| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Here's an interesting comparison of various rounds shot into ballistics gel. Which do you want to be shot with?  | ||
| Road_thing |
 | ||
| Kc10_fe |
5.7 period DOT.... | ||
| Kenm123t |
The 40 short and weak was a detuned 10mm. The Bren Ten was built CZ by Dornus&Dixon its chief proponant was Jeff Cooper. It proved popular with some 1911 builders till its hot loads started breaking slides. Buffers lasted a short time. Colt only produced the Delta Elite for a short time. Without a major company such as COLT producing 10mm gun it fell out of favor. The 40S&W allowed existing designs to converted to the shorter case, as well as make major caliber in IPSC with out over loading 9mm rounds I prefer a 45 1911 but carry a P85 Ruger a huge service type 19shot da auto on occassion, | ||
| Slaughter |
Sifo - that chart .45 ACP (last shot) - should be more like 875 fps. It's a SUBSONIC round - not 3 times the speed of a 30.06 (simple typo but NO BULLET is going to hit 8,000+fps) - let alone the clunky 45 ACP | ||
| Sifo |
Looks like someone double tapped the 5!  | ||
| Spatten1 |
Interesting 9 vs. 40 perspectives. I had assumed that the .40 was the best compromise of the 9 and the .45. Since so many LEOs use 40's and they can hold so many bullets, I figured it had superceded the 9. Good to know the 9 is still considered such a relevant cartrige, since that's what I've got. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I got rid of my xd45 for two reasons. Ammo cost was significantly higher to keep shooting with and I didn't like to carry such a big pistol. Switching to the xd9 subcompact was the right choice for me. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Either a 9 or 45 for me, and I really like my 9 for two main reasons, price and capacity, my Beretta Px4 holds 20+1. | ||
| Ezblast |
I'm liking the Ruger LCP and LCR, they can both disappear in a pocket, easy to clean, both run .38 and laser sites, traveling protection and home, though I prefer the Mossberg for home - and ammo for all 3 are inexpensive. EZ   | ||
| Forerunner |
I'm a big fan of .45ACP:  Or, if you want to go Hollywood:  Nels | ||
| Slowride |
I just picked up a Sig Sauer 522 and dropped my Vortex Strike Fire red dot on it. I'm taking the AR10,AK & 522 to the range on Saturday to get a little trigger time with my two youngins... Here is the new girl...     Uploaded with ImageShack.us | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Hollywood? Here's my "Hollywood".44 Automag. Shot a lot of IHMSA long range silhouettes with it. Ran the 220 yard rams a few times.Shoots well and function failures were rare unless you limp wristed it. It's worth more alive than dead and parts are available,but expensive.It's not worth 3 times more than what I paid for it in the 90's....it SELLS for three times more than what I paid for it..... for the last couple of years. FUN GUN!  These lighter loads save wear and tear on the gun,but still have plenty of power to take down the 50 pound steel rams. | ||
| Nukeblue |
whoa sexy! the real eye opener for me on the chart is the 357 sig. that wound cavity it about the same as the 45 (Message edited by nuke-blue on January 07, 2011) | ||
| Geforce |
Been looking heavily at the FNP 45 Tactical... http://www.fnhusa.com/le/products/firearms/model.a sp?fid=FNF062&gid=FNG001&mid=FNM0173 Anyone have experience with this piece? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Desert Eagles are fun but who wants a crew served pistol lol | ||
| Brumbear |
http://t2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcR6OaRF69R L_IQa63VKRug669ssjp3INGkZnmIQj4iTUmZyl3Vf5Q | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
FN45 is sweet especially the tactical version. I've heard great things about it. | ||
| Mnrider |
Hey all you guys with the AR style 22's.  Check out this ammo made for our guns. Works great in my S&W 15-22. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
You Californians need to stock up on ammo if you have been ordering it online. "Ecolifornia" is banning online ordering of ammo. At the end of the month it's over! Doesn't affect me here in Iowa...BUT,it may someday. Most of my ammo does come from online....good price and convenient. I really don't understand what problem they are solving.........which is typical for any new ban or law. | ||
| Sifo |
Ordering online is great. A few days later you get a box on your doorstep. What's wrong with that? What is the rational behind the new CA law? Sounds stupid. the real eye opener for me on the chart is the 357 sig. that wound cavity it about the same as the 45 I'd like to see what a .357 Magnum would look like. About the same size slug as the .357 Sig, but with much higher velocity. | ||
