| Author | Message | ||
     Whatever |
None of you have any clue what I went through as a child... I don't discuss it on the internt as a rule for security as well as legal reasons... and also my views on war have never been discussed on here... I think that is far too personal and complicated to discuss on the internet... besides, I respect the veterans I know personally too much to pass judgement on them, so I don't know where anyone is drawing their conclusions from...  (Message edited by Whatever on October 31, 2010) | ||
| Whatever |
I think I will just get the t-shirt framed, and not wash or wear it. That should work. The coffee stain probably won't come out anyway. | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
so why post this video calling conservatives idiots ? seriously , i really don't understand . | ||
| Whatever |
I think the video was making fun of Tea Baggers. I posted it because I thought it was really funny. Is a Tea Bagger the same thing as a conservative? They seem a lot closer to the lunatic fringe to me than a 'conservative'. | ||
| Whatever |
Isn't that the same as calling a Democrat a liberal or a progressive a Socialist or a progressive a Communist? Those all have different meanings to me, but some people seem to think that socialism and facism are the same thing as well, which is what made the video funny to me. I posted it on my Facebook page too, because I actually thought it was funny. | ||
| Dalton_gang |
Well I wasn't offended. In fact I thought it was funny. How could anyone take that video seriously anyway? | ||
| Whatever |
How did you spend last Memorial Day?             | ||
| Aesquire |
Char, I'd put that shirt in a display case, they make them for t-shirts. Glass front, sides wood, etc. Ask at arts supply store. Folded properly, you should be able to display it in a smaller, ( say, twice the size of the Obama logo should be large enough to fold it as desired ) glass front case about an inch thick. "Archival" stuff shouldn't emit fumes to ruin the shirt. I doubt very much Obama will be the last "Democrat Party" prez. Things swing, and the Parties re-invent themselves. usually without actually changing attitudes or people, unfortunately. Bill Ayers isn't in prison because they messed up his case, and had to let him go. He is still a radical mass murderer, is proud of it, and besides being a mentor, partner on foundations, and babysitter to the Obama family, is supposed to be just an acquaintance of the Prez. Really. Like he's lie about his ideology. Char, here's the first few hits for Google for"t shirt display case". http://www.pennzonidisplay.com/jerseydisplaycases. aspx http://www.sfdisplay.com/jerseydisplaycases.aspx http://www.amazon.com/Nascar-T-shirt-Display-Cabin et-Protection/dp/B001ADSHUQ Do it yourself! http://www.instructables.com/id/Framing-a-t-shirt- on-the-cheap/ Really, politics aside, Seems like a nice collectible, and historic. A grandkid might get a car out of it. | ||
| Dalton_gang |
Hey Char, It's kinda rare but it is possible to be a conservative Democrat. | ||
| Reindog |
The Tea Party is a nascent movement where Americans who believe in smaller government, restoration of liberty, the securing of our borders can come together. Our grievances against King George that was the impetus for the original Tea Party are now as valid as the slow awakening that this Wonderful Government has long exceeded its Constitutional mandate. The Tea Party might become its own party eventually but the immediate goal is the restoration of Conservative ideals to the Republican Party. Going on a screed about Tea Baggers is funny but irrelevant. At least we aren't being called the Hummer Party.....yet. | ||
| Aesquire |
On politics, I count myself as a liberal, not a real leftist. Or reformed, perhaps. I fail to see the essential difference between the European Fascist, Communist, Red, Green, or American Progressive lefty, since the ultimate goal in all cases is State control of the economy & as many aspects of life as they can get away with. Almost always an Authoritarian Regime is the result. ( which I oppose ) Some of the Social Democracies in Scandanavia even managed to go pretty far left without becoming all that repressive, but that's not the way to bet from a historical standpoint. Way more mass murder by governments from the authoritarian left. Not sure there is an Authoritarian right in the U.S. at all anymore. South America, Africa, sure, we still have dictatorships that don't run things on marxist failed ideas, but they tend to be basic military regimes, which are neither "left" or "right" but long predate the arguments of Smith, Marx, or Swift, but are as old as "might makes right". Charlote, what is the difference, in your opinion, between the Progressives, and Marxist/Stalinists/Maoists? