| Author | Message | ||
     Fast1075 |
Just saw an article that says Hezbolla has gained control of the Lebanese government. Discuss??? | ||
| Swampy |
So, we have a bunch of retarded communists that have gained control of the United States Government...I will probly die now from making that comment. | ||
| Buellkowski |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Najib_Mikati http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_8_Alliance | ||
| Blake |
Lebanon used to be a thriving Christian/Secular nation. The islamists have brought it to ruin. Same old story everywhere they are allowed to gain a foothold. Some cannot imagine that the same may happen here. It is happening already. | ||
| Swampy |
I was going to say that it has been told that Lebanon was at one time a very cosmopolitan advanced city, it is now a bombed out mess. The wildmen of the middle east have taken over, and they leave destruction in their wake. | ||
| Greg_e |
Blake, Not that I don't agree with you, but we also need to remember our history... The Christians did the same things to many areas in the past. As the Terminator said... It is in our nature to destroy ourselves. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0103064/quotes?qt04167 56 And religion seems to lead the way to that destruction, followed by greed/absolute power, followed somewhere by freedom from oppression. | ||
| Buellkowski |
I know I'll be condemned here as an "apologist", but please note that Mikati (a rich Lebanese businessman) is not a member of Hezbollah and that Hezbollah is but one member of the coalition that nominated him, a coalition that also contains secular and Christian parties. Try not to let the blogosphere and talk radio tell you what to think. | ||
| Spiderman |
never mind. It is just not worth it anymore... Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference. (Message edited by spiderman on January 25, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> The Christians did the same things to many areas in the past. The islamists have been doing it since they were organized. I just don't get why some feel compelled to try to raise a moral equivalence between the islamists (the 10% of muslims supporting violent jihad) and Christianity today. I see no such equivalence. | ||
| Blake |
Tony, Not all muslims are islamists in the same way that not all Germans were nazis. Surely you are not intending to defend the islamists. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Man some people have had some bad run ins with Christians. I can relate but I don't get the blind hostility. Look at media discussion on the ft. Hood shooter vs. the tuscon shooting for example. If that doesn't make you sad and angry at where we are today then nothing will. | ||
| Blake |
Some don't seem to be able to cope with a very real threat of evil in the world today; reality is too scary for some, understandable I suppose. They tend to want to imagine their world more comfortable and less threatening for themselves. They do this by trying to diminish the threat of evil today. They do that through false moral equivalence to that which was long ago and not so threatening and which in fact is virtually non-existent today. Right now, today, all over the world, a holocaust is being perpetrated, yet it goes largely unreported. Why? The victims are Christians and Jews. The perpetrators are islamists. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
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| Blake |
Greg, >>> And religion seems to lead the way to that destruction, followed by greed/absolute power, followed somewhere by freedom from oppression. You are indicting "religion" in general. Care to support your assertion? Are you including naziism and communism in your definition of religion? If not, your theory is egregiously lacking in factual support. Communism under Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot killed upwards of 100,000,000 through both militancy, tyranny, and genocide. Naziism (national socialism) under Hitler and the ensuing war to defeat it killed upwards of 50,000,000. The Imperial Japanese killed over 10,000,000 in China alone. The idea that "religion" is responsible for anything close to the majority of human destruction/suffering in the world is easily refuted by an objective review of the facts. The ludicrously false notion has unfortunately been embraced by many succumbing to the mantra of secularist popular culture today. We need to wise up. Truth is out there if we seek it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Having seen 4 ethnic clensings, and ramping up to a 5th if Ossetia keeps getting hot, I can indeed tell you that a dead muslim corps stinks just as much as dead christian corps. and when you pile them high like cord wood, and push them around with bulldozers it really doesnt matter who killed who; because theyre dead. Be whatever religion you want, I just really hope there isnt reincarnation. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Many "evil" things have been done throughout history in the name of religion. But you know what, it no more or less than has been done in the name of nationalism, ethnicity, or politics. Men have always justified their evil through whatever means are most readily believed/accepted by the masses. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Keep an eye on Egypt, too. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Many "evil" things have been done throughout history in the name of religion. But you know what, it no more or less than has been done in the name of nationalism, ethnicity, or politics. Actually it is a lot less. | ||
| Court |
