| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
Some of you know I was considering a new hobby/career change to get into flying. This just kind of fell into my lap via a friend of mine, but not sure if it's a good deal or not. Seemed we had a few pilots here that could give some guidance. I'm sure I don't have all of the details, but this is what I know: The plane (again, this is second hand info) is a Piper Cherokee 150 "with a 160 engine". No idea on the year, but a 150 would have had a straight wing which makes it between 1961 and 1973, from what I can tell. Full IFR, $90k in overhaul in the last year or two, including engine, paint and interior. $3,000 buy in for co-ownership (I'd be the 4th or 5th owner depending on if my friend does it as well). Additional is $100/mo for maintenance and $70 per flight hour. I can also get instruction from the owner for $3,000 to get my PPL, and he can take me through commercial and instructor ratings as well if I so desired. I don't know what happens if I decide to get out, if I get back that $3,000 or not - I know it works different ways. Just curious if this is a good deal. With the monthly fees and flight hours, assuming a couple months, would run around $6300 for a PPL, which is pretty much in line with other schools I've found near here. Obviously, the co-ownership is nice as well, and the more I use it, the lower the cost is per hour - 4 hours a month would be $95/hour. BTW - for comparison's sake, there is a local flying club here with 5 aircraft (2 Pipers and 3 Cessnas, some are retractable gear so I'd need to be type rated to even use them, I think) - Buy in is $4170, monthly dues are $85 and hourly on the aircraft are $107/hr, making 4 hours in a month cost almost $129/hr, so the Piper from above is a better deal from a cost perspective. No idea how many members they have and if the ratio of members to aircraft would be less than the 4-5:1 of the above plane. (Message edited by xl1200r on February 17, 2011) | ||
| Fast1075 |
Sounds like fun...just don't forget the aviator's axiom...."thou shalt maintaineth thine airspeed lest the ground come up and smite thee".  | ||
| Slaughter |
Joint ownership for the purposes of reducing training costs can work. IF you are thinking that it MIGHT work for IFR - check radios/instruments/NAV Sounds about average for the older Chickoree though - but if you already know the partners, could work out. Make SURE you can make a graceful exit. Some partnership agreements are tough - you can't just "sell" your piece of it on Trade-A-Plane - and your partners may want to approve a new partner. Also, the break-even costs on that bird are going to be dang near $60 per hour (including fuel/oil/maintenance) so while it's about half cost of renting, it's not "cheap" If you don't yet have your private - you MIGHT consider buying a 152 and leasing-back to a local operator, selling that when you decide to go for your Instrument rating... or handging onto it. When you lease-back you can write off MOST expenses. | ||
| Xl1200r |
edited original post for hourly rates, they were higher than I was originally told. | ||
| U4euh |
I am not a pilot, but I watched my father go through the deal of getting lisenced, buying 3 different planes, and now not hardley doing any flying at all.Paying for hanger fees, maintenence, insurance, and Annuals. So that brings to mind 2 questions, 1. How serious about it are you? 2. How easy will it be for you to get out of it? Seems pretty expensive to get into something you MAY or MAYNOT enjoy. If you got into it and enjoy it, yay you have made a good decision. If you get in and really don't like it, and can get out easy, yay again another good decision. If you get into it, hate it and can't get out without a headache, well......? Just my thoughts on it though. Like I said I've watched the ole man throw away a lot of money on a plane that collects dust. | ||
| Xl1200r |
All fair questions. Learning to fly has always been at least on the back of my mind. I almost went to college to be pilot, twice. It comes up again at least every couple years about making a move on it, either for hobby or career, so it's definitely something I would enjoy. That said, this isn't set in stone. Learning to fly and being co-owner in a plane would limit me in other areas. Yes, I want to do it, but instead of doing more traveling? More motorcycle trips? Hell, instead of a fancy new car (that I can enjoy everyday)? All things to consider. To do it now I'd be adding considerable expense to my monthly bills (essentially another healthy car payment) plus that initial investment and the training time that would be needed at the start, and optional after that depending on how far I wanted to take it. | ||
| Whistler |
Owner/instructor a CFI? Does he routinely fly the plane IFR? Is scheduled or unscheduled maintenance additional to you? Might be advisable to have a respected A&P/A&I look the plane over before joining up. Slaughter's lease back idea is a good one. If you can learn and earn and get help with taxes in your own plane you'll have more than just a license and some ratings afterwards. Maybe partner up with your buddy? I learned to fly in rented Cherokees but after doing the math and needing better flexibility, we bought a Mooney to get the instrument ticket and use for travel and sales. A privately owned plane can be a heck of a business tool. Good luck and best wishes with this terrific adventure you've started. | ||
| Sifo |
