Posted on Wednesday, November 17, 2010 - 10:02 pm:
I wonder how well off the family is? You just know that some lawyers are going to wring every dollar possible out of this........all the while,making the family think they can get their kid can get an easy sentence.
This is one of those cases that you wish had ended in a "hail of bullets" with the punk being the only one hit. Nothing good can possibly come out of this.
As far as public hangings go...I dont recall the exact details, but the last hanging in Az was an overweight woman. When she was hung her head popped off...I guess it was a bit too shocking for the witnesses.
We had a prisoner in Washington sue the state because he had gotten too fat to hang, and refused to 'select' lethal injection.... In the states infinite wisdom and 'due' process he is still on death row two years after his appeal... which is 13 YEARS after his orginal sentencing.
At fifteen years.... it ceases to be a punishment, much less a deterent.
Prison needs to be harder, it needs to be up in Alaska pounding big rocks into lil rocks, if you want to escape, go for it, you will freeze to death in under ten, we will wait for your body to wash ashore. Adak has been empty for years. It is a hell that they have earned.
Most people make the case for/against the death penalty too complicated. It is simply the only way to ensure society that this gravest of crimes will not be repeated by this perpetrator. Our justice system exists to protect this society, some violations of law are so heinous that they must be stopped from ever happening again. Thus a death penalty for a very limited range of crimes.
Here is one from New York. Man gets angry at Girlfriend. Shoots, while holding three month old baby Son with a Shotgun, in front of State Troopers.
He was Sentenced today.
"Adam Theall, who murdered his newborn son, swears at victim's family members in court Published: Thursday, November 18, 2010, The Post-Standard
Adam Theall appears in Oneida County Court on Aug. 19. Theall was sentenced to 25 years to life today for murdering his infant son, Eithen Theall.
The man who killed his 3-month-old son with a shotgun in front of police cursed at the prosecutor and his girlfriend's family members at his sentencing today. Adam Theall, 21, uttered expletives at two of his former girlfriend's family members, then called a group of them "scumbags" as he left the Utica courtroom after being sentenced to 25 years to life. "Baby killer!" one woman shouted back. Theall, of Blossvale, in Oneida County, pleaded guilty in September to second-degree murder. On June 22, he put his son, Eithen, atop the muzzle of a loaded shotgun and pulled the trigger on the porch of Theall's mother's house. Theall's behavior in court today was in marked contrast to that at his plea, where he sobbed throughout much of the proceedings. "I think we've really seen the real Adam Theall here today," Oneida County District Attorney Scott McNamara told Oneida County Court Judge Michael Dwyer. Dwyer sentenced Theall to 25 years to life, and ordered him to have no contact with Eithen's mother, Jamie Baker, or the other son Theall had with Baker, Adam Jr. Dwyer rejected Theall's explanation that he was high on drugs when he shot the baby. "It's not that you were high on drugs -- this is the way you thought was best to get back at Jamie Baker and that's why you did it," Dwyer said."
While I personally don't think there should be a death penalty administered by our country, it isn't because I don't believe people should be put to death.
I believe it is because our government is too incompetent to mete it out properly.
Our justice system, if you can call it that, is too preoccupied with bullshit to know right from wrong, much less up from down.
Of course, I think every citizen 16 and up should be armed, and when somebody calls you a card cheat you go out in the street and settle it. Sheriff comes along and asks a few questions, maybe takes the victor's pistol for a few hours while he cools down, and it's called a fair fight.
There would be a lot less lip flying around and people would mind their own f'ing business.
Someone pulls the trigger on a kid, and the whole town strings him up on the spot. General consensus among eye witnesses and justice on the spot. Sheriff can write up a report, but best stay out of the way unless he wants to join the defendant for obstructing justice.
Circuit judge comes by a few weeks later, rules on it after the fact based on eye witness testimony.
Death penalty stuff is tough. In general, I'm for it. However, I'm aware how our system works and had done some research in college on "The Innocence Project", and read about a number of people who were on death row for crimes they did not commit, and this group worked to have the cases reviewed and re-examine evidence with current technology. I remember one in particular where a man was in prison for rape and murder, found guilty because they found semen at the crime scene. At the time, DNA testing wasn't an option. Now it is. It wasn't his semen.
