| Author |
Message |
    
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 10:23 am: | 
|
Thanks Froggy.
Here's the details from mine...
Left on 167th st.
Travel 1.5 miles, right on Central Ave.
Travel 4.2 miles, left on Vollmer Rd.
Travel 0.3 miles, right on I-57 S.
Travel 35 miles, Exit 308 right to US-45/US52 to Kankakee.
Travel 0.3 miles, Keep right onto US-45 S/US 52 S.
Travel 28 miles, Keep left on 1400e.
Travel 8.5 miles, right on hwy 49.
Travel 0.5 miles, keep left on hwy 49.
Travel 0.1 miles, Left on 2nd St.
Travel 1.8 miles, Keep right on Hwy 49.
Travel 30 miles, Right onto I-74 W to Champaign.
Travel 2.8 miles, Exit 197 Right to IL-49 S/Ogden.
Travel 0.3 miles, Left on Market St.
Travel 16 miles, Keep right on Hwy 49.
Travel 25 miles, Right on Hwy 16.
Travel 21 miles, Right to I-57 S.
Travel 13 miles, Exit 177 right to US-45 to Neoga.
Travel 0.3 miles, Right on US 45.
Travel 16 miles, Left on Fayette Ave.
Travel 0.2 miles, Right on Willow St.
Travel 200 feet, Arrive at Effingham on right.
205 miles in 3:46 hours. I sure wish mine would just tell me to go 180 miles on I-57!
I did a recalculate to optimize for a shorter distance and got a route that was only slightly different gettin to I-57 at the north end. 203 miles in 3:51 hours.
I think I'm justified in naming it Sybil. I may just have to talk to Garmin about this.
Again the only avoidances that are set is to avoid ferries. |
04buell
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 11:12 am: |
|
I work at 101 South Merchant Street
Effingham, IL
Put that in and come and visit me!!!!
Carol |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 11:27 am: |
|
I should be there in 3 to 8 hours...  |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 12:06 pm: |
|
I just checked on the availability of a software update, and there was an update available. Mine went from version 3.40 to 3.90 for my Nuvi 500.
Tried the above route again with absolutely zero change. Sybil is just as flaked out as ever. |
04buell
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 12:12 pm: |
|
I'll buy dinner....and I will call Jerry and have him meet us!  |
04buell
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 12:13 pm: |
|
Oh, forgot to add.........HA! (I would follow Froggy's directions).
(Message edited by 04buell on August 14, 2010) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 01:11 pm: |
|
So I sent an email through the Garmin site asking about the poor route selection on my Nuvi. They say they try to respond within 3 business days. I can't wait to see what their response is. Here's what I sent them.
quote:As examples doing a route from Tinley Park, IL to Effingham, IL or from Mountain Home, AR to St. Louis, MO the Garmin gives a very poor and complicated route that is both longer and more time consuming that necessary by a large margin. Google Maps or any other mapping software I've compared to does a much better job on these routes. Please feel free to verify. I have the Garmin set to travel by car, avoiding only ferries and have also tried both Faster Time and Shorter Distance. I am very disappointed in the performance of the route logic in a product that I otherwise like quite a lot. I had someone online try the Tinley Park, IL to Effingham, IL route on his Garmin Zumo 550 and his route was 15 miles shorter and 1:02 hours faster. I have learned to be very cautious about following it's directions because of some very indirect routes, dead end routes, etc.
Is there anything that can be done to address the poor route selections from this product? Clearly other products do a superior job.
Thank you, Tom Kandel
I don't think that's over the top. The performance of the routing logic is quite disappointing. Time to wait for a response...
|
04buell
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 02:20 pm: |
|
I have the Nuvi 550 and Jerry has the Zumo 450. They are pretty good about giving similar directions, but they are not always exactly the same. Mine is a couple years newer than his. I just thought the newer maps made the difference. Never thought that one of them could be a little wacky. Maybe I need to do a little comparison mapping. C |
Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 02:32 pm: |
|
I have wondered if updating my map would make any difference, but it's only a bit over a year old. Certainly I-57 was a highway that was navigable in 2009. You should try going home from Tinley Park with each of them.
The route from Mountain Home, AR to St. Louise that I mentioned to Garmin is one that we frequently drive. Sybil's route will add close to 3 hours to the trip if I was willing to give it a try. I consider that way beyond just a minor issue. Still it's been a great tool, you just have to be a bit careful with it. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 09:08 am: |
|
So I got a response from Garmin late afternoon on Sunday. This is what they suggested.
quote:Dear Tom Kandel,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International. If your nuvi is not routing what you know to be the quickest way to a destination, it may be result of a couple variables.
