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Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 04:21 pm: | 
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Am I the only one who has not forgotten what it was like to be a kid around some grown up who had a motorcycle? When I was a kid I wanted to ride with who ever it might be who had a bike be it my grand father, dad, uncles, family friends, or cousins. That little girl probably was enjoying her self by getting to ride with her mom. |
Reindog
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 05:09 pm: |
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Firebolt and Fresno:
That is your opinion, not fact. |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 05:15 pm: |
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Koz, here's my thoughts (not that naybody cares). You saw a child that you thought was in danger, you tried to warn the parent, that didn't work so you called the LEO. Did it help, maybe maybe not..we don't know. Could you have aproached it better? Maybe, but you probably didn't have as much time to think as us making posts here do.
Bottom line, right or wrong, you tried to help a child, for that Thumbs up.
Maybe next time try to be a little more suble. For instance "I noticed your little girls helmet is a little big, I might be able to help you get a smaller one that fits. Oh, BTW it's not really a good idea to ride her on the bike if she can't touch the pegs, can I help you modify them?" but who am I kidding I would've done the same, or nothing..not sure. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 05:28 pm: |
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Wow... a few key words and watch all the libs come right out of the woodwork.
Anybody who thinks my words are threatening is reading into it what they WANT to see. You strive for confrontation, yearn for conflict. Picking apart small portions of the overall message, out of context, in order to advance your agenda.
If there is any one person on this board who has put himself out there, good and bad, for all to see, it's me.
I'm not perfect. Far from it. Yes, I have a slightly biased view of law enforcement. I don't hide that. Ever. Which of you has seen it from the business end as I have? If you had, would you admit it? I seriously doubt it. You see, I have put things like shame and pride behind me. Jesus Christ is my savior and I obey the laws of God the Father.
Make no mistake, I was born into sin, and within it I shall live the rest of my days as I struggle to rise above it. I'm a long way from the top, and I've gotten my hands plenty dirty whilst climbing this mountain. I'll do it again. I'll be forgiven.
My most basic tenet in life is this: Judge no other man.
Nobody was helped by calling the police in this situation. If you think differently, then it's my opinion that you're delusional at best, and maniacal at worst.
Can't handle it? Kick rocks till your toes bleed. I won't judge you for leaving a bloody trail on my pathway. Just don't try to block me. |
Fresnobuell
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 06:04 pm: |
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That is your opinion, not fact.
Damn straight. PS--Not following the law is what founded this great country of ours. Not all laws are worth following. |
Pammy
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 06:53 pm: |
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Koz, I would have done the same thing. I will and have also called the law on folks who leave their animals or children in the car.
I once filled the floorboard of a Honda civic full of ice. The guy left the window opened enough for me to get my arm in. I initially called the police to see just what kind of trouble I would be in for reaching in and unlocking the door to extract the puppy that was clearly on its' way to a heat stroke. Little fellow could no longer bark nor lift his head. So I filled the floor board with all the ice I could gather. I figured a vandalism charge would be better than a B&E. Judgment call on my part. Man and woman with 2 small children (I observed not even 1 car seat in the car)came out with what looked like at least an hours(conservative observation) worth of shopping heaped in a buggy. I gave the cops a description and tag number in case the guy left before they got there.
Should I have minded my own business? Not in my opinion. Sometimes you just gotta do what you think is right. |
2008xb12scg
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:12 pm: |
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Kick rocks till your toes bleed. I won't judge you for leaving a bloody trail on my pathway. Just don't try to block me.
great line, it will be stolen and used.. |
Budgolf
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:15 pm: |
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The "in danger" and help the helpless arguments are quite often carried to the extreme. Of course, so is the mind your own business argument.
The real danger though is the road it leads all of us down. These same arguments are used to take children away from their families in Germany because they are home schooled. These arguments are the reason why Happy Meals will soon be illegal in San Fransisco. Every where you look in this country, regardless of the issue someone knows better than you how to run your life. Someone knows better than you how to raise your children. They know how your yard should be mowed and what kind of car you should drive, and what you can eat. And people think it's all ok because it's the law. The law once said it was ok to burn people at the stake because they were thought to be witches. The law once said slavery was not only permissible, but beneficial to the enslaved. Oral sex is still on the books as illegal here in North Carolina, and you can got to jail for killing a whale in Oklahoma. Remember, we have a lot of idiots at all levels of government writing these wonderful laws for us. And right now, the are encroaching on your ability to modify your bike, your health insurance company can deny your treatment if you are injured while riding (source of injury benefits)and if you look at all of the threats against us, many wonder if motorcycling itself isn't endangered.
