| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
So I'm looking at starting to do my own reloads. I've been told that a Dillon press is the best you are going to find. I hope so, because it's simply beyond the budget I have in mind. Cabela's has a couple of Lee presses that I'm looking at. First there's the Lee Pro 1000. This seem like a great deal at $160. It has little in the way of extras though. Or there's the Lee Deluxe Turret Press Kit. Not a true progressive press, but comes with some extras, like a cheap scale, and tools for cleaning up the casings. If the scale and powder measure will wind up getting upgraded I would rather just get what I need up front. So who's been through this? I can live with the slower production of the Turret press. Are the extras included a good deal though, or will I be looking for a better scale later on anyway? No doubt I'll be looking for casing trimmers and deburring tool at a minimum if I get the press only deal. I'm kind of wondering about the powder measures on either press. That seems to be pretty critical. Are either up to the task? I've been reading up some, and am currently reading Modern Reloading by Richard Lee. Saying that book is biased toward Lee products is an understatement, but it's helped much with understanding the whole process. Any suggestions before I waste my $$$? Thanks! | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
http://www.cabelas.com/catalog/product.jsp?product Id=728427&destination=%2Fcatalog%2Fproduct.jsp%3Fp arentCategoryId%3D104792580%26categoryId%3D1047610 80%26subCategoryId%3D104516280%26productId%3D73175 8%26type%3Dproduct&WTz_l=YMAL;IK-211015 you might think about a rock chucker yes those 'extras' will wind up being upgraded. may as well get something decent now. | ||
| Slowride |
Sifo - I just went through this last year. I had the dollars to buy whatever I wanted to start with, but what and where to start. I knew I wanted to reload 9mm, .40, all .30 cals (308, 30-30, 30.06, 7.62x39) and lastly maybe some .380's. I started researching and scouring the web and where I ended up was exactly at the Lee Pro series. I decided to go this route for one very simple reason... Experience If I could force myself to go slow and know every step of the way blindfolded then I would be more aware of inconsistency and errors in the loading cycle of a turret or progressive press. I would much rather buy ammo in bulk knowing I'm not going to destroy my $500-$1K firearm than purchasing a progressive only to miss the obvious because I didn't spend time on the basics. So my 2cents... buy the Lee Pro 1000, get the basics down, build a few thousand rounds and then upgrade to the system of choice. Think of it as an apprenticeship it will definitely pay off. | ||
| Sifo |
Just curious, how are you measuring powder for your loads? The automatic measure on the press seems like the way to get decent production. Are the accurate enough though? If they are up to the task the scale almost seems redundant other than for occasional QC checks. Am I missing something? This seems like one of the most confusing hobbies I've ever seen. I like it! | ||
| Badbuell08 |
I have the Lee press and it works for what i do. I load for my 22-250 and 223 and 308. the scale is not bad and either is the powder thrower but I would recommend getting a powder trickler. I did buy a electronic powder thrower though. (YOU can call me lazy) lol for the money its a good deal to get ya started and it will last a long time. Hope this helps. Jeff pm me if you want my number and ill talk to ya about it if you would like. | ||
| Blake |
I'll be interested in this discussion. My decades old Lee Load-All has been great for twelve gauge shells, but I have zero experience with cartridge reloading. | ||
| Badbuell08 |
well said slowride and sifo you need the scale to make sure the powder thrower STAYS right. If it gets messed up for some reason then that is when bad things happen. ALWAYS remember "TAKE YOUR TIME" | ||
| Strokizator |
I used a Lee turret press for years. Everything from 45ACP (1000's) to 243 Winchester and 7mm Weatherby. I found reloading a very relaxing hobby and ballistics to be a fascinating science. | ||
| Never2late |
For a first time loader I'd probably point you towards a single stage press. Get some good books and be very careful with loads toward the top of the range. The RCBS Rock Chucker is a real work horse. Get a good scale and powder throw. I've loaded ten's of thousands with it and while slow you can always count on the consistency. Check, check and recheck your work. With some powders it can be almost impossible to tell a double charge in a pistol cartridge just by looking, thats why quality control is so important, don't get in a hurry or reload after a few cold ones. That being said its very rewarding to be able to shoot and develop you own loads that work well with each firearm you may own while saving some money and having fun. Sorry for the rant about safe reloading, learned from a retired army Command Sargent Major who was a stickler for safety and I guess it sunk in! | ||
| Poppinsexz |
Can't go wrong with the Rock Chucker kit as a good starting point for single stage. Quality gear. | ||
| Buellkowski |
I use an old RCBS press with a Lee neck resizer (no need to resize the whole case since I reload only for the same rifle) and a Lee bullet seater. My press accomodates a primer tube. I trickle & weigh my powder manually for optimal consistency. Sure, it takes longer but I'm a slow-fire-for-accuracy shooter. +1 Never2late. I suggest doing it old-school & simple if you don't shoot 500 rounds per week. | ||
