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Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 05:28 pm: | 
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Matt,
Gun crime has subsided in Britain?
You really don't hold that when guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns? Not counting the military and other security forces of course. |
Bikertrash05
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 06:17 pm: |
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Blake brings up a good point, only criminals have guns in the UK, and there are plenty of gun crimes. I've never been across the pond, but from what I have seen, read, and heard, the movie Harry Brown is what I think the UK is like.
(Message edited by BikerTrash05 on January 20, 2011) |
Neurorider
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 06:31 pm: |
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No blade length limit? hmmm. How about a Hisshou?
http://www.crkt.com/Hisshou-Fixed-Blade-KydexSheat h
You have to admit it is an impressive looking blade. Even more so in person!
Wow, so GB has absolutely no gun violence...because everything is illegal...anybody here seen Demolition Man again recently? I think I'll watch it again tonight. No offense, Trojan. But, guns mean freedom here. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 08:11 pm: |
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Never been a London cop. I have worked at a convenience store on midnight shift.
When the statistics show that you will be murdered after cooperating, more often that not, why not fight back?
Lots of crimes get stopped every day. Lots of would be heroes get hurt too.
The argument with guns is very simple. Outlaw guns, bad guys and police are the only ones with them. People lose.
All too often in such societies the Police become the bad guys, because the political will to disarm the population is close at heart to the political will to oppress the slaves.
Gun control in the United States is based on the desire to keep the newly freed slaves from shooting at the Klan when they come to hang, rape, or burn a cross. Annoying when the sheep fight back. At it's soul "gin control" is racist, and classist. All too often the rich with paid armed guards prefer the peasants not to be armed. More examples than I can mention.
But, lets say you have magical powers. With a wave of your wand ( oak, with Dragon Heartstring ) all the guns, knowledge of how to make a gun, gunpowder, or memory of a gun vanishes.... swish and flick.
Now we have a happy world where the large and evil prey on the small and weak. Some of us have knowledge on how to fight with mace, axe or sword, ( Cricket or baseball Bat will do in a pinch ) we'll be ok until we try to stop too many bad guys from doing rude things to a neighbor & his family.
Good news is, the Longbow is back.
Bad news is, the English haven't practiced many hours every week to have the skill to use it.
They don't even let Police in the City nearby have billy clubs. They would all die as soon as the bad guys figured out that numbers and rocks let them rule their 'hoods.
So sorry about civilization, too bad we can't remember the thing that let us live together in relative peace. Sucks to be us.
back in the real world....
I repeat, the winner of a knife fight is the guy who goes to the hospital, bleeding.
Close combat is dangerous, and requires training, practice, and attitude that few have ( without lots of training... even then...)
I too favor the little league aluminum bats. It is a deadly weapon and you will be before a jury if you use one. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, January 20, 2011 - 08:12 pm: |
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we have stringent laws regarding carrying offensive weapons
Monty Python is Offensive.
Weapons are tools. |
R100rs
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 02:07 am: |
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" The 'right to bear arms' seems a little strange to us but is obviously very ingrained in the whole US culture"ever since we kicked king george's ass it's been ingrained. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 06:11 am: |
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Matt,
Gun crime has subsided in Britain?
You really don't hold that when guns are illegal, only criminals will have guns? Not counting the military and other security forces of course
Gun crime is Britain is very very low (per capita) compared to the US and it is very rare that there is a 'mass' shooting over here. Those that do happen tend to be carried out by licenced owners who just flip out for some unknown reason rather than by criminal gangs having shootouts.
Criminal elements here do have guns (particularly gang culture in big cities) but they generally tend to shoot each other rather than innocent bystanders. Gun use during crime here is extremely rare (even most 'armed' robberies turn out to be replica firearms rather than real guns, which is another area of the law that needs to be addressed)). Until recently it was very unusual to see an armed police oficer on the street here, and the recent upsurge in armed officers is more to do with the perceived terrorist threats than criminal gun use.
Blake brings up a good point, only criminals have guns in the UK, and there are plenty of gun crimes. I've never been across the pond, but from what I have seen, read, and heard, the movie Harry Brown is what I think the UK is like
Don't believe what you read, it isn't like that at all  Knife crime is far far more prevalent than gun crime here, but even that is pretty much restricted to gang fighting in urban areas.
