| Author | Message | ||
     Jules |
For the past couple of years we've been planning a trip to the States in 2012 as it coincides with a number of my friend's 50th Birthdays. Yesterday I took a look at the visa requirement, I initially looked at the Visa Waiver Program but it seems I am ineligable. I then looked at the information requirement for the B2 Visa and it seems I will be unable to meet the requirement as it needs me to list all of the arrests/court actions i have been involved in. Now don't get me wrong, I realise that sounds perfectly logical but unfortunately the UK (still) doesn't have a national database that accurately reflects an individuals interaction with the various regional Police agencies. I've been arrested a few times (more than 5 less than 20) but never convicted of anything, the arrests have been for some fairly obscure stuff, all of which have resulted in the Police agreeing they were in the wrong and that no offence had been committed, aside from 2 small "adult cautions" (one for a firearms offence and one for "false instrument"). Unfortunately although I can comply with the requirement to get a form from the ACRO stating I have no criminal convictions I cannot then get all of the court papers together to show what the final resolution of the individual cases was (all dismissed) so I cannot actually apply for a Visa and be completely honest. I don't want to lie on the Visa application as I've actually been to the US on one occassion and one of my works colleagues was turned away at Immigration (his fault - he made a stupid joke to the Immigration Officer so they sent him to Canada (he was Canadian)). I guess I need to revise my travel plans as I am no longer able to travel to the USA. I know there's likely to be some thoughts along the line of "serves you right" but I genuinely don't have any criminal convictions and all of the court action has either been for traffic offences or the Police misinterpreting new legislation - all of which have been found in my favour (mainly because I didn't do anything wrong). It's such a shame as I love the USA and we were all looking forward to riding across California/Arizona/Nevada as I have some very fond memories of working there a few years back. Plan B is Vietnam, personally i'd rather have invested in the US economy but apparently you don't want me  LOL | ||
| Puzzled |
...and on the flip side Canada doesn't want me! Your not alone, stuff happens in life. It makes us who we are. In your case it sucks as it limits your travel plans. My only suggestion would be to have a local agency work on this for you. I'm not certain if you have ambassadors or if there are private agencies that handle this stuff. Don't give up just yet. | ||
| Trojan |
If you have been arrested and not charged, or have been charged but found Not Guilty then they don't qualify as 'convictions' and don't have to be declared to ANYBODY (unless you are applying for work with children of course, in which case you have to declare everything). As there is no central database of adult cautions, nor of non-conviction arrests in the UK then you can pretty safely declare no convictions because it would be virtually impossible to check anyway. | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I agree with Trojan. Just go for it. | ||
| Jules |
Unfortunately there's no option to do that once you answer yes to the "have you ever been arrested" question. If you declare the arrests and then state "no convictions" you need to supply the court papers to prove that, as I've moved around a lot in the last 15 years (contracting) I have been to a few different courts and genuinely can't remember them all (I know that sounds really bad). It's not as if I am a proper criminal - in theory it'd be simpler if I were as I'd be able to list the convictions. Instead I don't have any so I have to prove that I don't have convictions for the arrests which seems silly as if I wasn't convicted then the arrests shouldn't count. I did do an online CRB check (Criminal Record Check) through the disclosurescotland site (we use that at work to vet employees) and it came back 100% clear for England, Wales and Scotland, but I would still need to list all of my court appearances and provide records of the fact that they resulted in acquitals, which they did. Reading this back I sound like I ought to be on America's most wanted, but they really are trivial things, mainly as a result of the police misinterpreting changes to UK law. I can understand how it happens, our laws do change with alarming frequency and the poor Police are left to "catch up" but it's put me in a really awkward position. I guess I'll have to think on it, maybe book an appointment at the US embassy and speak to someone there to see what they think. Thanks for the feedback guys | ||
| Trojan |
Unfortunately there's no option to do that once you answer yes to the "have you ever been arrested" question. Get a new form and answer 'No' ? Last time I went to the US they asked me (with a perfectly straight face) at customs if I had ever been a terrorist or member of a terrorist organisation (seriously). I was tempted to joke and say that I used to be a member of the Popular Peoples Front of Judea, but I don't think he would have seen teh funny side, so I said no  Do they think that someone will actually reply 'Well now you come to mention it, I am second in command at Al Queda but didn't think you'd ask? Damn that foiled my devious plan ' I wonder if the UK customs ask the same silly questions to non nationals when they come into England? Probably | ||