| Westtx_cr |
I went through this decision about 3 years ago. I ended up going with the LEE classic turret press. It is nice heavy cast iron and taller than the deluxe press and can therefore load the longer rifle cartridges that the deluxe cannot. Once I get going it takes around 7 seconds a round. I load for 45 ACP, 10mm, 500S&W, and 308. Unless you plan on loading thousands of rounds at a time I don't see the need for anything bigger (and more complex). It takes about two seconds to change calibers. I highly recommend the classic turret over the deluxe turret. I read a lot of reviews on Midway USA and Cabelas that gave a lot of good information on what to get along with it (safety prime, double disk, etc.). Don't forget to factor in all the little things that you need as well, like trays, ammo boxes, powder, primers, bullets, brass, a scale, and a bullet puller. They don't cost much individually but they sure add up quick. You absolutely need a reloading manual (I like Hornady myself) and a how-to book. The ABCs of Reloading is good. I'll try to keep an eye on this thread if you have any questions. | ||
| Westtx_cr |
I missed your questions the first time I read the OP. The LEE safety scale is great. I have the auto disk powder measure with double disk kit. The powder is consistent as long as your pull is consistent, which is easy. I recently got to play with an older Dillion press that was nice except for the fact that you have to reset the dies for every caliber change. Don't under estimate how annoying it is to set up the dies every time. | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
rcbs single stage for accurate rifle . dillon progressive for pumping out pistol carts . you just can't go wrong with the rcbs rock chucker . | ||
| Stirz007 |
Rockchucker (RCBS) is good and solid - I've been using the same press for maybe 20 years. Dillon is nicer for sure. What are you planning to do with it - rifle, pistol or shotgun? A little or a lot? My rockchucker works great for rifle loads, because I might only load 50-100 at at time. Pistol, same thing, maybe a couple of hundred at a time. I don't reload shotgun. If I was going through a thousand rounds a month, I'd want a progressive, and the best one I could afford. But because I use the press quite a bit to work up loads, I readjust settings every 10 rounds or so. The (non-progressive) press makes that pretty easy. - I weigh every load, so the powder measure feature doesn't get used so much either. I guess the "best" depends on how you want to use it. The Lee and RCBS are pretty close - you like red or green better? | ||
| Sifo |
Thanks for all the replies. A lot of these tips are meshing nicely with what I've been reading. It should help me make better decisions on where to spend the cash and where I can save some bucks. I love things that require attention to detail so reloading should be a great hobby for me. I'm an OK shooter, but it's my wife that is really showing talent after only about 6 months. She had her first club match last month and came home very excited, not only that they won the match, but also that she out scored our friend Sonia who shoots at least twice a month for about the last 3 years. (Sonia did have a bit of an off day, but my wife still shot very well.) So you may have seen her new S&W .357 Magnum in the other gun thread. After much talk about getting a bigger gun and a revolver she bit on this. So the plan on reloading is to strive for accurate rounds in the .357. Probably .38 rounds as long as the shorter casing doesn't cause any accuracy issues. So no "hot" rounds, probably light rounds are more likely to keep recoil low. I understand that too light of a charge has it's own safety issue too though. I'll also do loads for my 9mm to get what cost savings I can shooting that. Maybe a .45 ACP in the future, then reloading would start paying of cost wise. It's damn cool finding a sport that we both really enjoy and my wife is really excelling at. In almost 3 decades she has done a lot of things where she has felt disadvantaged just from lacking the physical strength I have. I think she is kind of digging being able to finally out do me in a sport that I choose to get involved in. I'll just have to get better and keep the pressure on.  So as Never2late stressed, keep it safe. As many pointed out, take your time, and pay attention to details. I'm still up in the air about what press to get, but much better armed to make a choice with the help of all the replies. This sure make the off season of riding easier to take! Thanks all!  | ||
| Reepicheep |