I am 50+ years old and was a police officer for 15 years. In all that time I have never attended a shooting or had occasion to encounter anyone with an illegal firearm either in London or later in the North East. I have walked around some of the most 'dodgy' areaas of London at all hours (I used to cycle to work through Brixton for night shifts!) and never felt anything but safe. I also worked with quite a few police officers who I would not want to give a gun to in any circumstances!
I had occasion to find myself wandering around a suberb of Miami (Cuttle Ridge I think it was called) after a few drinks at night a few years ago and certainly felt very different there! Maybe it was because I was in a different country but the local cop who found me and gave me a ride to my hotel was surprised to see anyone walking around at night!
When shootings occur over here they tend to make the news simply because they are very unusual rather than a common occurence.
When the statistics show that you will be murdered after cooperating, more often that not, why not fight back?
I've seen statistics that showed that more people were killed and wounded with their own guns than any other scenario.
I'm not saying teh US system is any better or worse than the uK, just a completely different culture and way of thinking I suppose. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 11:53 am: |
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Matt,
According to reporting, things have changed, much for the worse, since you were on the force and since more strict gun ownership laws were enacted there in Britain in 1997.
Culture of violence: Gun crime (in England & Wales) goes up by 89% in a decade
THE government was accused yesterday of covering up the full extent of the gun crime epidemic sweeping Britain, after official figures showed that gun-related killings and injuries had risen more than fourfold since 1998.
Rural Britain is being plagued by an armed crime wave despite Government attempts to clear the streets of weapons
The following is from nine years ago, but seems pertinent...
Excepting murder and rape,"Britain has overtaken the US for all major crimes."
One strong contention is that the 1997 handgun ban emboldened criminals. We see the same here. It has proven to be absolutely true. Criminals choose the softest targets they can find. People packing heat are not soft targets. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 12:15 pm: |
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Interesting statistics for violent crime rates (all for calendar year 2009):
Dallas, Texas: 8 per 1,000 people
London, England: 23 per 1,000 people
Source for American Stats
Source for UK Stats
I like my freedom to own and carry guns thank you. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 12:27 pm: |
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Att.Trojan The difference between the U K and the U S A we have Mexico on our southern border. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 12:36 pm: |
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Ever notice how Eastern Martial Arts weapons are mostly farm tools? Japanese Samurai, Ninja, and certain sword forms of Chinese arts are the exception. Why?
Because the warlords, kings and emperors demanded a monopoly on the tools of violence. A peasant that fights back is bad. A villager in Japan for centuries would be executed on the spot for having a forbidden weapon.
Those who would rule still prefer a monopoly. Those who would serve do not. ( they WOULD prefer that only good people be armed, but know that is NOT the case )
Now I don't advocate for individuals owning Fusion warheads. Although there are cases where such ownership is justified, A good background check and rules for secure storage and use seem rational rules.
Rocket propelled grenades? I'd say a permit for the launcher, and one for explosives for the grenades themselves. Maybe even training or a written test. Fair? ( inert practice rounds would need no such permit )
That's just for the convenience of criminal investigators in the event such things are stolen, and misused.
machine gun? A permit seems like a good idea. ( and is in fact the law in the U.S. AFAIK no one has been murdered by a licensed machine gun in this country since WW2 )
kitchen knife? Give me a break. ( heard rumours England was going to ban them.... has to be bull crap, no one is that insane, are they? )
Pointy stick?
Brick?
Cowboy, are you saying we need a moat? ( having one has given the Brits a different attitude, perhaps? )
(Message edited by aesquire on January 21, 2011) |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, January 21, 2011 - 12:44 pm: |
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I dont know but the Rio Grande sure as hell aint workin. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Sunday, January 23, 2011 - 04:44 pm: |
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Aesquire, in the UK, the legal description of a shotgun is, A smooth bored weapon with a barrel or barrels exceeding 24".
So a mortar or bazooka should fit the bill then.  |
Trojan
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2011 - 05:39 am: |
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According to reporting, things have changed, much for the worse, since you were on the force and since more strict gun ownership laws were enacted there in Britain in 1997.
