| Author | Message | ||
     Reindog |
Anytime a President says something, there will always be some who are for and some against. There was nothing to gain and everything to lose by staking out his position. He should have yust kept his japper shut, especially after he publicly stated that he would not comment due to it being a local matter. Obama yust isn't that smart when he isn't "community organizing". I thought he would be more politically savvy, but he isn't and that is leading to his downfall. The more he spins, the dizzier he gets. I guess it is time for him to take yet another vacation. What say you, Tinglers? | ||
| Reindog |
m2me: Gibbs is the spokesman for Obama. He doesn't spew without the approval of his boss. You often come across as a spinner yust for the sake of spinning. gohot: The nation is spelled Israel and it is a blessed country. | ||
| M2me |
I thought he would be more politically savvy, but he isn't and that is leading to his downfall. The more he spins, the dizzier he gets. I guess it is time for him to take yet another vacation. What say you, Tinglers?
President Obama jumps into the middle of the 'Ground Zero mosque' debate Obama was trying to do what is right. He was trying to put a damper on the xenophobia that is being stoked 24/7 by the "liberal media". It might not be the politically savvy thing to do, but it's the right thing to do. Basing our country on a foundation of fear and hatred, as the "liberal media" wants, is not right and will ultimately destroy this country. I respect Obama for recognizing this, no matter how low his poll numbers might go. | ||
| Reindog |
We are finally in agreement: Obama is likely to be a one-term President. Perhaps sad for you. Unbounded joy for me. We are not in agreement at all: America is a xenophobic country. We are the MOST hospitable country in the history of countries. There is no more giving nation, bar none. Your viewpoints border on the despicable, John, although you think you mean well. | ||
| Steveford |
One of my cousins was working on the 101st floor of the 2nd Tower during the day of the attacks. His name was Kenny and he was at war with no one. He was simply going about his business to provide for his family. He was vaporized and he left behind a wife and two small children who probably won't even remember their father as they were too little at the time. This is not a freedom of religion issue. This is a calculated insult. | ||
| Oldog |
This is not a freedom of religion issue. This is a calculated insult. I agree that this is possible. I would not have approved the mosque / muslim center at WTC (Obama is a breath of fresh air compared to GWB?) I agree to disagree, I have no use for Obama none, Mccain if younger would have been my choice, Palin has gone from interesting and a possible choice to a disappointment, I hope that the GOP gets their poop in a group cause sarah aint gettin my vote Huckabee? Romney? Bush for all of his faults was not so blatent about the flipflop, Obama is allabout getting ellected re-ellected and placating every one, the french tried it with germany in ww2 did it work? } | ||
| M2me |
The question of whether there is a right to build the mosque near the Hallowed ground of the WTC is not the issue. The point is that it is unwise. Oh, I get it now. The question was not whether Rosa Parks had a right to sit on the bus, the point was that it was unwise for her to sit near the Whites Only section. What was a wise placement of the Coloreds Only sign? How "near" or "far" from the front of the bus was a wise placement? You're venturing onto a slippery slope. You're saying, "Yes, we have freedom of religion, but it would be unwise for this particular religion to build so near hallowed ground. This particular religion is bad and we've got keep them away from hallowed ground." But who is going to decide what is "near"? Should it be two blocks? Four blocks? Four thousand miles? Is it wise for us to give power to a Decider in Chief who not only decides good religions from bad, but also decides how near or far religious groups can build from "hallowed ground"? And does the Decider in Chief decide what is hallowed ground? We either have freedom of religion or we don't. Rosa Parks either had a right to sit in her seat on the bus or she didn't. We need to think very carefully before we start parsing our Constitutional rights into vague terms like "near" and "far". | ||
| Doug_s |
oldog you are right dubyah was not a flip-flopper - he was dead wrong and he stuck to it. but, barack is not at all about getting re-elected. he himself said he'd rather be a one-term president that got something accomplished than be a two-termer that didn't do much because he was worried about getting re-elected. barack is taking it from both sides - the neocons think he's a muslim socialist; the progressives think he's sold out his left wing ideas and is too conservative. i am not really sure what the french trying to placate germany before/during wwll has to do with it. regarding whether or not building a mosque near the original wtc tower site is wise or not, the constitution says nothing about not being able to do dumb stuff. a lot of stuff done is unwise, depending on who's opinion you ask. i think all the squawking about the mosque is far dumber than building the damned thing. of course, that's my opinion - i think all "houses of worship" are dumb. religion should be a personal spiritual thing, imo, and organized religion is inherently exclusionary, prejuducial, confrontational, and evil. imo. ymmv, doug s. | ||