| Hootowl |
It's so they can get you for lying to a federal official if you beat the rap on everything else. | ||
| Bigevildoer |
Here's a simple question that will decide on if you need a visa or not... How long are you staying? Correct me if I'm wrong, but being a person from the EU and all, you can stay for about 2-3 months without a visa if you have proof of a return flight. If you're coming to visit for a couple of weeks or a month, just show up with your passport. Works for me when I go to the US or Europe (I'm from Canada) on vacation. | ||
| Stimbrell |
A friend of mine over here in the UK, got turned back when he landed in the US, as a teenager he was late paying a fine, it's the late payment they said was the problem, for a minor offence on his bike, the thing is he comes back totally clean on the enhanced criminal record check in the UK so there must be information kept by UK government above the CRB level and also that information has been passed to the US government (my money is on Tony Blair for this) I am guilty of being late paying motoring fines as my mom used to use the money I sent her to pay the fines on bills and pay the fine later. As a result I would have to travel to the embassy in London before I could travel to the US. I cancelled my plans to holiday in the US because of this. | ||
| Jules |
Correct me if I'm wrong, but being a person from the EU and all, you can stay for about 2-3 months without a visa if you have proof of a return flight. OK I'll correct you You can get a "waiver" if you can (honestly) answer the question "have you ever been arrested?" in the negative. If you answer in the positive you need a B2 Visa there must be information kept by UK government above the CRB level and also that information has been passed to the US government I think you're probably correct I cancelled my plans to holiday in the US because of this. I think i am headed that way too, i don't want to fork out all of the money on the holiday and then get turned back because I forgot some minor infringement from 15 years ago! | ||
| Jules |
I've just reread some of the pages and came across this: If the ACPO states "No Trace" or "No Live Trace" or does not list in full your arrests/convictions/cautions, you will also be required to furnish copies of the court record(s) covering all charges of which you have been convicted , or which are presently pending against you, if relevant. That's actually better than I thought as if it comes back with No Trace I don't actually have any convictions so i'd be fine I wonder if it'll be that simple... | ||
| Crowley |
I've been to the USA and can't remember any hassle, despite having been arrested more than once in the UK (with no convictions) Sounds a bit like Alices Restaurant to me  | ||
| Ottobotz |
-That sucks Jules. Just fly into Mexico and come up into the states that way. Tousands of people do it everyday...LOL! -Hell you can even purchase a whole new idenity. | ||
| Ratgin |
In these times (last i checked Canada, US and UK) are all involved in a War. The US is not playing games when it comes to misleading authorities on entry docs.Do the paperwork properly and save yourself a huge hassle. | ||
| Jules |
I appreciate what you're saying, I served in Gulf War I and take national security very seriously (as do most people), the jokes about hopping over the border aren't meant to be taken seriously they're just to help me keep my chin up (which i do appreciate). Crowley - when was the last time you travelled there? I worked out in Az for a few months about 7 or 8 years ago and there were no issues then but things have changed. I have no issue at all with the extra hassle, it's worth it for the feeling of security it gives most people, the problem is more with the fact that it's almost impossible to comply with the regulations as written as they give no consideration to the peculiarities of the structure of UK law enforcement. I'm sure it'll all work out in the end | ||
| Froggy |
Jules, would you mind if I move this to the quickboard? This isn't motorcycle related, plus you will get better exposure with more people that may be able to help. | ||
| Jules |
Of course - sorry Froggy, I should've thought about that | ||
| Froggy |
Moved | ||
| Crowley |
2009 - and they stole my Biro | ||
| Britchri10 |
Were I you, I would look for the definition of "arrested". Being detained by the police is NOT the same as being arrested, even if you are charged with a crime subsequent to your detention. Were you ever 'cautioned" by the UK police? If not, I doubt that you were actually "arrested". Chris C | ||
| Jules |
Oh it's definately cautioned, arrested, detained, searched, interviewed, charged and ultimately released. Never convicted though | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Try contacting the embassy. I'm sure they'd be happy to help you figure out how to get here and spend money. | ||
| Skinstains |
