| Author | Message | ||
     Ourdee |
2Kings 2:19 ¶ And the men of the city said unto Elisha, Behold, I pray thee, the situation of this city [is] pleasant, as my lord seeth: but the water [is] naught, and the ground barren. 2Kings 2:20 And he said, Bring me a new cruse, and put salt therein. And they brought [it] to him. 2Kings 2:21 And he went forth unto the spring of the waters, and cast the salt in there, and said, Thus saith the LORD, I have healed these waters; there shall not be from thence any more death or barren [land]. 2Kings 2:22 So the waters were healed unto this day, according to the saying of Elisha which he spake. 2Kings 2:23 ¶ And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 2Kings 2:24 And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them. 2Kings 2:25 And he went from thence to mount Carmel, and from thence he returned to Samaria. As I see this scripture, God did not command it, Elisha cursed the 42 mockers. | ||
| Blake |
Apparently the translation of "little children" is questionable as the same Hebrew term is used to describe young men anywhere from 12 and up elsewhere in the Bible. | ||
| Ourdee |
Exd 30:12 When thou takest the sum of the children of Israel after their number, then shall they give every man a ransom for his soul unto the LORD, when thou numberest them; that there be no plague among them, when [thou] numberest them. Exd 30:13 This they shall give, every one that passeth among them that are numbered, half a shekel after the shekel of the sanctuary: (a shekel [is] twenty gerahs  an half shekel [shall be] the offering of the LORD. Exd 30:14 Every one that passeth among them that are numbered, from twenty years old and above, shall give an offering unto the LORD. Exd 30:15 The rich shall not give more, and the poor shall not give less than half a shekel, when [they] give an offering unto the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls. Exd 30:16 And thou shalt take the atonement money of the children of Israel, and shalt appoint it for the service of the tabernacle of the congregation; that it may be a memorial unto the children of Israel before the LORD, to make an atonement for your souls. This would lead me to say a child was up to 20 years old. | ||
| Revz |
"little or small" As an example see where this Hebrew word is also used... cf., 1 Sam 17:14, 33 Mandatory military service for 20+, but Same term (Hebrew modifier) used to describe David as the youngest of his clan David had not attained that age so "little" could mean not yet 20. Same for Solomon I Kgs 3 : 7 and Jeremiah Jer 1:6, 7 2 Kings 2:23, in the Septuagint. (Greek Old Testament) transliterates (sorry my Greek and Hebrew fonts don't work here) roughly as kai paidaria mikra or wooden translation 'and boys small', or smoothed for us, 'and small boys' Hebrew word for 'small' (from Strongs Lexicon) is as follows: 6994 [qaton /kaw·tone/] v. A primitive root [rather denominative from 6996]; TWOT 2009; GK 7781; Four occurrences; AV translates as “was a small thing” twice, “make small” once, and “am not worthy” once. 1 to be small, be insignificant. 1a (Qal) to be insignificant. 1b (Hiphil) to make small, reduce significantly. Word translated as boys (from Strongs) 5288 [na`ar /nah·ar/] n m. From 5287; TWOT 1389a; GK 5853; 238 occurrences; AV translates as “young man” 76 times, “servant” 54 times, “child” 44 times, “lad” 33 times, “young” 15 times, “children” seven times, “youth” six times, “babe” once, “boys” once, and “young” once. 1 a boy, lad, servant, youth, retainer. 1a boy, lad, youth. 1b servant, retainer. See also similar curse by Elijah Leviticus 26:21-22 then 2 Chronicles 36:16 Now all that said...it is the wrong question or statement. These 'people' small or big, young or younger had persisted in disobedience and apostasy from God's Law. They were given the Law and Gospel just as we are, and they chose not to obey the Law nor to recognize a prophet of God. Matthew 10:32-33 (English Standard Version) "32 So everyone who acknowledges me before men, I also will acknowledge before my Father who is in heaven, 33 whoever denies me before men, I also will deny before my Father who is in heaven." Ex 20:5-6. English Standard Version "5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God,visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me, 6 but showing steadfast love to thousands of those who love me and keep my commandments." A New Covenant Christ gave to us which also reflects Law and Gospel. "Whoever believes and is baptizes will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned." Mk 16:16 John 14:6 (ESV) "6 Jesus said to him, “I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." and Hebrews 8::6-13 "But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises. 7 For if there had been nothing wrong with that first covenant, no place would have been sought for another. 8 But God found fault with the people and said[b]: “The days are coming, declares the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the people of Israel and with the people of Judah. 9 It will not be like the covenant I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to lead them out of Egypt, because they did not remain faithful to my covenant, and I turned away from them, declares the Lord. 10 This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel after that time, declares the Lord. I will put my laws in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people. 11 No longer will they teach their neighbor, or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’ because they will all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. 12 For I will forgive their wickedness and will remember their sins no more.”[c] 13 By calling this covenant “new,” he has made the first one obsolete; and what is obsolete and outdated will soon disappear. " Before you get started with a bad first covenant, God found fault with the people not the covenant. The Old Covenant could not be kept by mankind for God, the New Covenant is kept by the man Christ for mankind. This is not to say that we should abandon the Law(Ten Commandments), we should daily strive try to keep the Law, but also knowing that "all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God." None of what is written here will satisfy the original poster. Quite frankly no words of men or mankind or me or anyone else will convince anyone to believe in God(See below). But most believe in moral authority, just run into their car and say you won't pay because it really doesn't matter in the scheme of things, funny how morals and authorities are sited at a dizzy pace...(suddenly law is on their minds and written on their hearts) Thanks Blake for the awesome attempt to engage in a civil manner. While these posts usually end the same way it was neat to see an attempt at a formalized discussion. "Faith comes by hearing and hearing through the Word of Christ." Rom. 10:17 (Message edited by revz on January 15, 2011) (Message edited by revz on January 15, 2011) |