| Cowboy |
I am sick of the whole damn mess. As a White-Southern-Christian- Republican. I dont want the damn thing built there till Saudia Arabia builds a Christan church in Mecca. After that GO A HEAD. | ||
| Reindog |
Cowboy: I understand your frustration but there is no point equating the behavior of a closed society with an open society. m2me: Equating the mosque with Rosa Parks? It took you an entire week to come up with a ludicrous analogy? Your audience is finally understanding that you are simply trolling for the sake of trolling. Nice try but you are shouting beyond Reason and are ignoring the reasons why building the mosque near the WTC is not the smartest idea if the goal is to "foster understanding". In my best Monty Python voice: "Stop being silly!" Doug_s: [crickets chirping] | ||
| Oldog |
i think all "houses of worship" are dumb. religion should be a personal spiritual thing, imo, and organized religion is inherently exclusionary, prejuducial, confrontational, and evil. imo. I dont agree with that, There are politics in every group, there are folks who think that "their idea" is the best, churches are no exception, ( or mosques ) the government is a mega-casam of this, in any event, George W has been portrayed as a bit of a dumb-ass by Oliver stone. I believe that he tried to do his best, and that unlike Mr Obama, W tried to carry the office in dignity, not kowtowing to other world leaders, you can be gracious and reasonable with out being a door mat. Its obvious to me that the current crop in Washington, FAILED history and economics in particularly as it relates to the great depression and the communist countries to the east, the Chinese have succeeded because they are smart enough to understand that the communist system will fail with out the motivation of self betterment ( capitalism ) Mr Obama fails to understand that We can't buy allies,(friends), That his conciliatory attitude is precieved as weak by places like IRAN and N KOREA, Even Mr Clinton understood it when he went to get the 2 reporters from N Korea it was evident in the look on his face when he got off of the plane I knew that he (obama) was not fit to be president when he was debating Hillary, and came up with the idea ( and said it out loud ) about fine-ing parents who did not insure their children, I have been in that place where it was all I could do to pay my bills I was able to insure my step kids just barely, I have to ask If I could not have, and not been able to afford it just where would the money come from to pay the fine? Mr Obama made inappropriate comments about the mosque in NY its typical of his bad judgment. It did not merrit presidential attention or comment, The comments on the gulf oil spill, the threats and posturing its as obivous as the nose on my face he is not fit to be president. It took them weeks to waive the whatzitis law to allow the clean up vessel from Holland to participate? or the beach that was covered with clean sand to hide the spill, for his visit, It is frightening to think that he is incharge of the nuclear arsenal.. I need to go but, organized religion is a fundamental right, up to the point you are hurting others or making trouble, the NYC center is Inappropriate as the violence was perpetrated by moslems. the People who died in the towers were the victims perhaps their families should decide .. | ||
| Reindog |
In comparison to Obama and the 2006+ Congress, GWB is looking betterer and betterer. The Obama administration is so bad, that I find myself rueing what had been impossible: Too Bad Hillary Didn't Win. Metaphorically, Obama said all I ever needed to know when he removed the bust of Winston Churchill from the White House and returned it to England. | ||
| M2me |
Religious tolerance is the very foundation of the United States. Do not mess with it! It might be a good idea to turn off Fox News for 30 minutes or so and spend the time learning more about Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf and Sufi Muslims. Did you know that he has been Imam of a mosque that is located 12 blocks from the WTC site for 27 years? Did you know that there already is an Islamic center at the Park 51 location and it's been there since 2007? Sadly, some of you aren't interested in fostering understanding because that would take some effort on your part. You'd rather just fear and hate because that requires no effort at all. | ||
| Oldog |
