| Author |
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Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 01:34 pm: | 
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Not_purple_s2,
You are exactly right most people are under the assumption that to buy a Harley you are going pay 15grand or better and that is Harleys fault because they do not even attempt make it known that you can own a harley for less than 10. |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 02:05 pm: |
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Ya know I just spent 15 minutes or so looking at the current Harley models and other than the xr1200x I could not see my self on any of them. I used to like at least one model from each catigory but now it seems they have gotten rid of the base models and the sport (if there is a such thing) of each of the catigories of bikes they have. I used to like the normal sportsters but they don't exsist, I used to like the dyna superglide sport but it is gone, the street rod gone, I used to like the springer bad boy and it is gone.
So to me they have no bikes that spark my interest any more. |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 02:08 pm: |
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Aesquire; I'm practically in the same boat as you.... too young for baby boomer, too old for Gen x. I want a naked standard/sport tour/adventure type bike and a power cruiser.
Right now I have them both, a Uly and a Yamaha Raider. The Uly we all more or less know. But when I bought the Raider I very much wanted to buy American (its important to me) but HD had nothing that was (IMO) even close. The Rocker was probably the closest to what I was looking for but it was underpowered (in comparison) and too much $$. I was willing to compromise on either, but not both so I ended up going foreign.
Now, with the passing of Buell I'm starting to casually look for a replacement for the Uly. Its been a good run with the Uly but I'm worried that when I need parts they may not be available as quickly as I'd like.
I really wish there was something from HD I could consider. Hell, just knowing that there was something in the development pipeline would make me a happy camper and would get me to delay doing anything to replace the Uly. Unfortunately, for me and HD thats not the case. |
Crackhead
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 02:19 pm: |
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The street rod was the bike that should have been HDs foot hold into the power cruiser touring segment. But for some reason they never made good looking hard bags and windscreens.
Actually, HD should have handed Erik the keys and told him to make a Cruiser that sport bike riders would buy. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 02:41 pm: |
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styling from the 40's
Bold 'new' colors
Jeep. Call of Duty; Black Ops edition
we no return you to your regularly scheduled arguement about archain styling repackaged in an uninnovative wrapper |
Crackhead
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 03:15 pm: |
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Chrysler isn't betting the entire farm on the Wrangler. |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 03:42 pm: |
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I heard today from my buddy who repo's for Chrysler unfortunately it appears they are all but done Jeep is all they got from what I see. It is a shame too they made great cargo vans then they just stopped in 03 and started making 50$K bread vans IE freightliner MB shytwagons. I think Diamler had something to do with that but who knows? |
Jb2
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 03:42 pm: |
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On another note it is being reported that HD is setting up a plant in India to assemble Harleys there from American made components. Customers there will be happy just to get a Harley. Makes you wonder if the natural progression will take place by eventually building some, then all components there and exporting the bikes back to the US?
< http://articles.cnn.com/2010-11-04/world/india.bikes_1_india-market-harley-davidsons-haryana?_s=PM:WORLD >
(Message edited by jb2 on November 08, 2010) |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 06:54 pm: |
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jb2 - you dont read much of this site, do you? thats been discussed quite a bit on this website and as its been stated before - the same thing has been going on for a decade in brazil.....you dont see any brazilian stuff coming here |
Court
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 09:23 pm: |
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I was laughing at the Big O today . . . he mentioned HD while speaking . . .
Let me get this right . . . .40,000,000 with no electricity in their house . . . rampant poverty and he's touting the $80,000 Harley-Davidson . . . .
Who needs legalized smoke? |
Danger_dave
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 10:41 pm: |
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>>Who needs legalized smoke?
<<
What do you have? |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Monday, November 08, 2010 - 10:44 pm: |
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$80,000 Harley-Davidson . . . .
Where'd that number come from?
You are right about the rampant poverty - seen it with my own eyes, but when one of our Indian reps visited NH, he really wanted to sit on the Harley in our parking lot - and did without asking!
I had to shoo him off it before the owner or one of his friends saw it -lol!
There is a rising middle class there and a void of available QUALITY products.
My company sells many millions of dollars of American and EU made scientific products into India.
The people selling/buying/running that equipment are educated with real jobs - not customer service phone "techs".
Maybe this trip is a waste of time and money, or maybe it has the wrong agenda, but I suggest you don't let your dislike of "O" taint all of your thoughts.
Creating or massaging a taste for American products especially in growing markets is smart, regardless of where the final assembly takes place. |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 12:24 am: |
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>>>Where'd that number come from?