The nuvi will route you the to your destination in the quickest general way it knows how. If you are more familiar with the area, chances are you will know a quicker way in certain scenarios. If that is the case, then the nuvi will not route those 'shortcuts' because it wants to route you on major general roads.
However, should you decide to take such shortcuts, then the device will most likely re-calculate to your desired route if you simply drive that route.
Other variables that can affect the routing of the device is the navigational settings.
Power the unit on and select Tools
Select Settings
Select Navigation
Ensure that the Route Preference is to Faster Time
Press the Enabled button to the right of Avoidances
Ensure that these options are set to your preference as the unit will avoid any of the checked options when calculating a route.
Press Ok
Back out to the main menu, and you should be ready to go.
Once you are at the main menu, we also need to adjust the usage mode:
Select Tools
Select Settings
Select System
Ensure that the usage mode is set to Automobile.
Once the settings are adjusted accordingly, then the device should now be able to calculate the fastest route to your desired destination, aside from the shortcuts in certain areas as mentioned previously.
With Best Regards,
Henry L
Product Support Specialist
Automotive Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Henry L, Associate #6934
www.garmin.com
And my response back to them this morning...
quote:Henry,
Thank you for your fast reply. As I stated in my original e-mail I have the unit set to travel by car (called "Driving" in the menu) and have tried both fastest route and shortest route. Either way it takes a longer and slower route than necessary. I have double checked the setting as you suggested with no change.
I would greatly appreciate any other suggestions you may have to resolve this issue.
Thank you,
Tom Kandel
While I really appreciate their quick response, I sure hope they can start getting to the cause of the problem. |
Borrowedbike
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:05 am: |
|
Wow. Henry has either pretty piss poor customer service skills or poor english skills to have sent such a poor response. I'll work on the assumption that's a canned response, but you'd thing he could have pick out that you tried that already.
Sifo are you POSITIVE you haven't added an avoid point on the interstate? If you've checked I apologize for missing it, but I know a few times I've put in avoid points through the Mapsource software, and had the unit take me way out of my way to get around them. I'm not sure if avoid points added in the Mapsource software will be selected by the unit regardless of settings. But I haven't looked at the directions or played with it... |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 12:05 pm: |
|
Call Garmin, that is your best bet. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 01:48 pm: |
|
Borrowedbike,
I have no idea how to add an avoid point. As far as I know this isn't a feature in the Nuvi unit, and I don't use Mapsource at all. I have been through the documentation a few times too learning what the unit can do. I really like it for what it can do, then it tries to do something really stupid. No doubt that was a canned response right from the FAQ list.
So I got a new response from them already. At least they are quick. I've been slower in getting back to them actually. Here's the latest, from Rich...
quote:Dear Tom Kandel,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I'm sorry but I can't tell you for sure why the Nuvi is routing you in the manner that it does. The City Navigator program that runs on the Nuvi uses mathematical algorithms to calculate routes and in many instances, it will calculate a route that is quite different than what you would map out for yourself. Also, if there is an error in some of the map data, it can give less than desirable directions.
I checked your account and it shows that you are using the 2009 version of maps. The current version is 2011.20. There have been seven updates since the maps on your Nuvi. This could also have an effect on the routes produced. The older maps may lack new constructions that would have give a more direct route.
With Best Regards,
Rich C
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Rich C, Associate #5683
www.garmin.com
And my reply...
quote:Rich,
Thank you for your prompt responses. I have considered it updating the maps could possibly help this situation, but it would be nice to know that it will for sure and I'm not just dumping money down a hole on this thing. I can live with it taking me a block out of my way occasionally when I'm going somewhere unfamiliar. I-57 is a major highway that there really is little excuse for having errors on in the maps after many years of doing mapping software. I know of at least 5 routes where it will add substantial time and distance to a route so this isn't a singular anomaly. This has been just in my personal travels, I have no doubt that trying to use it professionally would give numerous more examples. The I-57 example I provided was just one of the easiest to demonstrate. It also is clearly not just a single, or even a couple of data errors as you can start adding way points on I-57 and it will keep finding exits off of I-57.
If I had some assurance that throwing money at it would solve this problem, I might be more willing to do so. Frankly though it should be able to navigate down a major highway right out of the box without any additional expense. There just aren't that many major highways in the country that this should be happening. This doesn't even begin to cover the times I have been lead down a series of country roads until I find myself at a dead end being told to follow a two-track past some farmers barn. These would be situations where I might be more forgiving of mapping errors as they are far less traveled and don't expect every possible back road to be thoroughly tested, major highways should be a no-brainer though.