The Lee stuff I have is cheap and economical, but needs to be used within it's limits. My first Lee press was sort of a starter kit and was C shaped. Lee claimed it could do anything, and it worked well for handgun rounds, but I ripped the head off of it (blew apart the casting completely) after about 50 rounds of .30/06. So I upgraded to the Lee O shaped press (challenger maybe?). Much stronger. It loaded thousands of handgun rounds, and made it through several hundred rifle rounds (6.5x55, .30/06) before the hinge casting exploded. Picked up the phone and called Lee, and they knew of the problem and sold me the "fix" kit for half price (under $20 shipped) and I was good again... but it was all unnecessary grief. The Rockchucker is one I have used first hand, and its massive. I thought it was ridiculously over engineered right up until I ripped my second lee press into pieces.  That being said, the Lee classic with the upgraded hinge is probably fine now, and is probably pretty darn cheap. I have also used a Dillon 500... probably the best. A little odd that it is progressive but must be manually indexed, but you can do pistol or rifle on it and it is a well sorted system. I also got to spend two evenings with a tricked out Dillon 1050. Oh my. You could easily start at noon and have a thousand rounds ready to go by dinner. But the 1050 only does pistol, and I will echo the previous comment about being so detached from the process that things could go wrong and you won't notice until you are on the range. The progressive stuff takes a lot of setup and fiddling and tuning. When it works, its incredible, but you spend a lot of time in setup. If you are shooting a thousand rounds a week, its a slam dunk, get one. But if you just shoot a few hundred rounds a month, the single stage presses aren't so bad. You de-prime and full length size 100 or so (under an hour) one night. The next night in front of the TV you case trim them if necessary (only sometimes), prime them with your hand primer, and the next night you go put in the powder and the bullets (another hour). Not bad at all, and very relaxing. The Lee scale is cheaply made, but incredibly accurate, and highly durable. A nice design to do anything but impress people. The powder measure is similar, very simple, but very effective. The hopper tends to work its way closed if I don't watch it, and it doesn't have a nice "knocker" so I beat up my knuckles, and it gets off a little if I go under 2/3 full... but no big deal to work around, and again the price was great. The lee dies are some of the best I have used as well. Carbide is nice, as they don't require as much (if any) lube. The lee hand primer works fine, but is also kind of thinly made. The RCBS knock off of it is a lot nicer and beefier. You also want a brass tumbler, and a set of those nice harbor freight digital callipers. The Lee book is also pretty conservative at times. For example, the load for .30/06 with IMR4895 is way low relative to what IMR recommends on their website. Its a nice comprehensive starting book though... and probably had usable loads for everything you need. (Message edited by reepicheep on January 04, 2011) | ||
| Kenm123t |
I have a old Lyman Spar T turret press I use for some smaller quanties of pistol ammo Every thing else loaded on a Dillion 500b Who said you have to reset a Dillon on a caliber change? If your useing same size shell holder 308 or 30 06 which uses a # 10 just the entire tool head with powder measures etc set up. Tool head changes take less that minute. I still confirm and trickle all competition ammo powder charges since most of those are 40+ grains of a IMR stick shaped powder which bridges and will throw only .2-.3 tenths of a grain accuracy. I have reloaded for 40 years and make fire formed brass for my .280Ackley Improved it is hand load only Wildcat. Its my favorite 1000yard rifle. As for upgrades your reloading bench will have more Farkles than your Buell | ||
| Slaughter |
How many rounds and what kind of shooting is important. The Dillon gets problematic when doing larger rifle (308, 30-06) but it is ultra bitchen for pistol using carbide dies. (I have an RL550) I use RCBS for bench rest and hunting with the good powder scale. Check ebay! (Message edited by slaughter on January 04, 2011) | ||
| Nukeblue |
lee auto turret is awesome. i paid $115 for mine & load 9mm, 40 & 45. i've not done any rifle ,yet... although .223 is coming soon. the hand auto prime is sweet & the auto disk works perfectly. i hardly ever check the powder charge cause it works so well. highly recommend it for the casual loader. i can load about 100 rounds an hour. its not real fast but i have nothing better to do while i'm listening to right wing radio. i've loaded about 5,000 rounds so far with no problems. i also recommend bullseye powder for those pistol calibers i mentioned. if you end up with one hit me up & i'll give you my recipes ##i have each caliber set up on their own turret so its an easy change. $10 each ## (Message edited by nuke-blue on January 04, 2011) | ||
| Teeps |
My 2 cents. Reload for the right reason... the only reason. Accuracy through consistency. When I was a teen my uncle (rest his soul) taught me how to reload high power rifle rounds. We did everything by hand. He taught me how to make match grade ammunition. And, it showed by the quarter size and smaller groups at the 150 yard range. He really liked telling fellow shooters,at the range, that, "that kid" loaded the very ammo he was launching down range with near sniper like accuracy. Best advice I can pass to you is: Do take it slow. Do not allow any distractions, when reloading; especially when measuring the charge. Stick to known loads. Save working up the full power or wildcat load until you have a few thousand rounds under your belt. If you are not sure about a step in your process, start over. Most of all have fun... | ||
| Aesquire |
