| Author | Message | ||
     Jens |
Nice link: http://www.visordown.com/motorcycle-news-industry/ how-much-did-harleys-mv-gamble-cost/13373.html How much cost you the facelost H-D? 1 year ago in the HD 25 years of Softailebook I wrote exact that, its a bit spoky to see H-D buying themself again into the facility they sold in the 60th in emergency... If you think history is not repeating, it will for people who never learn... (Message edited by Jens on August 17, 2010) | ||
| Crusty |
So; the article says H-D lost 170,000,000 Pounds. I just ran that through a currency converter, and it comes out to a little over $265,000,000. Can you imaging the caliber of motorcycles coming out of East Troy if that money had been funneled there? ...And as the Titanic settles slowly into the Atlantic, the water is starting to cover the surface of the deck... | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
that was my thought... dumb asses | ||
| Gunut75 |
Wow! That's all I have to say about that. | ||
| Radioelasais |
... and just consider that the latest brutale and F4 born under HD are not so welcomed by MV fans: quality and parts are not as good as in the past, apparently they went thorough a cost reduction and the products were not improved at all. frame, exhaust, engine, weight, suspensions, pegs and other details were better in 910, 989 and 1078 than the newest 990/1090. the new ones feature "just" the traction control | ||
| Jens |
http://secfilings.nyse.com/download.php?format=PDF &ipage=7094716&cik= Nice document.... | ||
| Crusty |
Well, hey; H-D didn't get taken as bad as I originally thought! I thought they sold MV back to Castiglioni for $1.00. However, they sold MV for $1.00 and 2 euros!  Now THAT'S real business acumen, I'll tell ya!  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
did wandell go to school with the obama bail out crew ? Must throw away millions of dollars in superfulous spending that doesnt create new product, doesnt improve existing product, doesnt increase effeciencies, doesnt off set future production cost raises, doesnt invest in capital,infrastructure or labor, .... but hell it makes a glossy headline. | ||
| Davegess |
This one is not Wandell's fault. The previous admin bought the joint (sorta like Obama's deal - getting flak 'cause he has someone else's mess to clean up  and dumped money in it. Wandell really has no choice but to dump it and this is the best deal he could get. IF H-D had keep it they would be on the hook for millions more in potential losses or close the place down and pay the enormousness of doing this in Italy. Sad story. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
IF H-D had keep it they would be on the hook for millions more in potential losses or close the place down and pay the enormousness of doing this in Italy. And face the world's wrath for shuttering an iconic Italian brand. Too bad they did not have the same amount of respect for Buell... | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Wandell really has no choice but to dump it I now think Harley Davidson is running low on choices and should strongly consider dumping Wandell! | ||
| Stirz007 |
From Kneedragger: In the filing Harley said it “contributed 20 million Euros to MV as operating capital” that was put in escrow and is available to the buyer over a 12-month period. The buyer is Claudio Castiglioni, who, with his brother Sergio, ran MV Agusta for years before selling it to Harley two years ago for about $109 million. In the filing Harley also said it received “nominal consideration” from the buyer. In a subsequent interview the company said the specific amount it received was $3 Euros. A company spokesman said the terms of the transaction “reflect the realities of the current economic environment and the difficult conditions” in the sport-bike market. Harley has previously write-downs totaling $162.6 million for the fair value of MV Agusta and began treating the unit as a discontinued operation after announcing its intention to sell it a year ago. (Would have been nice to give Buell a nice $20 million plus operating reserve.....) | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I am sure that HD tax attorney's will have ball massaging their fat little fingers on the ten key working those numbers. | ||
| Steveford |
I wonder how much the third party got for brokering that deal? Now that H-D has boned Buell and given the Italians a deal that defies belief I wonder what's the next trick up their sleeve? My money is on screw the union hard, replace everyone possible with temps and then move anyways. | ||
| Koz5150 |
What I still can not figure out is Why does it cost $25,000 for a bagger and only $3.98 for an entire motorcycle company??? Has anyone at HD figured that out yet? | ||
| Patches |