Bottom line is that if you can give some solid assurances that updating to the current maps will fix my issues, I might be open to this. The implication here becomes that either this error has existed for years in the map data, in which case I have little faith that these issues have been addressed in the past year, or they are errors that have been introduced into the map data along the way somehow, in which case I have to wonder which ones will be fixed, if any and which new ones are being introduced in the new map data. I'm really not sure what to think at this point.
Thank you,
Tom Kandel
I would have happily spent the money for updated maps if they had come forward and said that we are aware of that problem in your version and it's been corrected, or we have tested the sample route in with the newest maps it it works correctly. The response of we have no idea, but try spending money kind of pisses me off.
At this point they need to guarantee that it will correct my issues before I throw money down the rabbit hole. The thing is I know of certain problems with it's mapping logic at this point, and I know to ignore it in those situations. I can do that for free! What I'm likely to get with spending more money is a new set of issues that will frustrate me further at a later data anyway.
They really kind of pissed me off with that attitude and now I'm feeling like I really need the pot sweetened before I do anything. A satisfaction guarantee, a significant discount, a free upgrade, something.
I can get this kind of support from my local HD dealer! I'll keep posting responses. Now that they've pissed me off I'm having some fun! Too much fun to call them directly at this point.  |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 02:57 pm: |
|
Well at least they are quick to respond. I guess you can be quick when you don't really try. The latest from Garmin...
quote:Dear Tom Kandel,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I'm sorry but I can't give any guarantees of performance. The City Navigator product is an immense database and in any of this size, there are bound to be inaccuracies and when they are encountered, the results can be less than expected. Updates provide the latest data that's been collected but again, that doesn't translate into flawless.
With Best Regards,
Rich C
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Rich C, Associate #5683
www.garmin.com
And my reply...
quote:Rich,
OK. That sure doesn't make me want to just throw money at the problem.
Tom Kandel
I've got over 20 years of writing computer code under my belt. When they make zero effort to replicate the issue I see no point in giving them any money for upgrades that they say they have no idea if it will fix anything. |
Dynasport
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 02:59 pm: |
|
My experience with Garmin tech support has been fantastic. My first experience with them was on an old 60c, which was first and foremost a hiking GPS that you could load maps onto and use in your car. My job bought it for our office and a different employee took possession of it and proceeded to mess it up royally attempting to load maps into it. The other employee left and I was given the GPS to try and get working. I had never even touched a GPS at that time. I called their 1-800 number and was helped by an extremely patient and knowledgeable person. That pretty much made me a customer for life.
I have purchased several Garmin GPSs myself, and while I sometimes get strange routing, it is pretty rare.
I know you say you are having fun going back and forth with Garmin customer service, but if you want to actually get to the bottom of the problem (which may take sending the unit in) I would give them a call. If solving the problem is now less important to you than continuing this email exchange, then carry on. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 03:23 pm: |
|
I'm pretty much done with their tech support, unless they come back with some info that gives me the warm fuzzies. It's a minor enough issue that I can live with, especially considering that an update is zero guarantee of fixing any of my known problems, and just as likely to introduce new issues that I don't know of.
Here's my reasoning behind that. I-57 is a major highway in IL. There's a very finite number of highways like that in the US. Garmin has been doing maps for years now. It would be inconceivable that this was a problem that has existed for all the years they have been doing GPSs. It is more than just a case of wanting to avoid part of the road. As you drive down I-57 it keeps recalculating new routes that take you way out of the way. It does this traveling north and south. It's a major problem that would get noticed quickly. Dead ending me in farmer Jones's driveway I can understand not getting reported, but not the I-57 thing. So however I-57 go so messed up in the version I have can happen to any road in the new version. Or the problem may just be unrelated to the map version. I wonder if it may be related to using more memory for the numerous route file I have stored. I can test that when I have time myself with out tech support.
I'm more unsatisfied with the lack of effort to resolve the problem accurately than the problem itself. They at least could have plugged Tinley Park and Effingham into a computer (I'm sure they run this stuff on simulators during development and testing) and said that the problem doesn't happen with the latest version of the map data. It wouldn't require more than a couple of minutes to do that much. Am I expecting too much.
I feel like I just walked out of my local HD dealer after being told "they all do that". |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 03:31 pm: |
|
99% of the routing issues they deal with on a day to day basis by email are user error or something that can be fixed by changing a setting, hence what appears to you as a lack of support. That is why I suggested you call them, explain it better over the phone, point out how other models using the same 2009 map do not route this incorrectly. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 04:06 pm: |
|
Froggy, It's interesting that you did your test with 2009 map data. Still a different data set though. You said your's was...
City Navigator North America NY 2009
Min is...
