| Author | Message | ||
     Xl1200r |
It excelled at nothing in particular but I really enjoyed riding it. +1000 A Sportster, in the right state of mind, is more than the sum of its parts. If you go in expecting it to perform like a Ducati you'll be disappointed. But go in just going for a ride and they can be really nice. | ||
| Court |
It did . . . due to rider position . . have incredible balance and I won many "slow races" (an event HD specializes in) on the XLCR. HD was a leader in the "slow race" category but seeking to expand their expertise . . went on to Daytona where they introduced (on film) the "Slow Pit Stop". Scott Russell had a great vantage point and a clear view of the show they put on until the shattering pieces of his thrown helmet marred the view. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
67 Sportster.....the way I liked it....  | ||
| Ezblast |
The Spondon Bike bike would be a better start -   EZ | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Sportsters need to go on a diet ever since they went rubber-mounted. If they were light and nimble, it wouldn't matter so much that they don't have the power. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
To me, the XB is what a Sportster would have progressed into naturally had it's development not been stunted by being hit in the head by the "heritage genetics" hammer. HD made a conscious effort not to progress further with regard to development and instead opted to refine within a narrow corridor. Wonder what this might have grown into had HD not snuffed out the development:  | ||
| Xl1200r |
To me, the XB is what a Sportster would have progressed into naturally had it's development not been stunted by being hit in the head by the "heritage genetics" hammer. In a way I agree and in a way I don't. Remember that when the Sportster came out, and for a good decade plus after, it was the fastest thing on two wheels. It was, for the most part, as technologically advanced as anything else out there. Remember that side-valve engines were still around at this time to a certain degree. Evolution would have had to have started by the early 70's to keep in competitive with the Honda 750 four (I think that came out in '69?). It could have stayed a v-twin, but something more the VR1000 or 1125R is where it would have ended up if things weren't halted. | ||
| Rainman |
To me, the XB is what a Sportster would have progressed into naturally had it's development not been stunted .. That's what I said when I rode my first Buell in 1995. Been dreaming of one since. The Blast is close. Maybe by the time I have money for a new bike Buell will be back on the road. | ||
| Sifo |
To me, the XB is what a Sportster would have progressed into naturally had it's development not been stunted by being hit in the head by the "heritage genetics" hammer. I agree to a point. The VR1000, XLCR, V-Rod, XR1200 are all glimpses that once in a while HD is willing to push things forward. Somehow these things are never accepted coming from HD. I don't really know if the problem is in the corporate leadership, dealers, advertising campaigns, or customer base. To be fair it's probably a mix of all of them. I do see HD being at a crossroads where they have to make a conscious decision to either continue on the same path and become a shadow of the company they once were, or turn a new direction where they can regain market share. I saw something interesting this morning. I drive by a parking lot where every day there is a Road King parked way out by the street every day that weather is at all reasonable. I've been seeing it there for years. Today there was a shiny new Triumph Rocket III parked right there. One more sale that HD has lost for whatever reason. I'm guessing that this owner was the core market share that HD has been desperately trying to keep too. | ||
| Rainman |
I loved my souped-up little 1200 which looked like a Nightster back in 1989, but the S3 I rode blew it away. Now I want something like an XB-12XT for the highway to go with the Blast. I'd buy H-D if they have what I want, but H-D doesn't have a sport touring bike. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
You know I think that in all of H-D's trying to keep its heritage it completely lost it. If you look back at the 50's, 60's, 70's and maybe a small glimpse of the early 80's Harley had bikes in different racing series that were competitive. Then at some point in the 80's they decided with the exception of dirttrack (which is bikes form 70's and early 80's then after that they are kit bikes) Harley seems to have decided to abandon all aspects of trying to have any notion of high performance bikes. Then in the early 90's they tried for a brief moment but failed miserably because they developed the bike and did so poorly and did not expand on it afterwards nor did they try to make it a real deal street bike (the few "street legal" ones don't count). From there they decided to take what could have had a lot of potential and turned it into another cruiser. My question is what happened in the 80's that made them decide to not continue to race or build potential race bikes or bikes with performance enough to be race bikes? (Message edited by firebolt020283 on September 28, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The VR isn't what I was talking about so much as just an example where the company exited a market for good and halted a developmental process in lieu of "heritage". There is no reason HD couldn't have become what Ducati is today with regard to performance excellence. HD chose not to. I agree the Sportster was THE sport bike of it's time. HD hit it in the head and made it a retarded shell of its former self. At some point in time the Sportster was determined to be marketed to buyers seeking something other than performance. Part of that decision was the determination to abandon water cooling. As performance increased with water cooling, HD was left behind in the performance department. In fact, HD worked to create a buyer who eschewed advancement. (See acceptance or lack thereof of the V-Rod). "That's not a "REAL" Harley!" What HD has forgotten is that "younger buyers" seek performance. There is virtually nothing in the HD line-up that delivers performance. The V-ROD is as good as an M-109, but what GSXR buyer is opting for the M-109 instead of a performance motorcycle. Younger buyers seek the thrill of the ride rather than the thrill of the buffet. You can see this in the differences between a sportbike ride and a cruiser ride. This is best evidenced by the time spent not riding vs. riding. In an 8 your day of sport riding, we will probably spend 2-2.5 hours NOT riding and cover 400 miles door to door. In a cruiser run of 8 hours, the group will spend 50% or less of that time actually riding and cover 100-150 miles. Younger riders are not seeking to sit around and jawbone, talk about the kids, rub your bunions, talk about home mortgages, etc. HD can't seem to figure this out. The XB to me is the equivalent of the best non-water cooled bikes the competitors offer (Ducati, Triumph, Honda, Suzuki, etc.). The 1125 was equivalent to the best water cooled bikes the competitors offer. HD chose to leave that path long ago. | ||