It's a very expensive hobby. I had a good friend that had a 152 for years. It was surprising how often a cylinder lost compression and had to be rebuilt. At least he had a deal with a local mechanic to trade his hours for flight time. That can be a nice way to go too. I came close to buying a Cherokee back in the 80's. It had just been completely refurbished including a brand new engine. The owner died just after it was finished and his wife just wanted out of it. Looking back I'm glad I didn't go for it. I'm much better off financially for not doing it. Flying can be a lot of fun, but it is a very expensive hobby. Realistically how much will you be able to use it? A co-ownership deal usually winds up with a calendar of who can use the plane on what day. If you are mostly limited to weekends that is going to be a couple of days per month that you can fly, unless you have other commitments that day. Basically, there's no free ride. The more you want to play the more you WILL pay. You will have to put a value on your hard earned cash. I can't help with that. Did I mention it's a very expensive hobby? | ||
| Prowler |
I got my pilot's License back in the '80's when it wasn't all too expensive. I think I spent around $4K for my PPL, part time, over a year or so span. After another couple years of flying around in circles (day and night) trying to stay "current", I realized it wasn't worth my time for the amount of use I was actually getting. Building your own plane (if you've got the skills) with some help from the EAA is the only way to go (if you're on a budget). The best part about getting a pilot's license is that it never expires so down the road there's always that chance to get back into it. | ||
| Kenm123t |
As a boat bike and rv owner I think the typical Cessna or piper are cheaper $ 60 per hour wont cover the fuel cost of an off shore out board much less a diesel sport fish | ||
| Xl1200r |
Ken, the $60/hr isn't the hard part... the repairs and maintenance are a huge chunk of change, and your annual inspection, from what I understand, is thousands of dollars if you don't need anything - more if you do.. Pwoler, if I got really serious about it and wanted my own all to myself, I'd go the homebuilt experiemental (or LSA) route. Only downside is limited to 2 seats. | ||
| Spdrxb |
Some good info for you here. I work in aviation,and can tell you like others it is not cheap. I would suggest you look into Light sport category. The Taylorcraft for example is one of the most affordable. The license is also half the cost,keep in mind all this is not suggested for a cheap budget. Unless you can work on your own plane. I have both an A&P and IA and I even shy away from the idea. If flying is a career change be prepared to spend a lot of money by the time you get a commercial rating.(not exact on the figures) be prepared to have spent upwards of 20-30K. After than it will take a long time just to land a well paying job. I work for a corporate aviation company that fly schedules similar to a commuter airline and I think they need a min of 500-800 hours and commercial rating to get hired.That is a big chunk of money to get to that point. Not trying to kill your dream but its not a whim decision I would make unless your totally commited. If you have more direct question feel free to ask. did a little research fixed the hour requirement after talking to pilot coworker. (Message edited by spdrxb on February 18, 2011) | ||
| Xl1200r |
Just for the record, I have no interest in owning my own certified aircraft unless my paycheck starts to break the 6-digit mark several times over. I'm not planning on it. If I went experimental or LSA, I'd probably either consider the new PiperSport (which is just a licensed homebuilt from the Czech republic), or a KitFox if I wanted to go home built. I've also given consideration to gliders or motorgliders - pretty much less to do in all aspects on my limited. Hell, maybe I'll just get a hang glider. | ||
| Slaughter |
Seriously, talk to your local FBO - you will find that FEW aircraft on the ramp are owned BY the FBO - most are leased-back. Old expression about General Aviation (as well as other passions) - want to know how to make a small fortune in General Aviation? Simple, start with a large one! Here's something else - airlines are having a hard time getting pilots - the military has scaled back (their traditional talent pool) - you can expect to have about $40K invested in flight experience by the time you have your first type-rating. | ||
| Chrisrogers3 |
In my opinion (as a student pilot myself).... Skip the buy in aspect. It seems quite steep for starters and unless you fly daily dont expect to get your private in a couple months. In my experience the PPL is the most tedious.... You will more than likely rack up 50-60 hours before a check ride. You really dont have anything to gain by going the buy in route other than to say you're part owner. Besides, it would be quite hard to get a multi rating and commercial multi on the piper  | ||
| Xl1200r |
Found an interesting option with sail planes... local club, $500 buy in, avg $25 per tow (depending on heigth), $20/mo, FREE instruction. Wouldn't be a career move but at least I'd be in the air... I've got time to think so no rush. | ||
| Slaughter |
First solo - February 1968 - age 14:  | ||
| Spdrxb |
Yes hang-gliding would be fun, looked into that myself some time back problem is I have too many expensive hobbies for my budget. I'm not ready to give up my present hobbies to pursue this. Here is where I looked into it \link {http://www.flymorningside.com/} Goodluck... (Message edited by spdrxb on February 19, 2011) (Message edited by spdrxb on February 19, 2011) | ||
| Xl1200r |
Slaughter, just saw your photo (blocked here at work)... I'm thinking sailplanes are the way to go right now. Only downside is the Blanik L-13, the most numerous glider in the world and a popular trainer in the States, has been grounded worldwide due to an fatal accident where a wing came off in flight in the Czech Rep. No solution since the accident in June 2010, though one is expected early this year. The club I mentioned above has two of these, but also has 3 other 2-seat gliders. |
