| Author | Message | ||
     Reindog |
Wow, I just drank about eight beers at Lighton's house and the picture is now as clear as day. Good thing Spidey left no clues. It still looks like a uterus to me but now I can't help but see it the other way. That was hard to see even with the obvious clues. I didn't get Fatty's response except in the spirit of Threads Gone Wild. It was similar to seeing the arrow in the FedEx trademark. It is totally obvious if you know how to see but difficult otherwise. (Message edited by reindog on August 08, 2010) | ||
| Gohot |
Is this place even a buell sight anymore? you all seem to have wandered far from the reason this was first made BWB Don't really care..... just saying. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Jerry...The questions I was asking are serious but you don't have to answer them if you don't want to. I was just trying to show the types of questions I think about when I think about government policy like health care, Social Security, regulation of business, etc. M2me, sorry so late in getting back to you. I was going to reference a book I have in my collection to help better answer your questions, but it is out on loan to a friend. I'll make you a deal. If you're truly curious and interested in learning more about our Constitution and what our Founding Fathers were so successful in accomplishing (and were hoping to perpetuate for future generations), get your hands on a copy of this book: http://www.amazon.com/5000-Year-Leap-Original-Auth orized/dp/0880801484 Here's my offer to you: If you buy the book, read it, study it, and don't feel like you got your money's worth, I'll reimburse you for the cost of the book and shipping charges, and you keep the book. The 5000-Year Leap will make it clear that our country has failed to heed the wishes and wisdom of our Founding Fathers, and that although times have certainly changed in the past 200+ years, the principles that our country was founded upon have not. Buy the book - it is an excellent read regardless of one's political leanings. If you don't agree, I'll pick up your tab. Deal?  Regards, FB | ||
| Sifo |
+1 on the 5000 year leap. Great offer too. You can probably find it used on Ebay cheap. | ||
| Reindog |
FB, I just ordered my copy from Amazon. This looks like a great read. Thanks! A book that blew me away was "The Creature from Jekyll Island", which I learned about from Court. It is a socio-economic history of the Federal Reserve which shows how the government and the banking system are in collusion with the creation of fiat money. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Is this place even a buell sight anymore?  | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
FB, I just ordered my copy from Amazon. This looks like a great read. Thanks! Tom, you're welcome. It's a very enlightening book, and paints a clear picture of the beliefs, ideals and wishes of the Founding Fathers during the creation of our nation. They certainly never desired a government like we've got today. FB | ||
| Reindog |
JFK would not recognize the government that we have become, regardless of Red and Blue. I find it astonishing that so many Americans are willing to delude themselves that the current administration is leading us down the correct path. The mindset of voluntary enslavement is an anathema to me as are all forms of Tyranny. If even a single Badwebber reads these threads and begins to change their world view, then all this huffing and puffing will have been worth it. I used to be extremely Liberal but slowly realized the mistake of my world view....and changed. Education and experience is enlightening. Giving away free pizza leads eventually to no pizza, but giving equal opportunity to work hard in order to build a pizza oven, leads to greatness as a pepperoni'ed up people. BTW, I remain your humble AND Liberal servant when it comes to the subject of partying in addition to riding Ulys (not at the same time though). Yust wondering. | ||
| Swordsman |
" I used to be extremely Liberal but slowly realized the mistake of my world view....and changed" I know a few of those myself. Seems like getting out of school and away from professors is the best catalyst. The real world will yank a knot in your chain pretty quick. ~SM | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
If even a single Badwebber reads these threads and begins to change their world view, then all this huffing and puffing will have been worth it. +1. BTW, I remain your humble AND Liberal servant when it comes to the subject of partying in addition to riding Ulys (not at the same time though). Tom, we have the Ultimate Hurl Deck here in Virginia, and Uly riders are more than welcome; y'all come: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 585862.html?1281533827 The real world will yank a knot in your chain pretty quick. Amen, ~SM, amen. FB | ||
| Reepicheep |
Winston Churchill: "If you are young and conservative, you have no heart. If you are old and liberal, you have no brain". Same here, I came out of college very liberal. It was in *really* thinking things through and in experiencing life that I dramatically changed my perspective. Truth be told, NPR did more to fool me for a long time than any college prof did. I respect their reporting, I wish they would just be more intellectually honest and call themselves the voice of liberal America or a progressive advocacy group. Err, and stop taking tax dollars to do it. They do what they do really well. | ||
| M2me |
I'll make you a deal. If you're truly curious and interested in learning more about our Constitution and what our Founding Fathers were so successful in accomplishing (and were hoping to perpetuate for future generations), get your hands on a copy of this book: I honestly had never heard of this book but after reading some comments on Amazon, and reading some things about Cleon Skousen, I already don't like it. I'm guessing you're a Glenn Beck fan. I'm not. My studies of the Constitution do not interest me in converting to yours or Glenn Beck's religion. It ain't about religion, it's about a framework for government written by mortal men. There is nothing religious or spiritual about it. Also, I don't like the "arrogant American" aspect of it. As if the founding fathers wrote the Constitution and this is what caused all the advancements of humankind in the past 200+ years. What about the UK, Germany, France, Denmark, Japan, Russia, etc.? Are we to just discount their contributions out of hand? 5,000 years? What about other civilizations such as the ancient Greeks, Romans, Persians, Egyptians, Chinese, etc.? They contributed nothing to the advancement of humankind during the 5,000 years? Sorry, I don't buy it. Don't try to make the Constitution and the U.S. into something it's not. | ||
