that I have had conflicts with are staunch NEA members. Even when I was in High School, it was the same. Their rhetoric does not add up. Tax the rich, they don't pay their share. Well no they won't. They will pack up and leave. I have been at a few jobs that there was blatant nepotism. Those businesses are no longer operating and I never got a raise or advanced to a higher position. I quit after a few months of trying to prove myself. That is what I am seeing in the school system now .
A couple of anecdotes relating to peoples attitudes on education.
A friend of mine who is an electrician had his "ultra liberal" (his words) brother-in-law asking for some electrical work on the side. My friend gave him an estimate to which the brother-in-law stated "There's no way that someone with your education should be able to make that kind of money". Of course at that point there wasn't enough money in the world to do that side job. He wound up paying much more to another uneducated electrician that had no incentive to be nice on the price.
Another... When I was doing computer code I wound up working with a guy who had a masters degree and had been working on radar jamming equipment for Northrop Grumman. He commented many times how odd it was that he got better pay in the private sector developing business system rather than working on classified scientific work in the defense sector. Hard lesson, but simply being educated doesn't mean you get better pay. Welcome to the real world!
In WI's case they have spent a huge amount of money in the past 10+ years supposedly to improve the education system. It didn't work and the people voted for the guy that campaigned on rolling that back. Elections are supposed to have consequences. Now we have elected officials hiding out of state to try to disenfranchise the voters of WI. There will be zero sympathy from me for the teachers that wind up losing their jobs as a result of this sort of childish BS.
As a "gifted" child that didn't learn well in a traditional class setting, I agree completely with your statement.
As the father of a child with aspergers, I can tell you that some disabilities are more obvious and detectable than others.
My comment about failing students was with regard to disengaged parents. It wouldn't matter if your child were simply not doing the work or was having educational difficulties if the parents are disengaged. Either way, the goal was to get them engaged and sometimes a child failing in school is the only way to make that happen.
Jeremy, if you felt I was coming after you, I wasn't. We are more in agreement than most. I was trying to make it clear and some how came out as a dig on you. Asperger is totally different. Hands down you have me beat on anything I could say or do. That in itself has come a long way from 20 years ago.
Oh, my feelings weren't hurt, and I didn't take it as a personal dig. I just wanted to make sure you didn't think I was sidelineing your point.
I've had the exact kind of teachers you describe that only want students who fit in a box and lack the creativity to find the strategy for the child that doesn't. It's easier to push them off on someone else than to alter their work duties.
The biggest failures come with promoting and rewarding mediocre performance. I hang that on the NEA.
If you want to be mad at some teachers, you should have seen what I used to witness last year. I was regularly transporting a wheel chair student morning and afternoon. The mom was constantly wondering why he didn't sleep at night. The teachers at school would recline him back in his chair and tell me about how he slept all day. As much as I was tempted to say something, it would probably have been bad news for me to get in the middle.