Man I am soooo out of touch. I didn't even know the lesbians HAD a government. Cool | ||
| Moxnix |
Discuss? Sure, I will. In 629 AD, Mohammed sat down to a lamb dinner, took a bite, spat it out, but it was too late. He'd been poisoned. For the last 1355 years the Sunni and the Shia have been battling for the control of Islam. Iran (Persia/Shia) once controlled most of the Middle East. They want it back. Iran gives about $1 billion per year to Hezbollah. More to Syria. What does Iran get for it's money? Hezbollah operates Shia terrorist camps in Iraq, Lebanon and Syria. So, it's about oil, certainly, as Iran wants control of all the oil in Middle East. Iran funds Shia terrorists operating in southern Iraq, where 6 of Iraq's 8 super oil fields lie. Iran funds Shia terrorists in Yemen, which has a long border with Saudi Arabia. 50 Sunni schools closed along the border and over 240 towns have been abandoned in southern Saudi lands because of terrorists attacks. Iran wants Saudi oil fields as a spoil of war. Back in the 1980s, Sunni Saudi Arabia gave Saddam Hussein over $47 billion to fight a war against Iran which killed over 500,000 Iranian Shia. Revenge plays a part of everything in the Middle East. Over 2 million Shia work in the Sunni Saudi oil fields. This is a religious war in the making with an enemy within the gates. Since Obama will be like Carter during the 1979 Iran crisis, oil will rise in price. Our Pentagon has tripled its budget for Yemen, sent ships and 20K troops last year. One oil "chokepoint" is the Gate of Tears, Bab El Mandeb between Yemen and Africa. If Iran backed rebels take Yemen . . . . And, Iran can block the other chokepoint at the Straight of Hormuz. $220 a barrel oil overnight. How does it all tie to Lebanon? The Persians invented chess and trigonometry, they walked with Aristotle and Plato, and held the Romans at bay. Hezbollah are pieces in play on the Iran chess board. Further deponent sayeth not. | ||
| Trojan |
Nice headline, but not exactly the whole story. Hezbolla is a political party as well as a para military organisation, so will have elected representatives in Lebanon regardless of any connotation we put to the name so long as people want to vote for them. There isn't always a direct connection between the polictical and para military wings of these organisations, and if they are fairly elected by their population who are we to say they can't elect whoever they like? You may as well say that the IRA are running Northern Ireland just because a few Sinn Fein MP's got elected to the legislature. Israel has been run for many years by parties that were once considered to be terrorist gangs back in the late 40's. The 'West' has caused more problems than I care to rememebr by meddling with other countries politics, so maybe it is about time we just let them get on with running their own countries instead of trying to impose what we think is a good idea. We haven't got a good record for installing/promoting rulers have we.....Saddam Hussein, Robert Mugabe, Idi Amin etc etc etc | ||
| Two_seasons |
It seems to me that everywhere you turn these days, whether in our monopoly taxpayer funded public schools, or this board, people have a hard time calling evil evil anymore. You can't have it both ways. Evil isn't good sometimes and good isn't evil sometimes. One fights for the God-given rights we have, and wants to share that with other peoples, the other fights/kills over cartoons and other such nonsense. Good or evil, seems pretty simple to me. | ||
| Trojan |
Good or evil, seems pretty simple to me. If only it were that simple. Good and evil mean different things to different people and in different places. It is no accident that 'the west' (USA/UK mostly but NATO members generally) is viewed as positively evil in some areas after the mess we have made of foreign policy over the last 60 years unfortunately. One fights for the God-given rights Again it very much depends on which god you believe in I suppose. I am not a bleeding heart liberal by any stretch of the imagination, but I am am also against interfering in other countries business unless it has a direct effect on our own. If we had left a lot of the middle east (and elsewhere) alone over the last 60 years we certainly wouldn't be facing the degree of hostility and threat from these countries that we face now. Hezbolla in itself is not evil, any more than George Bush or Tony Blair were evil as individuals. Maybe what they stand for isn't the same as us and we may consider some of their ideas pretty extreme, but it is after all their country and their vote, and at least they have a vote  I think I'd be more worried by Iran and North Korea (counties that don't get to vote and have nuclear capability!) than Lebanon right now | ||
| Moxnix |
Of course it's not the whole story. The whole story will be written somewhere down the line and my 5 or six points will either be supported or denied. Certainly we are viewing how the world operates in the "jihad generation" throughout the Ummah. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Iran is democratic..... or so they say. Too bad its the mullahs (sp?) that run the place. Sorta like Pakistan is democratic, but the military really runs the place. Or even Russia, as long as Putin agrees. Edit: Hell, even the US as long as you agree with the leaders of the two parties. A third position has about the same chance of success as a snowman in hell. (Message edited by sayitaintso on January 27, 2011) (Message edited by sayitaintso on January 27, 2011) | ||
| Moxnix |