I'm just a Soldier. I'm not smart enough to belittle people with big 10 dollar words, and I won't call any one names. I just wish everyone would mind their own business.
And by the way, in America, the only people that as a rule trust the police, are white. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:27 pm: |
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great line, it will be stolen and used..
Absolutely no charge. Claim them as your own, they're just words, friend. They come to me just as freely as I give them away. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:31 pm: |
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I'd like to point out that on this issue, Reindog and I have differing viewpoints.
This is generally not the case, but this time we don't seem to agree.
You won't hear Tom accusing Matt of threatening anybody, because Tom is intelligent enough to understand what I've said. Likewise you won't hear Matt telling Tom to kick rocks, because Matt hasn't been personally attacked by Tom for expressing his opinion.
Tom and I respect each other's opinions, because we state them clearly and put thought into the words we use to express them.
Knee-jerk reactions are for jerks. With knees. Or something like that. |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:32 pm: |
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hey I am white and I still don't trust them. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:34 pm: |
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I also don't trust them and I am as white as white can be. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:40 pm: |
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I believe that at the heart of the argument on both sides is legalism.
Absolute freedom can't and doesn't exist. There are consequences for your actions including prison time if you accidentally kill your 3 year old daughter.
Absolute "nannyism" also can't and shouldn't exist. People must bee free to make mistakes, even horrible mistakes, in order to be free.
You cannot pass enough laws to make people responsible, or happy, or healthy, or good parents.
Conversely a minimum level of laws are necessary to create a viable society.
The interference by the police is minor. There was a ticket. The child wasn't removed from the home. In the long run, right or wrong, it was minor. |
Whisperstealth
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 07:42 pm: |
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Really? To all the people who have never experienced our wonderful legal system from the business end: I hope that one day you have an experience that opens your eyes to reality.
Pwnsor, and there it really is.
I have not had to spent a year in prison, but Sac Co isn't a lot of fun either. Those that have not seen the inside of a cell, spent time on a yard, or dealt with an a-hole CO, do not see things from the same perspective you and I might/do.
I agree with Pwnsor in another respect: If you would call the cops on your own family over something like this, I would rather you not be around me. - Not that it is likely to happen anyway, and I am sure the feeling is mutual. I find the whole, "my kids are great, and would never do that..", line of thinking so amusing. It's down right hilarious when they do, and the parent is sitting there with egg running down there face! But I'm a callous, sef-centered, SOB, so go figure. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 12, 2010 - 09:18 pm: |
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Now we are starting to see some reasonable discourse.
The problem I see at the root of the original action, the calling of the police over the perceived safety violation is this:
The police have the ultimate discretion on the scene of any incident. You could get a hardass cop who decides to call in Child Protective Services and they could deem you an unfit parent on the spot for child endangerment. That's an entirely different ball of string which takes an eternity to unravel, while the child sits in a foster home with a bunch of delinquents.
People need to be able to talk to each other, give advice and possibly take the occasional beating when somebody reacts badly to your "advice".
Action, reaction. Circumstances and consequences. Everybody has to deal with these things. When others are called in to mitigate them, their effect is reduced, and our ability as individuals to properly deal with them is diminished.
Gabriel, I've been in four different county jails, and I can honestly say that they are actually worse than a prison yard. I don't envy your experience there, but I know it well. On a prison yard, there is a clear cut hierarchy, a pecking order that is well established. In the county, you get all the young punks coming in and out the revolving door, trying to prove themselves. It gets everybody in a wreck more often than not. At Wasco, the classification yard is similar, but it's only temporary.
For anybody that wants to see what it's really like, on a Supermax or maximum security yard, starting from the county and working your way up the chain to the SHU, I suggest watching the movie Felon. It's startlingly real, and while I've never been to the SHU, I have been on a Supermax yard. A civilian has no idea how things can snowball incredibly quickly and an innocent man's life completely turned to shit over night.