Sadly, some of you aren't interested in fostering understanding because that would take some effort on your part. You'd rather just fear and hate because that requires no effort at all. what do you know of the Quaran? and its origins? or its content? it was not the "sufi" who slammed the planes into WTC, I will give you most folks do not make the distinction, what portion of the moslem comunity are they the larger portions are sunni and sheia, what group wants the mosque? sufi sunni or shia? If I for instance If I blew up "the rock" do you think that the moslems would be placated by my church being tried as terrorists, some how i doubt it, it would likely start a jihad involving all sects, please refer to my comments on daprez, Funny me I have never assulted a moslem, but according to their Quaran, I am an infiedel and should convert or die, when Soloman Rushdi wrote a critical book on the faith ( the satanic verses ) a fatwah was issued calling for the authors death, or the cartoon about "allah" when in your knowledge has billy gram, jim baker, or any other high profile christian called for any ones death? I think that we need to question at least politely the motives of all moslems and make them understand that the WTC was targeted by extreemests TWICE and that it may not be in their best interests to be there..... They have the right to practice their faith, I support that, they do not have the right to cause trouble. the center was done to stirr up trouble, go else where... face it they are like kids with sticks in the middle east, shoot rockets at isreal, when they the jews retaliate and hunt the brigands down (while they hide amoung families) they cry fowel and cry poor us, they hurt women and children EVEN THOUGH THEY (the hesbola or the like) started the $hit to start with. like kids with sticks that cry about getting stung after smacking a hornets nest with the stick, dont seem any to bright to me, just seem to want trouble I Know that all moslems are not voilent, are not brigands, etc BUT a large portion of the terror attackes in the past 50 years have been made by Moslems against isreal and other places, Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me. } | ||
| Whisperstealth |
If things keep up their current pace, Obama will not have to worry about re-election. The process will be voided. One way or another. The right will be taken away, or some kind of massive "emergency" will unfold, holding off the elections. This guy and congress is forcing through policy that 60-70% of Americans do not want. And he is getting away with it. Two more years with the current pres/congress combo will see the end of whats left of this thing we call democracy. | ||
| Reindog |
Stop with your exclamation points and your lecturing already. You have not responded to any of the arguments that building this mosque is a bad idea in the history of bad ideas. You completely miss the point. Religious tolerance is a two-way street but that does not fit into your Socialist agenda. | ||
| 72rs |
I cant beleive that someone actually had the balls to even recomend this idea. I say place a bullit in anyone that trys to build that damn building. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I agreed with the "facts" of what Obama stated. This is America, and people have the right to build what they want where they want within the law. But he was a heartless un-american borderline treasonous idiot in the speech... why? Because he should have spent the first 30 seconds saying "this is America, and the constitution is sacred". Then he should have spent the next 29 minute and 30 seconds ripping extremist muslims a new @$$&%^& and explaining how many aspects of Sharia law are an unconstitutional human rights travesty that will never be tolerated on American soil. Instead, he felt the need to lecture those offended by people going out of their way trying to offend them that they shouldn't be offended. It was the "cop story" all over again. He blew it. Blew it blew it blew it. Unbelievable. | ||
| Reindog |
Good point, Reepicheep. Obama's use of language is annoying and he sounds like he is lecturing us like a college professor would do to a student who he considered unworthy of being in the classroom. Obama appears to be incapable of acting Presidential and showing leadership. His messages are so ambiguous that a large percentage of Americans think he is a Muslim. I know what religion he professes to be but his actions speak differently. He needs to be shown the way offstage as soon as possible. | ||
| Ebutch |
The Crusade is still not finished!We will go down in history as having the wining weapon and refused to use it and waited for our enemies to use it on us!  | ||
| M2me |
Because he should have spent the first 30 seconds saying "this is America, and the constitution is sacred". Then he should have spent the next 29 minute and 30 seconds ripping extremist muslims a new @$$&%^& and explaining how many aspects of Sharia law are an unconstitutional human rights travesty that will never be tolerated on American soil. What?!? I don't give a shit about any aspects of Sharia law. This is America. We live under a Constitution. Some American citizens are trying to build a community center in lower Manhattan. Those American citizens happen to be of the Muslim faith. So what? They are not trying to terrorize anyone or bomb anyone or offend anyone in anyway. They want to build a freaking community center! A community center will never be tolerated on American soil? Well, I hate to tell you this, but that horse is already out of the barn. There are lots of community centers on American soil. Some are Jewish, some Catholic, some Lutheran, and yes, some are Muslim. They are not trying to offend you. They are not trying to hurt you. Why do you fear and hate them so much? | ||
| M2me |