Blake, like I said, don't believe everything your read. An 89% increase from almost zero is still a very very low figure.
Gun crime in the UK is still extremely rare indeed and is certainly not out of control like some of the reports will state. As for the Rural gun crime report that is pure fiction, obvioulsy written by someone with an agenda of their own unfortunately 
Sure there are deprived inner city areas in Liverpool, Manchester, London, Glasgow etc where gangs will carry handguns (or replica handguns converted in most caases) but these are still extremely rare as a percentage of the population. I know that Berlin, Paris and other major European cities have similar inner city problems of the same nature and others such as Naples are far far worse.
Interesting statistics for violent crime rates (all for calendar year 2009):
Dallas, Texas: 8 per 1,000 people
London, England: 23 per 1,000 people
Yet again, statistics can be made to prove almost anything and look a lot worse than they apear. What it doesn't tell you is that Police reporting procedures in the UK have changed in the last few years so that many minor assaults etc that didn't used to be included in 'crime' figures are now bundled in with more serious crimes. This means that bare statistics suggest that there is a big increase in crime when in actual fact it is purely a paper exercise by the police and nothing has really changed. If you get pushed in a bar (with no injury!) and report it to the police as a common assault it is now counted towards violent crime just as much as if you get stabbed/shot!
There is a political angle for Chief Constables having more reported crime in their area believe it or not. Police numbers are based on population per area and on reported crime. If you have no crime then the liklihood is that your funding will be reduced by Government. If however you have increasing crime numbers then the it is more likely that you will get increased numbers and more money from the top. It may seem strange but I actually had this confirmed to me by the Commisioner of the City of London Police 20 years ago!
In the same way, The City of London Police never had a drug squad, because if they did it was an admission of a drugs problem! No drug squad = no drug problem
The only real change in the law back in 97 was to formally outlaw automatic weapons rather than any majior shift in UK law. What we really need is minimum life sentences for anyone caught carrying a firearm (regardless if they use it or not) as that is the only thing that will get rid of the gang culture weapon carrying over here.
What is certainly true over here is that access to firearms is far far harder and much more restricted than in the US and therefore much more difficult for criminals to actually get hold of weapons of any description (despite some getting in from Eastern Europe). Automatic weapons are banned per se so the liklihood of criminals getting hold of automatic rifles/machine guns is pratically zero through normal burglary/theft etc. The majority of active weapons in the Uk are believed to be converted replicas or illegally imported weapons fom eastern Europe/far east. |
Johnnymceldoo
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2011 - 12:45 pm: |
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Do you guys in the uk have speed restrictors as well now? |
Crowley
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2011 - 02:21 pm: |
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Firearms and shotguns are NOT illegal in the UK (under UK Law a shot gun isn't a firearm) I have 5 legally held custom rifles - incl a semi auto (perfectly legal in certain calibers) Also, the Police encourage us to use Moderators, in case we sue them for damaged hearing after they have been refused. Do any US states allow Mods to be used? No restrictions on high capacity magazines either, except with shotguns that hold more than 2 shells (although you can have a 3rd in the chamber). Shotties with high cap mags, then become a Section 1 firearm.
Certain pistols are legal too, some have to conform to a certain length or can be historic replica muzzle loaders - not too cool with Gangstas |
Johnnymceldoo
| | Posted on Monday, January 24, 2011 - 04:13 pm: |
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Crowley, yes in Ohio and many other states we can have suppressors, machine guns, short barreled rifles and shotguns etc. Each one has a $200 tax on it and you must fill out the necessary paperwork with the atf. I wish our country looked at suppressors like yours does. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 - 04:27 am: |
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Do you guys in the uk have speed restrictors as well now?
No, just speed cameras (fixed and mobile) covering a lot of the major road network. Howebver in the area where I live the local Police don't agree with fixed speed cameras so we don't have any |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2011 - 06:46 pm: |
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Purchased Dies The Fire tonight, will start on it tomorrow |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, January 27, 2011 - 07:49 pm: |
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"We have four boxes with which to defend our freedom: the soapbox, the ballot box, the jury box, and the cartridge box."
Congressman Larry MacDonald (D-GA)
Swiped from AnnCoulter.com |
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