| Aesquire |
.357 magnum & Sig are within 50 some fps. ( on some loads the Sig is faster, others, the Magnum ) You can consider them pretty much the same ballistically. despite the current belief that good begins at .4 inch, modern ammo that expands has leveled the playing field, a lot. Bigger is better really does apply with full metal jacket (FMJ) or round nose lead bullets, but hollow points (HP), polymer tipped hollow points, expanding FMJ, etc. change the rules. ( still, a HP .50GI will make a bigger hole than a HP .32ACP... ) I favor Federal's FMJ expanding. It has a silicon ball behind an internally scored jacket. It was made for countries that forbid hollow points. It works even after you shoot it through glass, leather, or multiple cloth layers, which may make an old fashioned hollow point act like either a FMJ or a mashed chuck of scrap. "Always works" is better than "awesome when it does". Just my opinion. The funny part is the silicon is medical safe. I also don't like pistol gripped shotguns. Because I can't hit as accurate as I think I must to use it. In house ranges make the spread on a load of buck small enough that you must aim. It will not clear a hall. Just a fist sized part of it. Besides, pistol gripped 12ga. hurt to shoot. With a stock? That's another matter. Even a short stock is better. You may be able to pick off flies with a cruiser, but I'd be better off with grenades. YMMV There are 2 main things to consider on terminal ballistics. Does it reach the vitals? figure it must penetrate about a foot. Does it make a big enough hole to let the angry out? A 12ga. birdshot load makes a huge hole, but probably won't stop an angry guy. It doesn't poke a deep enough hole. Don't use it for defense. More than one police officer has died because he practiced with low recoil bird loads, and forgot to put buck loads back in, and failed to stop his killer. That would utterly suck. http://www.federalpremium.com/products/details/han dgun.aspx?id=406 Informative & funny. http://www.theboxotruth.com/index.htm | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you need to 'stack' your ammo in the 12, buck shot, sluck, buck shot, slug, buck shot slug etc 9 in the weapon, 6 on the side rack 4 on the butt, the bandolier belt has fifty If I go through that, and you are still coming, well I am indeed over my head. | ||
| Sifo |
.357 magnum & Sig are within 50 some fps. ( on some loads the Sig is faster, others, the Magnum ) You can consider them pretty much the same ballistically. According to the load info in Modern Reloading the fastest load available for a .357 Sig gets you 1375 fps. The fastest load for a .357 Magnum gets you 1630. The don't list the energy involved, but as we all know energy goes up exponentially with speed. I'm just guessing a 15% increase in speed is going to give a good jump in the energy on impact. Of course all of this really is largely mental masturbation. A good hit with any of these slugs will take down the BG quite effectively. As you correctly point out, getting a good hit is very important. It matters not what you miss with. EDIT: I should make it clear I was comparing load data for 125 gr. bullets, not the absolute fastest load available. Trying to keep it a Red Delicious apple to Golden Delicious apple comparison.  (Message edited by SIFO on January 08, 2011) | ||
| Aesquire |
Sifo, for previous post i just checked Winchester's site for a "typical" load. (not the fastest ) Sig was 55fps faster. I just now checked Federal's site, 125gr. jhp, the Magnum is 90fps faster. The .357 Sig is meant to be a .357 S&W Magnum, for semiauto pistols. It's close enough to the Magnum and a big enough jump over the .38 Special to be "good enough". So arguing about it really is self abuse.  It matters not what you miss with. A truth worthy of Yoda. City, My problem with slugs ( see box-o-truth guys ) is massive over penetration. A shot down the hall in my house will endanger people a couple of rooms into the next house. Buck might not get all the way inside. I'd rather keep the slugs in a carrier on the gun, not in it. Slugs are only needed for armored targets in a self defense situation. ( like vest wearing home invaders or people in vehicles ) If I'm using slugs by need, I have serious problems, and probably not enough ammo on me. ( mental note, buy side saddle carrier ) Face it, you really need a vehicle mounted crew served weapon to have "enough" firepower. A M2 or a Mk.19 on a F350 is about right.  | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, for previous post i just checked Winchester's site for a "typical" load. (not the fastest ) Sig was 55fps faster. I just now checked Federal's site, 125gr. jhp, the Magnum is 90fps faster. The .357 Sig is meant to be a .357 S&W Magnum, for semiauto pistols. It's close enough to the Magnum and a big enough jump over the .38 Special to be "good enough". So arguing about it really is self abuse. Thanks for the clarification Aesquire. I don't have typical load data. That's probably a better metric though. City, My problem with slugs ( see box-o-truth guys ) is massive over penetration. A shot down the hall in my house will endanger people a couple of rooms into the next house. Buck might not get all the way inside. I'd rather keep the slugs in a carrier on the gun, not in it. Slugs are only needed for armored targets in a self defense situation. ( like vest wearing home invaders or people in vehicles ) If I'm using slugs by need, I have serious problems, and probably not enough ammo on me. ( mental note, buy side saddle carrier ) I favor Federal's FMJ expanding. It has a silicon ball behind an internally scored jacket. While I'm in agreement with you, the jacketed hollow point isn't much if any better as far as how many walls it will go through. They also tend to pack up with drywall or heavy clothing and not expand when they are supposed to. I'm not sure if the silicone insert bullets prevent that or not (I think they are supposed to). You really need to think about defensive positions in your house. What directions are you likely to be shooting should the worst come true. Think about what's in those directions beyond where the BG will be. I'm pretty luck to be on a culdesac with a big park behind my house. I can shoot either direction down my hallway upstairs and not hit either neighbor. Towards the back of the house shoots into the park. Towards the front, I would hope to have the high ground and be shooting down the stairs, so a miss would be into the ground. No kids in the other bedrooms to worry about either. Shooting from the downstairs is a bit more troublesome. I've "wasted" lots of time on the Box-O-Truth site. What have I learned? "It's fun to shoot stuff!"  | ||
| Aesquire |
I've seen several tests on Federals EFMJ with the food safe silicon ball. There are other designs from other companies that also should expand reliably, but the Federal EFMJ works. If it goes through glass, leather, cloth etc. it will expand, maybe before it even gets to you, and that can affect penetration. TANSTAFL. My ideal self defense weapon would be a stunner from Star Trek. I don't usually have a need to heat rocks, etc. so just stun would be fine. However. It would also be the best weapon for a bad guy. Walk into a bank and stun 'em all. Cop car coming? stun & stroll. Take out the whole crowd if that's what it takes. No harm no foul. ANY technology has the potential for abuse. It was probably the day the club was invented that it was used to harm another sentient. (see 2001 a Space Odyssey) | ||
| Aesquire |
Also... A "hot" load for a .357 S&W Magnum is 35,000 psi. For a .357 Sig, 40,000. Shorter fatter case. The potential edge is for the Magnum. IMHO. Why? Reloaders can load for, say, a Ruger Blackhawk .357 Magnum a very hot load with heavy cast bullets that has more power than you can tolerate in a .357 Sig Glock. The pressures and speed of recoil have to match the action of the semiauto. Revolvers have far less limitation. You can also get a semi in .357 Magnum if you want, but expect a 1911 size platform or bigger. ( that would also have issues with a max load made for a Blackhawk ) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I have never had an instance where clacking a round in the champer of the Mossy did not solve a whole bunch of shiat. I have yet to pull the trigger in defense, but I am betting inside my 1000 sg ft apt, you going down from the first one, if there is a friend behind you, he will get the next slug. If I get up at night because the motion sensors when off, it is vest, belt, 12 gauge, 38, I have on both accounts clacked a round, and heard the 'Oh shiat lets get outta here!' spackle and drywall are cheap  problem with crew served weapons.... is that you need a crew to feed them ! but indeed awesome | ||
| Hdbobwithabuell |
Slowride - How do you like the 522? I liked mine so much I bought a second  (SWAT with the quad rail) I've been looking for a decent red dot; something a little better than the cheapo I have on there now but not too high dollar. I really like the look of that Vortex on yours. Worth the $$$?? |