So, if we could be sure, then yes, I'm for it. But if there's any doubt (and how can you know), then it's a slippery slope. It pains me to think of how many people have been executed that didn't do anything wrong.
My main reason for wanting it is because a bullet costs less than a lifetime of meals and shelter. However, if prisons weren't required to have big screen TVs and the like, maybe it would cost less after all the legal costs associated with a death penalty case.
I'm all for rehabilitation, but at some point a person is just beyond hope.
Pwn - I agree. If more people were armed I think folks overall would be a bit more polite. If a robber were 99% sure I wasn't home but saw a Browning sticker on my front door, I'd bet he try the neighbor's place instead. You never know.
Back to the original topic. This "kid" has been in serious trouble since he was 13 or so. The news reports here in the Mpls area indicate the whole family had issues. MANY police calls to the residence in the past 2 years. This kid has some serious mental stuff going on. Zero empathy or emotions. He actually laughed on his way into jail from the police car.I'm not saying he is physco, I'm saying he is one of those types that has no soul. Sociopathic killer. Had he not done it now, he would have done it later. Quite possibly to a much greater extent. Think serial killer. I don't believe these folks are insane, they have wiring that is just TOTALLY hosed up. They need to be put away and throw away the key. There is NO rehabilitation for them. They are the type of people you meet and immediately fell bad vibes without ever talking to them. The classic "bad seeds".
Ok. here the next question for discussion. I don't have the answers, I'm just wondering what others think. There were signs for a long time that this kid was going to pop. Did the system fail? What do we do as a society when we know about young offenders that are already in the system? There are many more out there like this one. What do we do?
I have had it with 'mitigating circumstance' oh he wasnt held as a child, he was a loner, he wasnt breast fed, he was on drugs, he didnt like the color blue.
Make him dig is own grave; he can stand in front of it as he is either shot, hanged, drawn and quartered, buried up to his neck-covered in concrete and left for the animals.....
And if a revolution comes, you know the courts are the second thing that falls (incumbants being first)
I'm more for the quick bullet in the head. When complete sociopaths get treated first class for a handful of years in jail, and then released, it is the beginning of the end for a society. Maintaining that killing them is just as bad as when they murder for greed or excitement is simply ridiculous.
This is not about vengeance, this is about making sure it doesn't happen again. Pure and simple. These people do not belong in our future. If there is no society pay-off other than one murderer gone each time, not to repeat, that's fine. I'm willing to bet that such actions will decrease as well, but I'm OK if we just take out these monsters one at a time.
Spike .. this country really needs to let parents beat their kids. I'm not saying abuse them or anything! I'm from Tajikistan .. how you raise your kid is your business there. Ya, I was beaten for shit I did .. and I thoroughly deserved it. I actually wish I was beaten more for some of the shit I got into...
Looking at my little brothers who were raised here in the U.S. .. I feel sad. They don't respect elders nor are they afraid of punishment for their actions. 'Cuz they know they won't be beat for it...
I don't give a f**k what anyone sayz 'bout this post btw..
I agree with every Cityslicker opinion I've ever read... Wrong is wrong. He's old enough to know the outcome of cold blooded murder. Rehabilition isn't an option for this kid.
Want to see scary? Look at the state's guidelines (limitations) for foster parents. Their biological parents never disciplined, then well meaning parents aren't allowed to discipline either...
A new kind of jail is needed. A sound proof -puke proof -padded box. Most of these defendants have drug problems that they use as a crutch in court. Most, with records, are because of drug abuse. I feel a lot of these 'over the top' crimes would stop if when caught the first time for any kind of illegal drug abuse, they should be boxed. If it takes two weeks to come down from the effects of meth give them two months in the box. Small amounts of food and water only, and an occasional hosing down with clean water.
This might scare some of the in and out of rehab, lying, promise making, junky thieves not want to come back. Two weeks to get sober. Six weeks of sober in a box being clean and fed is better treatment than what they do to themselves while they are high.