Religious tolerance is a two-way street but that does not fit into your Socialist agenda. Religious tolerance is a two-way street. But you claim it's a one-way street. You claim that Muslims must tolerate other faiths but other faiths don't need to tolerate Muslims because Muslims are terrorists and want to build a symbol of "Islamist triumphalism" as Newt Gingrich says. That argument has one major flaw: the Islamsists were not triumphant. They were not successful in destroying America. America and it's Constitution, including religious tolerance, still endures. The Islamic terrorists failed. The question comes down to: Should Muslims be allowed to build a community center and mosque two blocks from Ground Zero? I say yes, of course they should, because that's a sign of American triumphalism. Saying no means that America considers Islamic terrorists too strong and so American ideals of religious tolerance must be discarded. I think saying no is a sign of American defeatism. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
M2me: What?!? I don't give a shit about any aspects of Sharia law. This is America. We live under a Constitution. REALLY? Tell that to the muslims, ones living here in America: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0%2C2933%2C259761%2C0 0.html And this: http://creepingsharia.wordpress.com/2010/07/24/min nesota-electrolux-submits-to-sharia-law-to-accomod ate-muslim-workers/ And this: http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/20 09/07/muslims-in-minnesota-we-hate-gays-video-of-a ssault-.html "All these indicators say one thing very dramatically: Somalis coming to Minnesota are not assimilating. They are bringing the Muslim culture of that desert country to Minnesota's snowy woods. They may have to wear warmer clothing, but the Somalis want Islamic law just like back home. And they want the same illegal drug they had back home, too." Read those articles, watch the vid. It is real, and they contain these facts: Far too many Muslims have absolutely ZERO interest in the constitution except where and when they can twist it to get their way. They have NO interest in being and becoming an AMERICAN. They are here to convert us, in any way they can and will do so violently, it is a matter of time. It's a "when", not "If". I do not believe those that would move here and would like to destroy the constitution, deserve any protection under it. The Constitution is not a death pact. To allow an enemy to use it against us is foolish. A foolishness our enemies would never give to us. It blows me away how Obama, and others in power undermine the constitution at every turn when it suits them, but throw up the constitution here. Go try to build a huge Christian Church, down the street from Masjid al-Haram Mosque in Mecca, or how about in down town Tehran. And don't give me your, "This is America BS" I am sick and F'ing tired of that lame ass excuse. I believe in having a reciprocal policy. This country will find out too late it should have moved that direction decades ago. | ||
| Slaughter |
I love hate | ||
| Cyclonedon |
This cant be good (Political) good title for this tread, especially when it's posted on a motorcycle forum! | ||
| Aesquire |
Some people are easily distracted by petty crap. This "mosque" business has been going on for weeks, and that lets the bad policies of the President go unremarked. You are falling for it, suckers! But, if we must... The Screw you Mosque they want to build near ground zero in NYC is intended to be a trophy to the victory of Islam over evil western civ. Period fraking dot. Everyone who isn't a fool knows it. It is the common knowledge of the Islamic world, and the very title ( now changed ) of the project announces that to all with any recall of history. They also under U.S. law have every right to have a church, even near the location ( and within the debris field ) of islams greatest mass murder in the U.S.A. Every right. The undeniable fact that tolerance is what WE do and what THEY do not has nothing to do with their right to build a church. The fact that we have no such right in intolerant societies like Iran, Saudi Arabia, etc. means nothing. We have those rights here. Period. So do they. Final analysis though shows the simple reality that there is no "win" in the argument about the Screw You Mosque. If we permit it to be built we a fools for permitting the enemies of freedom their triumph. If we forbid it, we violate our own principals, and are fools for letting THEM make US limit religious freedom. There is no win in this battle, for us, except to keep our freedom. So the screw You Mosque may continue. I'd deny them a permit for dedication on 9/11/11, though. Perhaps because the City can't afford the security forces on such a busy and tragic anniversary. I would investigate the funding sources....and consider confiscating any funds related to terrorist groups. M2me's comments..... I say yes, of course they should, because that's a sign of American triumphalism....... They are not trying to offend you. They are not trying to hurt you. Why do you fear and hate them so much? prove my point. he parrots propaganda that is the exact opposite of fact. I suspect that his contrarian attitude is fueled more by spite than ignorance... but I can't know his heart. Maybe he really is that gullible? I doubt it. But I should think best of another, not the worst.  