This movie is absolutely accurate to the finest detail, except for one thing: SHU cells are one man only. In the movie, they're two-man like a Supermax facility.
Back on topic. Koz was right in doing what he did, UP UNTIL he called the cops, in my OPINION. What he may not realize is that, as I mentioned before, a hard ass cop could elevate the situation out of anybody's control and cost that family a child. |
Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 01:41 am: |
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meh, that is how I got the love of riding, except it was my g'pa and his old gold wing. I was five, my feet never saw a peg, I did have the right sized helmet, and you couldnt pry me off of that bike,... unless it was to eat pizza and drink rootbeer.
I think we have all forgotten what it is like to be a kid. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 08:23 am: |
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When I was 6, my brother and I took off into the hills above Lake Elsinore, California on my dad's Honda Elsinore 175. My brother, being 8 years older than me, was a bit reckless with the throttle, but I held on for dear life and had a great time...
...up until we hit one particularly nasty bump and I flew off the back... at least my lower half did, and I landed on my left inner thigh on top of the brake light housing... creating a nice gash that ran 5 inches up to the back of my scrotum and tore a flap of skin out of that as well.
Screaming, hollering, writhing on the ground ensued. My brother picked me up, sat me in front of him on the seat and we rode the 2 miles or so over rough terrain back to our undeveloped plot of land, and my parents took me another half mile down the hill to a friend of my dad's who lived in a trailer there... who happened to be a nurse.
All the while, I'm bleeding like a stuck pig. Long story short, I got cleaned up and stitched and superglued and bandaged. It was a few weeks before I got back on the bike, but it was just one of those things where a kid gets injured, everybody learns from it and you move on.
Cityx, I haven't forgotten the pain I felt that day, and I certainly don't think my parents were bad or negligent for letting us go traipsing off on the dirtbike like that. I definitely haven't forgotten what it's like to be a kid. I try to live as one for at least a portion of each day. My own two boys are grown now, and my girlfriend's kids are my new source of fun. Her 18 year old son, 14 year old and 7 year old daughters are my new greatest joy.
We can't shield everyone from themselves. It's not MY job to stop YOU from making decisions, good OR bad. Just like it was nobody's business to be calling the cops and feeding the citation machine for NO GOOD REASON other than their own delirious view of right and wrong, or safe and unsafe. |
Firebolt020283
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 09:18 am: |
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meh, that is how I got the love of riding, except it was my g'pa and his old gold wing. I was five, my feet never saw a peg, I did have the right sized helmet, and you couldnt pry me off of that bike,... unless it was to eat pizza and drink rootbeer.
I think we have all forgotten what it is like to be a kid.
That is exactly my point in this whole thing. I am glad some one else feels the same way. Every time I am around my little cousins with my bike that is the first thing they want is for me to give them a ride and when the are not riding they are drooling at the site of it (not literally). I was the same way as a kid only difference was I had more people than one who had a bike that I was around. } |
Rah7777777
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 11:24 pm: |
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Other than an over sized helmet and a better jacket, gloves, I see nothing wrong.
Look at the pic, that kid isn't going anywhere just because his/her feet aren't on the pegs. She's hanging on pretty good.
I'm 100% with you though on talking to the mom since you felt it was wrong though!! That I think was a great thing to do!!
Calling the cops..... Mmm over the top in my eyes.
I don't have kids yet, but my guess is they won't be on the bike much. And if they are it'll be short rides in no traffic.
But, we don't know the back story.....
Funny thing with life Is you never know what's gonna happen! You might have saved her life or just ruined that little girls fun ride to the store with mom... |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 13, 2010 - 11:28 pm: |
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Cityxslicker
| | Posted on Thursday, October 14, 2010 - 12:54 pm: |
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When I was 9 My G'pa got me a XR75 with a headlight kit on it, and the plate from an old trailer (long since expired, but still a plate  ) I ran that bike all summer long. I would spend all day mowing lawns for gas money, and ride all nite. I did have to be home by 10, and tell him what direction I was headed.
Illegal ? in so many ways.
Would I have traded those memories for anything; nope. Could I have done it today ? Not with the nanny nazis, hell you cant even get a toy with a happy meal anymore (san fran) |
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