Various HD press releases and news stories. . . in fact, all the stories written about the Indian entry refer to it. The $80,000 will likely be the FLHTC.
quote:Harley-Davidson will be expecting top Bollywood stars to snap up its full range of bikes including the Fat Boy and the Electra Glide, the latter even has a reverse gear, that with import duty will cost in the region of $80,000.
quote:One hurdle the Motor Company has to deal with is a high import tariff for large-displacement machines in India, which effectively doubles the price. So the new Indian H-D lineup announced today will range from $15 – 76,000, placing them well out of reach of the GDP per capita figures for the nation - which fluctuates between $1000 to $1100 depending on the source.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/montymunford1/10 0034026/harley-davidson-uses-mangoes-to-finally-ri de-into-india/ |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 12:28 am: |
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quote:and a void of available QUALITY products.
Interesting that Hero Honda, the company who essentially OWNS the Indian market, is considered one of the top quality products.
I'm not against it. After HD has bamboozled the folks in York . . the the folks in Milwaukee bought into the nonsense and now they are strong arming KC . . it's only a matter of time till they are bringing sub-assemblies from India to the US. They won't make the complete bike there and sacrifice the "American Made" but they'd happy assemble Indian components in the USA.
Hence the lack of concern about the 110% tariff . . they'll only be going "that way" for a short time. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 07:24 am: |
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sacrifice the "American Made"
You only have to look at...well, just about ANY item in a HD store other than a bike, to see they have no problem with that.
More and more, I'm glad I got out when I did  |
Wolfridgerider
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 09:13 am: |
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in other words...
that pony needs to learn a new trick... |
Court
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 09:21 am: |
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>>>>I'm glad I got out when I did
You are not alone. Interesting to see some of the folks fleeing the ship. Even with HD offering some hefty "if you'll stay 18 month" offers the last 2 7-figure folks have given notice and left in 3 days.
The group that scares me the most are the middle, the $125,00 - $200,000 a year crowd, managers. These folks are paralyzed in fear, have no clue as to if they will or will not have a job a year from now, have mortgages, kids in school and wives reading the stories in the paper about "HD threatens to leave Milwaukee" and "HD to cut 800 more salaried".
Scary stuff.
Then they see how they bent the group at York over after threatening to leave . . and got concessions.
They they see how they bent the group in Milwaukee over after threatening to leave . . and got concessions.
Then they read the current articles about what they are doing to the folks in Kansas City. Shareholders are likely delighted . . , the company is cutting costs and showed, even with their core "sales of motorcycles" declining, a profit in the 3rd quarter.
They may be seeing some short term benefits but it looks to me (and I confess I'm a construction worker) like they are poisoning the very potion they need to save themselves in the long term.
What bothers me most is that the reasons I have no interest in buying a Harley-Davidson have nothing to do with the crap they pulled on Buell.
Court |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 09:41 am: |
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I didnt say it, another guy did, he made the comment about hte lowest priced sportster being as much as a top of the line japanese sportbike, i was just proving him wrong.
First, you've misquoted me at least twice now. See below for the correct line.
Second, you were too busy being indignant to see this part of the post:
When I said "nearly top of the line" (nearly being the operative word), I was referring to the 600-1000cc range. Maybe "middle of the road" would have been a better phrase. Granted, the full-on race-replica models have some impressive price tags attached.
Thanks to Froggy and Jaimec for their contributions. 
~SM |
Reindog
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 10:00 am: |
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I sold all of my HOG stock the day after the closure of Buell. Emotional response? Perhaps, but I am free to do with my money as I see fit. Perhaps HD has offered short term opportunities but I have found gains elsewhere and I refuse o support this company with investment or purchase of their product.
The leadership of HD has done nothing but reaffirm my decision. I won't touch it. |
Not_purple_s2
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 10:03 am: |
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Sword,
You can see in by the link in my post that if you don't mind a left over '09 you CAN get a "top of the line" supersport for the same price as Harley's cheapest sportster. But that's like comparing apples and energy drinks. Comparing cruisers you can again see for the same price as a low-end sportster you can also get leftover middle-high end japanese cruisers.
Again, if HD dealers are knocking a few thousand off the price of their left over stock then my argument is faulty... however I don't think that is the case.
When you go to a Harley dealer you expect to pay MSRP + set-up + chrome package + installation + polish + yadda yadda yadda.
Granted you might be able to go in and get a deal but I don't think that is what most buyers will expect.
However, you go into yamahondasaki dealer and you expect a deal. And not just because of the economy. Several years ago a friend of mine bought a Yamaha V-star, tax, title, and extended warranty, OTD for way less than MSRP. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 10:04 am: |
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They won't make the complete bike there and sacrifice the "American Made" but they'd happy assemble Indian components in the USA.