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Guys time to realize we have a Soros Troll in our midst. The start of this thread was a thumb in your eye as was the Obama tee shirt line. The intolerance of the left and self hatred are quite apparent. Inciting trouble and unrest are the stock in trade of the Progressive Left. They are destroyers not builders of Civilizations. They have no dreams of accomplishment just dream of obstuctioning others dreams. Ultimately progressives destroy themselves when you ignore them or as I do just laugh at them and get on with life. Best way to combat Progressive Liberals is letting them understand their self flagellating rehtoric has irrelavent, Their personal self worth or Esteem is derived from the amount of trouble or discontent inflicted on others. All of Chars posts on this thread were calculated to incite unrest and illict a response Char can point to as being caused by testosterone poisoned bikers. Some here can probably trace posts of where examples of Badwebbers are portrayed as intolerant bigots. Rand Pauls was the target of a kamakazi agitator. Question is do we have one in our midst? | ||
| Reindog |
Look, no American wants a single American casualty in war. It is gut wrenching. But there must be perspective. Why didn't the Veterans for Peace include Iwo Jima or Gettysburg? It would have required more than an order of magnitude more flags and these were just battles, not wars. There were anti-war people against those wars also. | ||
| Dalton_gang |
Char, check this out: http://www.tnr.com/slideshow/78678/tea-party-democ rats-candidates-2010 | ||
| Reindog |
Ken, Please take a chill pill. You can't change anyone but yourself. Charlotte (late of Vista) knew that she was poking her finger at some of us but at least she didn't ask you to pull it. Keep it civil. If a poster gets totally out of control and is uncivil over a long period, they are dealt with. Char is several counties over from being out of line. | ||
| Whatever |
Ah, a question I can answer. The park where the Veterans for Peace had the memorial mile is, indeed only, roughly 1.25 miles. They simply had not enough room. Also, keep in mind, we can't effect the past, but only the present and the future. But I made some cool buds with a few of the crusty old fellas... mostly Vietnam Vets... A lot of the WWII vets are having less and less energy for this kind of thing...  | ||
| Whatever |
BTW, my grandfather survived Okinawa and Peleliu. | ||
| Reindog |
That is cool what the Vets for Peace do. We have a young spud in our SCAB group named Sammy. He did two tours in the Sandbox as a Marine and is now a peace guy sporting hippie hair. He is 24. I try and listen to everyone but am slowly reaching the point where Socialists and company need to get off my lawn or I'll whomp them with my walker. Socialism is simply un-American. | ||
| Aesquire |
Go grandpa. My Uncle survived Europe from after the Bulge to the freeing of the concentration camps, then was waiting on a boat with his bulldozer ( switched to Seabee from infantry ) when they called off the invasion of Japan after Nagasaki. Dad had a long walk back from Chosin as a Marine attached navy Corpsman. ( pronounced Core-men ) Char, Where did you get the figures for the display of headstones? Was each one 1 person? War should be rationally and honestly protested. Here's some stats. http://icasualties.org/oef/ Any response on the question? ...what is the difference, in your opinion, between the Progressives, and Marxist/Stalinists/Maoists? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Difference between Fascists and Communists? Who they kill, and how the justify it; neither of them is a fan of freedom. | ||
| Whatever |
One for each American casualty... and one Wisconsin flag for each from Wisconsin... not sure what statitics they used... maybe I will give your question some thought tomorrow... time to go night night... | ||
| Reindog |
The Reindog compound is currently under massive assault by the TrickOrTreaters. AirCav is dropping in emergency beer resupply to defend against the little blighters. Lighton just phoned in from the 138 and the Willow Springs track weekend is officially ended. Mostly good times but a few track rashes and one case of a thrown rod have been reported. All Buellers are returning to the carrier. Sunday Night Football and the World Series is on. Life is good. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"None of you have any clue what I went through as a child..." Nor do you have any idea what many of us have gone through as children or as adults. For whatever reason (pun intended) this commercial comes to mind. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JhlWddAXSRA G | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm pretty sure that Whatever & I both like clean air & water, freedom to chose our our life paths, and a dislike for authoritarian regimes that impose undue hardship on the people for the enrichment and power of an elite few. I'm guessing. Our differences, however, I'm not sure of. It may be as simple as a question of personalities involved. I, for example might find a certain political jerk evil and mean, while Char does not. Vice versa. That's not really what I'm curious about. It's the underlying assumptions and freedoms found dear, as well as the understanding of the historical results of different ideologies in preserving our freedoms, or taking them away. I'm very negative about marxist governments, and can point to the millions murdered by them as a reason not to desire them. I have far less problem with libertarian oriented governments, though I admit that as a party in the U.S., they tend to the unrealistic. That's why I ask. Current trends in public opinion show my preference of firing all the politicians, and starting with a new batch, quite popular. I'd send the old batch somewhere comfortable and safe, where they can't rip me off anymore, like Cuban Prison. But I'm cynical. ( and I'd support the bond bill to pay Castro to keep them for us ) That opinion, by the way, is non partisan. I'd also like every penny in both parties coffers applied to the national debt., and the parties dissolved, the names not to be reused for one century. I'm also in favor of voice stress lie detectors used on all news programs showing politicians speaking, with a nice meter of B.S. displayed above their heads like the 1st down line is shown for football games. I think politicians of both major parties would rather shoot me than do any of the above, too. I'm not guessing on that one. | ||
| Aesquire |
Just as some on the "right" are less than certain about the difference between a Soviet communist and an American Progressive, ( which discussion awaits tomorrow ) the "left" are confused about the difference between a conservative and a libertarian. To clarify, here is a comment by Jerry Pournelle. American political conservatism has a very strong libertarian streak, particularly as regards the federal government. We are inclined to give a great deal more power to state and local government than would libertarians on the theory that this is consent of the governed. And we have more tendency to look to the Common Law and its derivatives, something libertarians don't look at often. Maximizing liberty isn't a matter of abolishing laws as the anarchists would have it: that generally leads to disorder. Government isn't just a necessary evil, it is a positive good; but as Franklin said, it is also a dangerous friend and a fearful master. The Revolution wasn't about "the rights of man" but "the rights of free Englishmen"; a somewhat different thing. What we have in Washington today is not conservative in any sense that I understand the word. I don't think of imperialism as conservative. My views are much closer to those of Adams and Madison: "Federalists" but unlike Hamilton they had no desire to abolish the states, but rather a tendency to see them as bulwarks of liberty by distributing power. Breaking power into chunks promotes liberty. Power can never be abolished and this is the failure of libertarians. Because they are self-governing and mostly see other people that way, libertarians think government far less necessary than it is; and of course in the hands of people like David Friedman all kinds of mechanisms for harnessing voluntary action to build free societies can be devised. David is an old friend and I enjoy speaking with him, and I wouldn't at all mind living on an island with you and him and people who think as you and he do under the kind of government you want; but I don't live on such an island. My difference with the libertarians is that history teaches me that there are things which are the natural province of government. One of those is control of appetites: whether it is religious truth or metaphor, Man is fallen, and seeks to become the arbiter of what is good and what is evil: and they will choose according to their appetites rather than their wisdom if not restrained. "To secure these rights" governments are instituted among men. Governments then expand to fill the area you will let them have; and the only remedy I know is to break that power structure into chunks and give each chunk power within a limited district. That way people can choose the form of abuse they want to endure. It probably comes as no surprise to you that some people really want to run other people's lives for them. The trick is to harness those busybodies into doing something good like being the public dog catcher, before they induce a lot of followers to put them in more powerful places. Security of life and property are taken for granted by most of us; some who have traveled to other lands know just how rare that ordered liberty can be and how difficult it is to attain. The rule of law in American didn't spring from the swollen brains of the Framers: they inherited the common law and it was up to them to implement a system that would keep it. They did that extraordinarily well, although some regretted that there was no element of monarchy and hereditary aristocracy to give an interest in preserving the new structure to some who might have the power to do it. And of course over the years the people threw away most of the republic that was built in 1787. So it goes. Incidentally, I am frequently asked for examples of democracies