| Sifo |
And so it goes with a closed mind. | ||
| Reindog |
Did you expect anything different from an admitted Socialist? I guess m2me also doesn't like Green Eggs and Ham either. He wouldn't read it in a car. He wouldn't read it to his czar. Although the book is elective, He wouldn't read it in his collective. He won't read it in a chariot. Because he's a member of the Proletariat! (please excuse the last couplet ). The thought of reading it would strain the resistant need to have an open brain. So Jerry, there is no need to contribute to a guy who only wants to redistribute. (I guess I better stick to engineering). | ||
| Blake |
Ever see a small child with hands clamped over ears while uttering "nnnaaah-nnnaaah-nnnaaah..." desperately trying to avoid hearing what mom or dad are saying, usually something like "time for bed"? It's one of the most highly developed skills of American Progressives/Socialists and they are amazing at it. We just witnessed one of the all time masters. | ||
| Blake |
Translation: "That book may provide me with knowledge that might tend to contradict my progressive socialist political ideology, therefore I shall not read it lest my world, the one I've so carefully concocted, be obliterated." | ||
| M2me |
And so the name calling begins. Notice in my post I never called Jerry any names. I didn't write that "there is no need to contribute" to Jerry's ideas. I wrote about the book that Jerry had posted about, not about Jerry personally. I have different ideas than Jerry and others here do. So what? Why is that such a threat to you? To me, that's a sign of insecurity. It's a sign of someone who is not secure with their world view and so personally attacks anyone who disagrees with it. That's kind of sad. It's takes all kinds to fill a freeway. You're going to disagree on some points with a lot of them, probably most. But that doesn't mean that you need to attack them personally. People are different. It's what makes the world go round. Don't feel threatened by it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Just dug my copy of the Communist Manifesto and the Red Revolution papers out of storage. I figure if they are using them as a play book for their 'change' I should refresh my memory on the particulars spoiler, it ends in Epic FAIL. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I honestly had never heard of this book but after reading some comments on Amazon, and reading some things about Cleon Skousen, I already don't like it. M2me, thx for your reply, but I'm a little surprised that you're not willing to give the book a shot. Earlier, in regards to the Constitution and whether or not the wisdom of the Founding Fathers was still relevant today, you stated: What does "the general Welfare" mean? Does it mean the same thing today as it did when the Founding Fathers wrote it? What does "regulate Commerce" mean? Is commerce the same today as it was when the Constitution was written? These questions, and many more, are what we need to think about when considering government and public policy. I think I've got a pretty good take on your overall political viewpoint, and didn't think this book would "automatically" convert you to conservatism, but I did - and still do - think it would help answer the questions you have about the Constitution. And to make the deal a "no lose" situation, I offered to pick up the tab if you didn't feel you got your money's worth from reading it. The book is not "religious." It's a scholarly presentation that does an excellent job of giving folks like you and me a better opportunity to understand where the Founding Fathers were coming from, so to speak. In my opinion, if you are truly interested in why the Constitution - despite the fact it was written over two centuries ago - is still relevant today, you'll give the book a chance. Your opinions and beliefs may not be altered in so doing, but at least you'll be much better informed regarding the Constitution and the wisdom of the Founding Fathers. My offer still stands, sir. What have you got to lose? Regards, FB | ||
| Doug_s |
i haven't read the book, but i did check out what it'a about - there's an interesting brief on it over at wiki: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Five_Thousand_Yea r_Leap for me, some of its 28 tenets ring true, others seem to me to be b.s. some are "socialist", some ambiguous, some contradictory, some reek of conceit. it could be an interesting read. but, i think the best read on the constitution is "the federalist papers". these were written by the folks that wrote the constitution, and were trying to "sell" it, before its ratification... doug s. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
for me, some of its 28 tenets ring true, others seem to me to be b.s. some are "socialist", some ambiguous, some contradictory, some reek of conceit. it could be an interesting read. With all due respect, going online and checking out "what it's about" is like going online and checking out what Buells are about without actually taking one for a ride. Something the book does well (quite well, in my opinion) is offer up passages from various writings by the Founding Fathers, words written in private correspondence to friends and colleagues, as one example, which help further explain their overall mindset at the time. My description of the book is weak and puny. It would be far better for the serious scholar to obtain a copy of the book and read it for him- or herself. It may not change one's political beliefs, but at least it will make the reader better informed about the Founding Fathers and our Constitution, and how this precious document is still very much viable and relevant today. Doug, I'll make you the same offer I made to M2me: Buy the book, give it a chance, and if you don't feel your investment was of value, I'll cover the cost of the book and shipping. Regards, FB | ||