| Rasta_dog |
Cool picture! An actual sport bike Sportster? Oh what might have been at HD. If Juneau Ave. wasn't All In with Buell they should have been. It wasn't too late to develop the Sportster/XB then and it's not too late now. It's been happening and I think it's still happening before my eyes. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I keep saying this: Jam that heavy,powerful Vrod lump in a sportster or even an FXR-like chassis and it would be a winner. Those forward pegs make me not even want to sit on it in a showroom. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Something with the V-Rod motor in the spirit of the Wakan would be fantastic. They'd need to figure out where to put the radiator. | ||
| Sifo |
the thrill of the buffet  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
FT_B wrote; "In an 8 your day of sport riding, we will probably spend 2-2.5 hours NOT riding and cover 400 miles door to door. In a cruiser run of 8 hours, the group will spend 50% or less of that time actually riding and cover 100-150 miles." Sportbike or cruiser, I will generally put in the same amount of miles in an 8 hour ride (some where in the 300 mile + range)! | ||
| Sifo |
Sportbike or cruiser, I will generally put in the same amount of miles in an 8 hour ride (some where in the 300 mile + range)! Same here, but I found I didn't fit well with many cruiser riders when I had my Wide Glide. I didn't drink, and took corners way faster than the others. Biker bars get tiresome when your not drinking. Honestly, I'm not sure they're any better when you are drinking. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
I don't know I think if I was riding on a big cushy seat and a relaxed seating position I would think I would ride farther than on a machine that was set up to be ridden like a race bike. But then again that is just me and I have never owned one of those cushy cruiser bikes so at the end of those 8 hour days I am hating life the next morning. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My point wasn't the capability to put miles on the bike but rather the tendency, in a group setting, for the rides to be much more about the ride with a sporting group. My bet, Paint, is that your ability to put miles on in a group would be severely limited with the average, older HD rider/owner. I've seen dozens of trips leave out from the store. When I ask how many miles the ride was, I'm astounded how few for the time alloted. Don't hear about many poker runs with younger folks. Nothing wrong with them, but older riders want different things from the ride. The main draw simply isn't as much about the miles as it is about the socializing. I hope do quite a bit of socializing at BTF, but I also hope to get in a significant amount of riding as well. Why waste all that heavenly road sitting on my butt in a rocker. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
In the early 80's Harley-Davidson was about eight seconds from going bankrupt. A core group of executives took a chance, bought back their company from AMF, and turned what was a truly horrible motorcycle into a quarter-century of record-breaking financial reports. How? Mostly by making motorcycles that were truly worth buying again, yet somehow not losing their "heritage" in the process. And, I'd argue, if the economy hadn't tanked, their sales figures would still likely be the envy of any company in the world. Harley's sales aren't down because they suddenly stopped building great motorcycles, and/or people have suddenly stopped wanting one. Just thought I'd toss a little dose of reality into the mix. Sure hope Anon doesn't see this... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Older HD riders also tend to ride two up more than sport riders. This doubles the chat time, opinions, food orders, bathroom breaks, etc. Again, nothing wrong, but it does show some of the differences between the two. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Jeremy: BTW, I've just passed the 48,500 mark on the Road King. It's an '06. I work from home, so zero of those miles are commute miles. Doesn't prove anything, except that stereotypes suck.  Take care. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You are the exception. You forget, I worked in an HD dealership. Sometimes, sterotypes are based upon reality. High mileage bikes were the exception rather than the rule. Take care. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Nope, didn't forget you work (worked?) at Bumpus. Ever met a low-mile Buell rider? If so, what does that do to the stereotype? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Yep. We get some of those as well. The comment wasn't about mileage or who's the better rider. If you took that from my comments, you missed the main meaning. Younger riders and older riders seek different things from riding, from bikes. The main experience HD provides caters best to their market. That market tends to be older riders. No shame in that. The folks who were the "regulars" at the dealership are some of the best, salt of the earth people you'd EVER want to know. That lifestyle experience that is the hallmark of HD simply isn't attractive to younger buyers. The bikes, not performance oriented in a sporting sense, are simply not attractive to younger buyers (trust me, I talked every weekend to the HD buyer). I'm not bagging on HD, the bikes, the quality, the performance, etc. After working there for over a year, I am more impressed with the quality and workmanship of the bikes than I ever was before. PS, we did take a 12R in on trade with 109 miles as well as a Hypermotard with 682 miles. My 06 Uly had 24,000 miles in 21 months. I work out of the house so zero of those were commuting miles.  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
When I was on my 90 Springer Softail I rode with a group of "older guys". We generally put on at least 300 miles on our Saturday ride. Sometimes we did overnighters and a few of the rides started on Fri and ended on Sun. I'll quickly depart from a group that doesn't want to ride. Don't get me wrong. Hanging out is fun, but best done at night after the riding is done!!  (Message edited by Paint shaker on September 28, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Agreed. I stopped riding with a "sport" riding group because the gab to riding ratio was too high. | ||
| Swampy |
It is kind of ironic that any advancements that H-D(spit) make, such as the Vrod, it is not accepted by their core market that they are trying so desperately to hold onto. The easy answer is to have two different motorcycle companies, one heading off to the past and slowly shrinking in market share, and another heading into the future. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
That lifestyle experience that is the hallmark of HD simply isn't attractive to younger buyers. I might modify that to read many younger buyers, but I readily see the point you're making, and don't much disagree. Doesn't make their bikes junk, however, which I know is not a point you've been trying to make. But others have, and my words are more directed at them than at you. Guess I like talking to you better, though.... |