failing when the people discover they can vote themselves largess from the public treasury. California this week had a poll: 60% would rather "raise taxes" than "cut services"; but if you look in detail, they would rather raise taxes they don't pay, and not cut services they receive: this is known as voting oneself largess from the public treasury. It's politics as usual except that California is bankrupt, businesses are leaving, and raising taxes on "the rich" will simply send more people who have anything at all to lose out to Nevada or Arizona or Texas. Ah well. But again let me say: on national policy the libertarian and conservative views are often indistinguishable: leave the matters to the states and get the feds out of it. Abortion, education, and a great many other matters would be far better done by the states although you and I would probably disagree as to which way was "better" in some issues. But we would both be more likely to live under laws to our liking. Jan 19th 2004 and today. But it is well to be aware that libertarians and conservatives are allies, not equivalents. After next Tuesday this will become both apparent and important. "Right" is a place I'm amused to be considered, since I can argue & annoy conservatives with nearly the ease I do lefties. Righties usually go to disgust and simplified arguments while the leftists tend to go to personal attacks and earnest sidetracking in an effort to win the argument at any cost. ( being correct on the color of a Shuttle tile doesn't mean your view of Space policy is correct ) Both Righties and Lefties think I'm in the other camp, on different subjects. I think that's true of many of us. If you think about it. | ||
| Charlie_zulu |
Current trends in public opinion show my preference of firing all the politicians, and starting with a new batch, quite popular. I'd send the old batch somewhere comfortable and safe, where they can't rip me off anymore, like Cuban Prison. But I'm cynical. ( and I'd support the bond bill to pay Castro to keep them for us ) +1 | ||
| Whisperstealth |
I like that Jerry Pournelle. I certainly learn towards the Libertarian view, but agree on his idea of local government. I absolutely believe Reb/Dems have failed, and new leaders are necessary. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I heard Sara Palin is taking speech lessons, to overcome the hillbilly-like screech in her voice. | ||
| Sifo |
I'd also like every penny in both parties coffers applied to the national debt. Just asking if you might want to rethink that statement. It doesn't seem to fit most of your political arguments. Cash donations are considered to be political speech protected by the first amendment. Confiscation of those funds by the government would be a terrible infringement on the first amendment rights of those that donated the money. I have far less problem with libertarian oriented governments, though I admit that as a party in the U.S., they tend to the unrealistic. I'm not trying to challenge your opinion on this but do you know of any real world examples of libertarian governments? I would love to see the libertarians become a viable political party in the US, but agree that it's not very realistic. I think the video was making fun of Tea Baggers. I posted it because I thought it was really funny. Is a Tea Bagger the same thing as a conservative? They seem a lot closer to the lunatic fringe to me than a 'conservative'. The Tea Party is conservative. Republicans not as much. They believe in limited government as defined by the constitution and the lower taxation that should naturally follow. Could you explain how you see that as being lunatic fringe? So as long as you brought it up Char, are you completely anti-war? I have little doubt that you would say you were against the Iraq war, but what about Afghanistan? What about our entrance into WWII? WWII European theater? | ||
| Court |
>>>>I heard Sara Palin is taking speech lessons, to overcome the hillbilly-like screech in her voice. Certainly would not be unusual for her to do so . . many, including Harley-Davidson and my firm, companies send executives who make frequent appearances to "school" to work with accents, diction, rate and delivery. Gov. Palin, regardless of which side of the political equation you wander about on, is one of the most visible, well known and in-demand faces of pop culture at the moment. Regardless of her talents or aspirations as a politician she draws HUGE crowds, larger than the President at the moment, and commands 7 figure advances on book deals. To quote of my favorite writers . . ME . . . when I was one given a load of crap for spending so much time in school . . "if you can't say it or write it . . it doesn't matter how smart you are". That's the delivery part. For content . . . I'd quote my oldest son . . Your mind is like a magician's hat . . you can't pull anything out of it that's not been previously put in". Palin . . be mindful . . will earn more in speaking fees giving her opinion tomorrow than I will in the next 2 years. |