Why don't you just come over by way of Mexico ? We don't give a flying f*ck who wanders in that way. Shucks, you could probably get some sort of assistance from the govt. to fund your stay. May as well get some food stamps too so you can spend all the assistance $ on fun stuff. | ||
| Court |
>>> I was tempted to joke Don't. I saw what happens. Ugly. >>>Why don't you just come over by way of Mexico ? My thoughts precisely. And . . don't worry about our $4,000,000 per mile fence. We intentionally left the barb wire off it and made it easy to get over without injury so we'd limit our liability. They had two gals (actresses I believe) try to see if they could get over it last week . . the longest took 18 seconds. Easy, huh? While you are here . . have a baby, get an ID and plan on getting any surgery you've been putting off. WELCOME . . to the world's most charitable nation. | ||
| Hootowl |
We've even put in safety lines across the rivers so you won't drown on the way over. I believe the plan is to install foot bridges, water stations, and garbage cans. Not sure who is going to collect the trash, since they won't let anyone in there for ecological reasons...except the illegals of course. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Anti-Mexican trolling aside... Relevant excerpts from the Immigration & Nationality Act: (a) Classes of Aliens Ineligible for Visas or Admission. -Except as otherwise provided in this Act, aliens who are inadmissible under the following paragraphs are ineligible to receive visas and ineligible to be admitted to the United States: ....... (2) Criminal and related grounds.- (A) Conviction of certain crimes.- (i) In general. -Except as provided in clause (ii), any alien convicted of, or who admits having committed, or who admits committing acts which constitute the essential elements of- (I) a crime involving moral turpitude (other than a purely political offense or an attempt or conspiracy to commit such a crime), or (II) a violation of (or a conspiracy or attempt to violate) any law or regulation of a State, the United States, or a foreign country relating to a controlled substance (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), is inadmissible. (ii) Exception. -Clause (i)(I) shall not apply to an alien who committed only one crime if- (I) the crime was committed when the alien was under 18 years of age, and the crime was committed (and the alien released from any confinement to a prison or correctional institution imposed for the crime) more than 5 years before the date of application for a visa or other documentation and the date of application for admission to the United States, or (II) the maximum penalty possible for the crime of which the alien was convicted (or which the alien admits having committed or of which the acts that the alien admits having committed constituted the essential elements) did not exceed imprisonment for one year and, if the alien was convicted of such crime, the alien was not sentenced to a term of imprisonment in excess of 6 months (regardless of the extent to which the sentence was ultimately executed). (B) Multiple criminal convictions. -Any alien convicted of 2 or more offenses (other than purely political offenses), regardless of whether the conviction was in a single trial or whether the offenses arose from a single scheme of misconduct and regardless of whether the offenses involved moral turpitude, for which the aggregate sentences to confinement were 5 years or more is inadmissible. (C) CONTROLLED SUBSTANCE TRAFFICKERS - Any alien who the consular officer or the Attorney General knows or has reason to believe-- (i) is or has been an illicit trafficker in any controlled substance or in any listed chemical (as defined in section 102 of the Controlled Substances Act (21 U.S.C. 802)), or is or has been a knowing aider, abettor, assister, conspirator, or colluder with others in the illicit trafficking in any such controlled or listed substance or chemical, or endeavored to do so; or (ii) is the spouse, son, or daughter of an alien inadmissible under clause (i), has, within the previous 5 years, obtained any financial or other benefit from the illicit activity of that alien, and knew or reasonably should have known that the financial or other benefit was the product of such illicit activity, is inadmissible. (D) Prostitution and commercialized vice. -Any alien who- (i) is coming to the United States solely, principally, or incidentally to engage in prostitution, or has engaged in prostitution within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, admission, or adjustment of status, (ii) directly or indirectly procures or attempts to procure, or (within 10 years of the date of application for a visa, admission, or adjustment of status) procured or attempted to procure or to import, prostitutes or persons for the purpose of prostitution, or receives or (within such 10- year period) received, in whole or in part, the proceeds of prostitution, or (iii) is coming to the United States to engage in any other unlawful commercialized vice, whether or not related to prostitution, is inadmissible. (Message edited by buellkowski on January 24, 2011) | ||
| Hootowl |
"Anti-Mexican trolling aside..." Anti illegal immigration trolling actually. I don't care what country they're from. | ||
| Jules |
Thanks all, and thanks Buellkowski for the info. I feel better now, think I'll get the ACRO letter and make an appt at the embassy |