Claudio Castiglioni Dropped the Debt of $109 million H-D offered a year ago, though H-D spent $20 million in operating cost for the last year. Claudio Castiglioni agreed to take the Co. back or H-D could have shuddered it all together like they did BMC. The $3.98 is nothing more than a legal transfer on paper. http://investor.harley-davidson.com/secfiling.cfm? filingID=1193125-10-183610 | ||
| Anonymous |
Claudio had them by the short hairs. There were other buyers, but buying Claudio out of his contract obligations would have cost more than the others were offering -- and they were offering a lot. So Claudio sells a virtually bankrupt company with more than 100M Euros in debt, and walks away for 3 Euros with a nearly debt-free company that has had significant investments in infrastructure and new designs. You gotta love the guy -- and always remember to count your fingers after shaking hands with him. There were numerous voices within the Harley organization shouting warnings when MV was bought -- the senior-most management chose not to listen to them. | ||
| Buellnuts |
Why does it cost $25,000 for a bagger and only $3.98 for an entire motorcycle company??? Because Harley is too busy selling life styles. Harley needs to change there, (American made) to "Sold here in America" Bag Lappers! Bob, Hater of all things HD! | ||
| Just_ziptab |
h-d stupidity knows no bounds or time frames. At least read the last sentence. "Jerry Branch of Long Beach, Ca (Branch Flowmetrics) ported and assembled all the alloy XR Heads and also the XR1000 street machine heads which were essentially the racing XR750 head. After his shop did the polishing and porting, assembly, etc., the Heads were air freighted back to Milwaukee and the Racing Dept. did final assembly of the engines." "One thing that is noteworthy. The H-D engineers told Jerry to port the heads to specs they had come up with during R & D. Meanwhile Jerry had been doing his own testing and flowing of the head and actually had a configuration that was showing 3+ hp on the dyno more than the H-D configured design. Jerry offered to port the heads using his design for the same contract deal as the original. But the H-D people said, no, port them to our specs which he reluctantly did." "Now when you got your XR and wanted more power you had to ship the heads back to Jerry and pay a few hundred dollars for a revised port job that could have been free in your original XR if H-D had swallowed their ego and went with the better ports that Jerry offered." "Branch's XR engines consistently put out more power than the best factory race engines. Jerry was also the first to extract 100 hp from the XR engine even before the factory did. His rider Hank Scott, who won many Mile track Nationals on Jerry's equipment, had noticeable HP advantage over HD's factory engines. Branch could have also probably got the now defunct VR 1000 competitive in AMA Superbike Racing but again H-D engineer's ego got in the way and the project was withdrawn from Racing after humiliating results." | ||
| Swampy |
Yeah, but we have the new AMA XR Series! | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"Claudio had them by the short hairs. There were other buyers, but buying Claudio out of his contract obligations would have cost more than the others were offering -- and they were offering a lot." Thanks Anony. Asphalt & Rubber mentioned Castiglioni taking H-D to court (mv-agusta-purchase-details), I was wondering why. Sounds like a pretty interesting contract | ||
| Davegess |
I have heard the same thing. He pretty much forced them to sell to him or face a long time in court. | ||
| Doerman |
HD must have simply skipped the Due Diligence step in the purchase process back in 2007. The board and leadership's feet should have been kept to the fire over this. I know, goes back to before Wandell. | ||
| Court |
>>>>HD must have simply skipped the Due Diligence step in the purchase process back in 2007. Don't rule out the catalytic effects of alcohol, ego and liberal loads of bullshit. Claudio "snowed" a couple industry execs. I respect that Claudio had to have his act together to snow a couple seasoned HD execs. Just think what he could do with a CEO from Johnson Controls and a CFO who's background includes Kraft Foods, Oscar Mayer Foods and Miller Brewing Company. These will be a fun next couple years simply based on horror stories I am hearing from execs who are still there. The top execs, with any sense, have cashed in their chips and fled. I'm sure that Claudio will have MV Agusta back to a financial disaster, like most good Italian marques, in short order. | ||
| Hootowl |
"but again H-D engineer's ego got in the way and the project was withdrawn from Racing after humiliating results" And yet they still thought they could design a turbo charger.  | ||
| Court |
The history of the XR-1000 is actually quite amazing. For a complete and comprehensive insight take a look at "Harley-Davidson: An Official 80 Year History". I'd recommend pages 77 and 172 as a start. |