While we're at it.... The so called "news" companies have, in the absence of actually reporting the news, done polls to create it. The latest flap is over how many people think Barack Hussien Obama is Muslim. He was. that's the law. ( islamic law, which I have no desire to obey ) Barack claims he is no longer muslim, but "christian". The "christian" church he attended for 20 years ( without actually hearing a sermon, according to Barack ) is one of "liberation theology" the urban black American variant. So, "christian" in Obama's case means neo-communist, and not those bitter clingers out there that believe in a God beyond themselves and the Holy State. Hey, I stand for religious freedom. I'm American. Barry can believe what he wants. I feel no obligation to follow his "church" rules. I won't let him impose them on me. Also, and more important, because Barack WAS muslim, and now claims not to be there is a legal problem for him. If he is not lying about converting to his neo-communist faith, then he is Apostate. Now, the Koran does permit one of the faithful to deny his faith if he must. When his life is threatened by admitting his faith in a hostile place. ( this is the source of the perversion of the Prophet's words by some radical clerics to mean that it's ok to lie to the infidel, period. ) Barack Obama's power and desires were and are threatened if he admits to being muslim, so I suppose that does apply....at least a Harvard trained shyster could argue that. But, lying about his faith or not, he appears to be an apostate under muslim law, and therefor is automatically sentenced to death. Under "church" rules. I feel no obligation to follow his "church" rules. I won't let him impose them on me. In fact, though I despise what appears to be his moral philosophy, and vehemently disagree with his policies, I would feel obligated to break those "church" rules and defend Barack Obama against being murdered for apostasy. I wonder if the next artificial news bs will be about Michelle's diet for her kids she's going to have to send to therapy when the get older because she called them fat???? | ||
| Sifo |
It is the common knowledge of the Islamic world, and the very title ( now changed ) of the project announces that to all with any recall of history. Who can doubt that once built this mosque will be known as the Cordoba mosque of NY. It is a clear sign of one of their victories over the US. Anyone who doesn't recognize that bringing down the WTC was a victory for them is kidding themselves. The Cordoba mosque will be a symbol of that victory for centuries. It's not a question of freedom of religion, it's a question of freedom of conquest. The argument that the site of the mosque isn't part of ground zero just falls flat. The current building there was damaged as part of the attack, a direct strike with the landing gear of one of the planes. I fail to see how anyone can have this knowledge and claim it has nothing to do with the 9/11 attack. The whole BO being a muslim thing is pretty murky. He was born and raised a muslim, therefor in the muslim world he is still a muslim. There is no denouncing your faith allowed. I don't think of him as a practicing muslim. He certainly isn't a practicing Christian or Jew either. I was part of a church for 20 years that he claims he didn't know what was going on. I have little doubt that his membership in the church had more to do with winning votes than it did his faith (the other possibility is that he has just been dishonest about his true beliefs). I seriously doubt that many people really believe that he is a practicing muslim. I can certainly understand where people could believe that is where his values stem from though, just as a non-practicing Catholic may still have many of their morals and beliefs based on the Catholic religion. | ||
| Slaughter |
It's comforting to know that both sides of these arguments are DAMNED TO HELL | ||
| Sifo |
And the best the middle ground can possibly hope for is purgatory.  | ||
| M2me |
REALLY? Tell that to the muslims, ones living here in America:
Come on! The same thing has been said about every new immigrant group from the Irish, Italians, Polish, etc. Every new immigrant group is demonized. Coming to America is a culture shock but within a generation or two they will assimilate. And using "a mildly hallucinogenic drug"? This is unprecedented in American culture! The Somalians are going to impose their culture on us and Americans might even start smoking marijuana! Oh, wait. Well, forget about that part. I happen to live in Minneapolis which has one of the largest Somalia populations in the U.S. I interact with Somalians all the time. Some are obviously foreign but some, especially the younger ones, speak perfect English, fiddle with their iPods, text on their cell phones and act like pretty much any other typical American young person. They will slowly assimilate like all immigrant groups have.
That article was written three and half years ago and in that time there has been no angry mobs with pitch forks and torches storming the Somalians to stop the onslaught. And guess what? Life goes on as normal. There is no onslaught. The onslaught is a fantasy conjured up in bigoted peoples minds. These types of people hate anyone who is different than them because they see anyone who is different as a threat to their small minded world view. |