City Navigator Lower 49 States NT 2009 + Topo
The road data may be the same though. It one more piece of the puzzle, and it's a piece that makes me think just buying the latest buggy data may not be the solution.
I agree with your assertion that 99% of the problems are user problems. For that I forgive them missing the details that I gave them on the first e-mail. From there I do feel they fell short. I understand that customer service can be a very trying job, but it's a vital piece that really can make or break how a customer feels about a company. When this GPS fails I will buy a new one, there is no question about that. So far Garmin hasn't really won me as a repeat customer.
I may give them a call after I've tried a couple of things and when I have time. This was a minor issue to me that I never would have contacted them about if not for this thread. Now I have this nasty after taste that just won't go away. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 04:18 pm: |
|
Navigator NT, not NY, but same thing
From what I understand mine has Canada while yours dosen't. The states themselves are the same version from what I can tell. You have topographical maps too, I don't know if they affect routing though.
(Message edited by froggy on August 16, 2010) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 04:42 pm: |
|
You also get Alaska. None of these things should affect the routing. You have a different model with a different operating system though. That could have an effect. I'm guessing Garmin has the equipment to simulate any model loaded with what ever versions they like. I just took care of 2 things on my wife's Triumph out in the garage. That's 2 things closer to caring about talking to Garmin CS. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 05:36 pm: |
|
So I deleted a BUNCH of PIOs and backed up and deleted all of my .gpx files thinking memory might be an issue in it's ability to calculate. It did my pet test route the same way. No luck.
Interestingly the estimated time has been cut from 3:46 down to 3:36. I just spent all Sunday riding about 450 miles with out my wife but with another riding buddy. We were making pretty good time all day long. It appears that what Froggy said about learning to estimate your ETA is probably true. I've wondered about that for a long time now having suspicions that it was doing that. I think that's pretty cool.
So I got a response to my last e-mail...
quote:Dear Tom Kandel,
Thank you for contacting Garmin International.
I'm not going to give you anything other than an honest answer. For the type of assurance you need, GPS device navigation isn't the way to go.
With Best Regards,
Rich C
Software Support Specialist
Software Team
Garmin International
913-397-8200
800-800-1020
913-440-8280 (fax) Att: Rich C, Associate #5683
www.garmin.com
While I always appreciate honesty, assurances could be as simple as if it doesn't fix your issues we can refund your money. I mean to Garmin we are talking about the cost of shipping a disk out. Maybe I'll give the a call tomorrow. I think I'll sleep on it. |
Iamike
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:12 pm: |
|
I bought a cheapie GPS from Radio Shack because I don't like that most of them that I looked at don't show their maps like a map looks like. I want one that shows the highways and county roads (within reason) while zoomed out.
The one thing I figured out real quick is the routing leaves a lot to be desired and it is not easy to change the preferences on the fly. I use a hand-held Magellan on my bikes but it isn't designed to do routing like the automobile ones are. But it looks more like a map that the auto ones.
I have heard good things about Garmin fixing GPS units that were damaged by other causes for no charge and giving updated maps at the same time. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:24 pm: |
|
Iamike, you mean a top down map vs the 3d angled ones? That can be changed in the options, I hate the 3d view.
Sifo, what I meant about the learning ETA is that it figures out your average speed for a certain road type and will display it accordingly. I tend to do 55-60mph on major highways, so the default ETA is always a few minutes earlier than my actual arrival time. After a while it figures this out, and now I arrive at work on time. Sometimes I have fun and see how much time I can beat the clock by, and shave half an hour off a normally 90 minute trip. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:32 pm: |
|
Yes, that's exactly what I thought was going on. I think it learned a new average for me from my ride on Sunday. Suddenly the Tinley Park to Effingham ride is 10 minutes faster, but the distance and turns are the same. That is a pretty cool feature.
EDIT: The 3D map views are terrible. You can also make the 2D map always point north or point the direction you are traveling.
(Message edited by SIFO on August 16, 2010) |
Iamike
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 10:54 pm: |
|
I don't use the 3-d because I like the map look (I also always orient North up). My wife prefers the 3-d when using the routing.
I have been told that it is a memory issue but I don't understand why major highways and towns disappear as I zoom out. My hand-held shows more map detail (even when I have selected highest detail) than most of the automobile GPS units do.
On my hand-held I have to load detail maps to get the minor roads so that might be part of the problem when I look at the demos in the store. But like Sifo says, I'm not about to spend that much money on something that doesn't work any better for me. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Monday, August 16, 2010 - 11:39 pm: |
|
Iamike, I'm not sure why but they are getting rid of detail like that when zooming out on the newer units. Pisses me off to no end, and is part of the reason none of the new Garmin's appeal to me. |
|