The Rock Chucker is an anvil. Great. I've had good luck with the Lee stuff, it's under rated, but great within it's limits. Avoid any "C" shaped press, you want a solid frame to take resizing. The basic Lee set with powder "measures" ( plastic sups with handles ) will get you started but it's the little things that add up, like little blocks to hold the cases. Midway USA can hook you up with all the gear. I would love a progressive for mass production, but like the safety of priming by hand with a hand primer, gives you much better feel. I use a digital scale. Balance beam scales are what I grew up with, and understand both how good and bad they can be. ( cleaning and calibrating are pretty quick for me, I was a Metrology lab guy ) But digital scales are so much faster and less subject to a mistake when reading. I borrowed a buds RCBS Chargemaster that trickles the powder into a pan automatically and slows & stops when it's just right. Ones on my wish list now, I'd do every load that way. Uber-programable jobs are a joke to me. I want to enter the grains for each load from my notes ( oh, yeah... keep notes! ) but if you already have the electronics in the box, why not put your favorite loads in memory? ( Damn I sound like a fogie.... darn kids, get off my lawn! ) The important part is. One powder out on the bench ONLY at a time. One load, one caliber one bullet weight one THING at a time. Never do 2 different "actions" at a time so you don't put fast pistol powder in your rifle or double charge or ( even worse in most cases ) light charge and stick a bullet in a barrel. That one can ruin your life. For straight wall pistol cases go with Carbide dies. Way less fuss with lube and worth the extra bucks. Oh, and listen to the old guys with all their fingers. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Funny you guys mention Lee. I did some plastic part consulting/design work for Lee a couple of years back. | ||
| Swampy |
Lee makes some really excellent collet neck sizing dies. If you are building bullets for a bolt action gun using those dies can really tighten up your groups. | ||
| Slaughter |
Swampy is right on the Neck sizing dies. If you are loading for one rifle and one rifle only - and are using a bolt action, it'll get you the most consistent shots. Won't work on autoloaders, you'll get all sorts of failure-to-feed issues. Also get a case trimmer (don't know if that's been mentioned yet) but each time the case is fired, it extrudes/lengthens. | ||
| Slaughter |
OOPS - shoulda read above... you're talking PISTOL. 38 special cases will give you more consistent LIGHT loads in a 357 - rather than partially-filling a larger .357 case and getting inconsistent powder burns. Light loads are GREAT FUN> Don't know if the plastic cases and primer-fired plastic bullets are still available but if you want to do paper punching in your own garage, you can't beat that for FUN! | ||
| Stirz007 |
Sifo - nothing against Cabella's, but I'd give props to Midway USA - this stuff is their specialty (big NRA supporter, too). If you want the cool farkles, check out the Sinclair stuff - top rate, especially if you want to go the long range rifle route. Teeps and others are right - If you have the geek/dilbert gene, you can really dial in your ammo (and group size) - but it is a step by step quest, keeping notes, weighing, measuring, testing, repeat. +1 on carbide dies (I like RCBS and Sinclair). | ||
| Doerman |
You're amazing Steve. You can make anything! The UlyBolt proves it. | ||
| Slaughter |
Midway does still sell the Speer plastic primer-fired rounds: Bullets Cases Way cool, re-shootable, uses just the primer to shoot. LOVED using them just to play with. No recoil, very little noise. Had a S&W Mod 28 for YEARS... N-Framed 357. With that 44Mag frame, you could shoot HOT loads but they were never as much fun as light loads. Something you can try for close-in defense loads is taking a hollow-base wadcutter and loading it "upside down" - with the hollow "base" now aiming forward. It's now a SUPER hollow-point. Load for about 600 fps and it'll make a quarter-sized hole in a target at 10-ish feet (the distances where most defensive gunplay takes place) Probably won't penetrate more than a layer of drywall.  That's the cool thing about reloading! You have OPTIONS! | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I've reloaded in the realm of 120,000 rounds......... from .17 Remington to 50 BMG. Started with a Lee hand die set for 12 gauge in the 60's. Have had several Lee turret presses(use them,sell them at a gun show and buy another new one). What's nice was the turret set,set up for each caliber. RCBS AmmoMaster is a stout beast for the 50BMG. I have an extinct C&H progressive in line loader that is super fast for straight wall cartridges.....but is quite tinkersome to get it set up and running well. The worst thing about reloading,the more you know/learn, the more stuff you have to buy.Special dies,reamers,trimmers,powder scale,trickler, calipers, runout/ concentricity guage/dial indicator,drop tubes,home made gadgets and on and on. I consider the Lee mediocre,but have loaded championship winning long range ammo with it,time and again The machine/tool is only as good as the operator,regardless of the quality on the machine/tool. The most difficult ammo I've made is transforming .308's into 44 Automag rounds. What a bitch! The most tedious is making honor guard blanks for 30-40 Krags with smokeless powder that has a loud report with no ejecta and yet safe in the old rifles.Takes a week of evenings to produce 50 blanks. Cordite just doesn't cut it as the misfires from a box of 20 old military stock: 5 out of 7 will go "click". Black powder blanks would have been easy........but the Legion crew simply aren't going to clean the rifles after every funeral. |