| Sifo |
In my opinion, if you are truly interested in why the Constitution - despite the fact it was written over two centuries ago - is still relevant today, you'll give the book a chance. Your opinions and beliefs may not be altered in so doing, but at least you'll be much better informed regarding the Constitution and the wisdom of the Founding Fathers. One of the reasons that the Constitution has held up well for over 2 centuries is that the writers didn't simply consider what they felt were their current situation. They looked back through history and examined the benefits and failures of many of the political systems that have been tried throughout man's history. That is what the 5000 Year Leap examines. It actually draws quite heavily on the Federalist Papers as reference. I won't claim to fully agree with every conclusion the author comes to, but he will certainly make you think about many things in a new way. When I read it I knew almost nothing about the book. I knew nothing about the author, and didn't know when it was written. I was very surprised how well it addressed the issues of today given that it was written quite a few years ago. It's well researched and provides tons of references to other materials. Many of the references are to the Federalist papers (great to have a copy nearby), and also Democracy in America by Alexis de Tocqueville (I was prompted to read this one next by the Leap). I just find it humorous to claim to understand something like the intent of the Constitution, but refuse to read a book on the subject that is recommended by multiple sources and offered to be paid for if you feel it wasn't worth your while. If nothing else it would provide insight into a viewpoint that you still may not agree with. It does take many people to fill a freeway. Unfortunately many of the people who fill the freeway are only marginally qualified to safely operate a vehicle on that freeway. BTW Total Control by Lee Parks is a great read too. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Sifo, well said. Denise and I are presently studying up on John Adams. One of the things that strikes me about the Founding Fathers was their ability to debate as gentlemen - grace, dignity and logic are powerful tools. My hope is that this thread can be conducted with the same civility. FB | ||
| Sifo |
Another great read a tangent subject is Signing Their Lives Away. Little mini-biographies on each of the signers of the Declaration of Independence. It was actually recommended to me by a liberal. I'm glad I kept an open mind. | ||
| Jb2 |
Hell Ferris, just buy me the book for Christmas!  Forever a good quote, "By their fruits, ye shall know them." There are some people whose mind you'll never change. Facts and reason won't persuade them. They have a whole set of ideas completely contrary to the mindset of our founding fathers. Just jump over to the Huffington Post one day(for fun of course) because they flock there. JB2 | ||
| Doug_s |
"...There are some people whose mind you'll never change. Facts and reason won't persuade them. They have a whole set of ideas completely contrary to the mindset of our founding fathers. Just jump over to the Huffington Post one day(for fun of course) because they flock there. ..." hmmm... seems to me, more of them hang here at bwb...  again, prolly the best read about the constitution - imo - is "the federalist papers"... doug s. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
JB2, consider it done. I'm not convinced that someone's mind can't be changed - sometimes it takes many small victories to win the big war. I've never sparred with M2me or Doug_s before, and maybe I'm wasting my time. Or, maybe not. I do know that insults have never won a battle, which is one reason I admire folks who truly know how to debate. It's a skill I don't claim to possess, but I'm working on it. The 5000-Year Leap does SUCH a good job of explaining what I am unable to do. It's hard to imagine someone giving the book a fair shake and not coming away with a newfound respect for our Founding Fathers, and for the United States of America. Good to hear from you - see ya in a couple of weeks. FB1 | ||
| Jb2 |
doug_s, Nope. I see very few flaming progressives hanging here on BWB. On the other hand they make up 90% of the crowd at HuffPo. FB1, Looking forward brother!!! I hope my gift for you will be as interesting as the book I requested from Santa Ferris. I almost pulled the trigger at Amazon but glad I held off. Your debating skills rise far above mine. I believe what I believe. I'm not very good at listening to the other side because of their twisted perception of the Constitution and the intent of our founding fathers. You are a better man than I in that regard. Debate on. JB2 | ||
| Buellkowski |
Right or wrong, I prefer to think of the Constitution as a sturdy golden "anchor". It allows our "boat" to move safely with the tides and currents, yet prevents us from drifting away. And because it is golden, exquisitely fashioned, and an heirloom handed down by our ancestors, we cherish it too much to ever abandon it. It is a shame that we expend so much energy and bile "interpreting" its minutiae, as if ascertaining how beautiful and useful its goldsmiths intended it to be was its purpose. | ||
| Doug_s |
"...There are some people whose mind you'll never change. Facts and reason won't persuade them. They have a whole set of ideas completely contrary to the mindset of our founding fathers. Just jump over to the Huffington Post one day(for fun of course) because they flock there..." hmmmm... seems to me, more of them hang here at bwb... doug_s, Nope. I see very few flaming progressives hanging here on BWB. On the other hand they make up 90% of the crowd at HuffPo. exactly! i couldn't have said it better myself! which is why there's so few folks here on the bwb that facts and reason can persuade... doug s. |