Aren't many of the components already made outside the US? I know the chroming process alone has gotten very expensive in the US because of environmental issues that are bypassed by going to Mexico. I'd be curious is the percentage of foreign made parts for a HD is available. |
Swordsman
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 10:51 am: |
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Purple, oops, missed that. Good call, though.
Sifo, I bet a LOT of those bits are non-American.
~SM |
Needs_o2
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 11:55 am: |
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Reindog,
+1, it's too bad more shareholders didn't do what you did, because if so, then H-D just might have gotten the message! |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 01:20 pm: |
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Interesting that Hero Honda, the company who essentially OWNS the Indian market, is considered one of the top quality products.
HONDA being the key word here and HONDA does not let them export the Hero Honda.
HD would be wise to follow the same model.
Based on talking bikes with my Indian friends, my opinion is that they would dump those small displacement, old tech, high quality, Hero Hondas on the side of the road if they could afford an Indian HD.
There are so many Hero Hondas on the road that there is no individualism, no identity to riding one. They are nothing but transportation to the masses.
HD's IMO in this country have almost reached that same point, but in a place like India it is 1980 all over again and the rarity of a HD insures the individuality of the rider just like it once did here.
IMO HD assembling bikes in India for the Indian market is a very wise strategy- there is a desire for the product, no real lust for Japanese cruisers, no hardcore desire for race replicas because the roads are atrocious, there is no glut of used HD's taking sales away from new bikes, and a emerging middle class that has been slowed by the world economy but will grow in numbers over the next decades.
What could be better?
As far as HD in the USA? Sure I'd like to add a Road King to the stable, but why would I buy a new one with so many fine examples available used?
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Pellis
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 01:24 pm: |
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Where'd that number come from?
http://www.harley-davidson.in/
883L Sportster - Rs.695,000 = $15,700
Ultra Classic Electra Glide - Rs.3,495,000 = $78,}985 |
Jb2
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 01:50 pm: |
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Hey Hybrid,
No I don't get here as often as I would like but have been a member since it was an e-mail group in the 90's. Most of my friends here overlook my lack of "keeping up" but I'll make sure to clear any future postings with you just in case I'm throwing out something that's already stale.
Thanks, JB2 |
Scott_in_nh
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 01:53 pm: |
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quote:
One hurdle the Motor Company has to deal with is a high import tariff for large-displacement machines in India, which effectively doubles the price. So the new Indian H-D lineup announced today will range from $15 – 76,000, placing them well out of reach of the GDP per capita figures for the nation - which fluctuates between $1000 to $1100 depending on the source.
$15K is still a ton money to most Indians, but some of my sales guys over there have a nicer car and home than I do and could buy one if they so chose. |
Sayitaintso
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 02:28 pm: |
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Its hard for us in States to get a gasp on what India really is like and whether there are enough folks with enough money there to make HD viable in India.
Even with the rampant poverty we hear about I'd be willing to bet there are plenty of folks that would line up to buy one. India has over 3.75 times as many people (nearly 1.2 billion) as the US. So, even if
(1) 1/2 of their population lives in abject poverty, and
(2) 1/2 of the remaining population still has no reasonable financial means of affording a high end bike like a HD,
that still leaves nearly the same number of people as the entire US that have the potential to afford a HD.
I admit I'm speculating about the 1/2 of 1/2 thing but the idea is that India is HUGE. I read somewhere that India graduates more honor students from high school every year than the US graduates from high school in total. I'm not a "defeatist" as to the future of the US but numbers like those are kinda staggering.
So IF (and thats a big if) HD can successfully crack the Indian market it has the potential to be huge for the company. Especially if the major components are made here and shipped there for assembly.
(Message edited by SayItAintSo on November 09, 2010) |
Brumbear
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 09, 2010 - 05:57 pm: |
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and they would be against the likes of totta, honda, suzuki and there product isn't that good |
Gohot
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 08, 2012 - 04:51 pm: |
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It occurred to me Harley appeals to a generic crowd, of the 'Good'OL Days, nostalgia. Well it may in fact, but those Greybeards are meeting their maker faster and faster every day. Meanwhile they have pretty well lost touch with the youth. They (the youth) have no concept of the 60's or 70's on up until just recently, and the ones powerful enough financially to afford an HD are in their later 20's or early 30's The market customer their trying to sell to is going extinct. so i don't think it bodes well for HD. You know what the British mindset got Triumph and BSA. Ignoring that there is a problem may kill them. |
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