I have some.....let's call them aquaintences.....who if this had been done on their first capture and arrest, might have saved their families and friends from all of the years of crying, begging, theft, verbal abuse, bail money, free rides, hand outs, and lies that have filled their lives. Good families who had a way-word child who cried his way out of everything starting when he was a young child when the parents were told it was bad to spank them.
When an eight year old tells you "I'm not worried, I can get away with it", you can see the future for him. I agree the problems usually start very early. A quickly applied hand to the ass with an explanation as to what was wrong worked for me and my brother. When we got into our early teens it was a switch from a crab apple tree or a folded in half belt to a well earned adjustment for our smart-ass responses or attitudes. None left permanent marks or any scars, but it deeply instilled what it meant to do wrong or to disrespect our parents authority.
Problem is that alot of parents don't want the authority or responsibility. They want to be buddy buddy with their kids or don't want to be labeled the bad guy by their kids. And the worst ones are the ones who refuse to give a f*ck. My child will be spanked if the word no doesn't work. People have forgotten that it's legal as long as it's open handed and doesn't leave anything more then a red mark.
I've had a yardstick or two broke on my butt.......and that awful sound of Dad's belt being flinged out of his belt loops. Best 'education' I ever received. Shouldn't be any other way today.
Coming from the other side of it. I had a step sister, that at the time of growing up (yes it was already a dysfunctional family for me at 5) would scream bloody murder that I was teasing, stealing, hurting, pinching whatever, and I wasnt even in the Fing room. I was beat shiatless for crap I never did.
So there is moderation in the whole thing. oh and the capper to it, this sun of a biatch step father murders my mother with 27 stabs with a fishing knife. Gets off with 2nd assualt and with a temporary insanity plea is back at his job in 6 months. And I dont get to kill him because it would be premeditated murder. F*ck the courts F*ck the family. My tree ends with me. Mine is the last line in lineage. they can all go to hell.
Sorry bout that CityX- I wouldn't wish that on anyone.
And hey, friend... of course it's none of my biz, but I gotta ask, have you ever tried to work all that anger/hatred into something less caustic, more useful?
Over the years I've been on this forum, I've noticed a very high level of emotion from you on this subject whenever it comes up.
Pardon me in advance for asking, but in the spirit of friendship, I was just wondering about that. (My sister is a chaplain, sometimes her good influence rubs off on me...)
Back to the spirit of the original post: I believe we are all born Homo Sapiens, but it's another thing altogether to become human. It's a very complex process, and it may never be complete.
Several of the examples posted appear to be much less than "Human"- in most cases they should be put down, just like a rabid animal.
The courts are a joke, all you gotta do is get a liberal jury, a splashy news cameo, a rich family, and you off. Or be a celebrity and you know you are scotch free.
Religion and shrinks; my distain for either ranks only second and third to the judicial system.
F*ck closure and some notion of getting over it. Every day I wake up is because that sun of a biatch didnt kill me the nite he butchered my mother. The last words she screamed were my name. Live with that everyday. Live with what set him off was when I asked what a divorce was two days earlier. (it was 1978 wtf did I know, i was 9)
Murdering Criminals need to be put down. I dont care if it is a deterent that f8cker is done.
all the kymbaya give rehabilitation a chance are all about criminal rights, until it is their house.
I aint killed the f8cker yet He gets to wake up every morning and wonder if today is the day I collect my revenge.
'You should do something about that anger' "It keeps me warm"
People are terrible. Often there is no reason or rhyme as to what we do. See it all the time. I had it rough growing up, welfare, food stamps, a minority where I grew up, single mom, I took my lumps. Still no excuse. I have always hated the excuses I hear at work and the people I deal with actually have it better then I did. Wrong is wrong, no matter where you come from. I rose above it, and try to help others do so. This "kid" is old enough to take his punishment as a man for what he did. A side note about the death penalty; I think it does deter those that may be on the line, and absolutly keeps that one punished from offending again. We no longer have the "good" type of society where people have the good sense not to go against it. There is often times a want to be the bad ass now-a-days. The "thug life" is a glamorous thing. Sorry, ranting, rough week.
(edit: And before anyone roasts me as being part of the problem, I KNOW our system is broken. But I have to work within the limits I am given. And those limits are dictated by "The people".) ("Doing what I can with what I got.")