Anyway, Beirut really was a cosmopolitan city, "The Paris of the Mediterranean," before the troubles came. I used to buy gold there. A decade later it was a very dangerous place. Still is. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Is running over your daughter(s) with a car because you believe they are "too Westernized" good or evil? Where in the world where Islam is in power, anywhere, would you want to live? And could you do so in safety or would it only be safe if you convert to their religion? Good or evil? What about Islam in America, say via the New Black Panther Party? Good or evil? All Muslims are not terrorists, BUT, almost without exception, all terrorists are Muslims. Islam teachings---good or evil? Ever read the Quran? What does it say about women? What does it say about slaying those who oppose Islam? Good or evil? Ever read the Bible? What does it say about women? What does it say about those who oppose Christianity? Good or evil? Can you give us the top ten things that Islam has done over the last two millenia to make this earth a better place to live? Bottom line is that Christianity isn't a religion, it's living a life that honors the Triune God. Jesus never avocated violence. Or taught others to slay those that oppose your faith. This just in...do you need any more convincing? http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1350945/Horrific-video-emerges-Taliban-fighters-stoning-couple-death-adultery.html Steve (Message edited by two_seasons on January 27, 2011) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
meh, criminals, murderers, radicals in politics? have you seen Washington DC ? | ||
| Blake |
>>> Good and evil mean different things to different people and in different places. >>> Hezbolla in itself is not evil, any more than George Bush or Tony Blair were evil as individuals. Maybe what they stand for isn't the same as us and we may consider some of their ideas pretty extreme, but it is after all their country and their vote, and at least they have a vote. So did the good people of nazi Germany who also held such extreme views. Most Germans were good folks. The nazi party and what it stood for was evil. Do not most folks agree that genocide, murder, rape, theft, child abuse, slavery, adultery, etcetera are wrong/bad/evil? Moral relativism is difficult to defend. If it were the case, then there would no basis for decrying any act of man. Should we not judge according to behavior, actions, and statements? In that case Hezbolah ranks right down there with the nazi party of Germany. Not evil? I cannot disagree more strongly. By their words and actions, every single islamist (jihadi totalitarianist) organization I've seen is the enemy of freedom and human rights, thus evil. Please don't fall down the slippery slope of moral relativism; it is a dreadful trap with horrendous consequences. All that evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. >>> It is no accident that 'the west' (USA/UK mostly but NATO members generally) is viewed as positively evil in some areas after the mess we have made of foreign policy over the last 60 years unfortunately. Can you expand on that please? Are you talking about other than islamists, marxist communists, and tyranical dictatorships? What freedom loving people hold such a view of the West, or America or Britain? I've traveled somewhat extensively and have not encountered the type of attitude that you describe. From Yemen, to Egypt, to Pakistan, to S. Korea, to Japan, to Eastern Europe, I've found the exact opposite. I once spent a week on business in Seoul South Korea. I was walking to the local convenience market one day when a well appointed stranger I was passing on the street, stopped me and asked "are you American?" I answered "yes sir, I am." He beamed and clasped my hand in both of his and asked that I tell everyone back home how thankful he and many Koreans are for America and what we did there. I asked, what he was talking about. He explained that he was very grateful for our help in opposing the communist North and the communist Chinese. He said that he had family in the North, and that their plight was terrible, a struggle just to live. He then looked me in the eyes very solemnly and said one word, "evil." It blew me away. It also made me very proud to be an American. Matt, don't buy the anti-Western propaganda of our enemies. It simply isn't truth. Similarly I was walking with a friend through Abu Dabi and a man came running up to us asking if we were American. He was smiling. We said yes. Turned out that he was Egyptian and was very thankful for America's efforts towards freedom and prosperity in his homeland. He did want very much to emigrate to America with his family. What a joyful experience. I have a friend here in Texas who is an escaped Egyptian Christian. Please ask him to describe, compare/contrast his views of America versus islamist states in the world. Truth. The folks in Brazil loved Americans when I was there three decades ago. The Pakistanis I worked with in the Persian Gulf had very positive views of America, and were eager to befriend me and my fellow American engineering trainee from Texas. Digression: >>> Israel has been run for many years by parties that were once considered to be terrorist gangs back in the late 40's. Can you elaborate on that? The islamists call Israel a terrorist state today, but rational folks know better. "Palestine" was never a state before Israel. It is an issue contrived by islamists to foster hatred and murderous rage among their supporters. It is indeed, pure evil. | ||
| Blake |
I do accept that violent militant even terrorist organizations can in time renounce violence and turn to politics and diplomacy. Unfortunately, in the case of islamism that only happens once they've achieved conquest; history shows it, their own statements allude to it, their koran mandates it. |
