| Author | Message | ||
     Squintz |
I know the non-compete clause expires in October, but how long after do you guy's think we'll have to wait for the 1190? I'm guessing summer 2011. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What's the latest date of homologation that will allow entry for competition in WSB? | ||
| Videoninja |
HD(spit) released Erik from the non compete clause a few months ago | ||
| Delta_one |
not soon enough | ||
| 07xb12ss |
who will sell/service these nationwide? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
BRP dealerships and a few interested HD dealerships | ||
| Court |
>>>>I know the non-compete clause expires in October Just curious as to HOW you know that? I've never heard any such thing. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"What's the latest date of homologation that will allow entry for competition in WSB?" WSB? Not sure about the date, but minimum build is 3000 bikes... For AMA, 30 days before the event it's to be entered in. From the homologation application for 2010: "2. Production and Importation Minimum Requirements AMA Pro Racing American SuperBike motorcycles must be street certified for use in the United States and be available at the time of competition through U.S. retail outlets as determined by the homologating manufacturer. There must be sufficient quantity available such that any AMA Pro Racing licensed competitor wanting to buy one for racing purposes can do so in a timely fashion. Each unit must be assembled or the chassis partially disassembled for shipping purposes only. Motorcycles must be available in dealerships by June 1st of the current season. After June 1st, manufacturers must maintain availability of models homologated for the current season for sale to any AMA Pro Racing licensed road race competitor until August 1st of the current season. This applies unless the manufacturer can supply documented proof that the units imported to the US as the minimum requirement were sold to North American customers before June 1st of the current season. 3. Sample Parts and Information The following items must be supplied to AMA Pro Racing by the manufacturer / distributor for technical identification purposes. The manufacturer / distributor is required to make all efforts possible to deliver the parts and information to the AMA Pro Racing office no later than 30 days prior to the first event that the new model will compete in. If the parts and information have not been delivered to the AMA Pro Racing within 30 days prior to the first event that the new model will compete in, the motorcycle used in competition may be impounded until they are available. A. One complete motorcycle with production VIN. B. Fully dimensioned drawings (same as FIM) with production tolerances of the following: Main frame Throttle body Crankcase Crankshaft Cylinder head Camshafts Fuel tank Fairing and bodywork C. Printed color photos approximately 8x10 inches showing both sides with and without bodywork, and front and rear with bodywork D. Factory service manual E. Factory parts list (hard copy) F. Factory sales brochures (2) Also, it is requested, but not required, that each manufacturer has available one additional street version of the homologated model for display and marketing purposes at each event." Full doc at AMA Forms BRP dealerships??? | ||
| Stirz007 |
BRP - Bombardier Recreational Products. Good Choice - Rotax, KTM, CanAm (will EB have to compete for floor space with RC8's?) | ||
| Trojan |
Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't H-D still own ALL of the rights to the 1125/1190 and other Buell platforms? If Erik wanted to build road going 1190 bikes I would have thought he would need to do some kind of deal with H-D to allow him to use 'his' patents etc? Also there is a world of difference between making a handful of race bikes by hand 9built from existing 1125 bikes) and producing a fully homologated, approved and tested road going bike that can be sold worldwide. This requires massive investment that would have to come from outside sources (which probably explains the drip fed teasers we keep seeing). I would love to see Buello start production of road bikes again, but I doubt it is going to be a simple mater of waiting until a non competition clause expires  | ||
| 2kx1 |
If he is able to use the existing chassis then it is already approved. The tooling is already there. If the 1190 motor is going to be used, and was far along enough in development it should also already be tested by epa. I do not think assembling bike is too difficult or expensive as I have seen what goes into a handbuilt moto by a local manufacturer. Perhaps they are just getting everything tested in racing environment in front of everyone right now. There are then the legalities to contend with. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
"Forgive me if I am wrong, but doesn't H-D still own ALL of the rights to the 1125/1190 and other Buell platforms? If Erik wanted to build road going 1190 bikes I would have thought he would need to do some kind of deal with H-D to allow him to use 'his' patents etc? " If he's using major components he already has (which were manufactured by BMC but now owned by Erik Buell Racing) there's nothing stopping him doing it. Similar to say Ruf building modified Porsches, or Magpul making Ronin 1125's. When they do get around to designing and making new frames, new brakes, new engines, who would be the person who best know's the way around those patents?  My take on it is this... Erik Buell Racing want's to keep racing and keep interest high, so they will build a small number of 1190RR street bikes for sale in the US. This will allow them, and hopefully some privateers too, to race in AMA Pro Superbike in 2011 and 2012, maybe even 2013. How many they build will depend a lot on what sort of number the AMA agrees is acceptable for homologation. I'm taking a punt it will be somewhere in the region of 25 to 50 bikes, as the AMA was happy with 50 1125RR's. I'm assuming it's not impossible to get a limited production DOT certification in the US for such a small number of bikes, though it wouldn't be cheap. Confederate and others can do it, so I don't see why it can't be done, though maybe it would only be 49-state. Maybe the street bikes would be equipped with things like stock 1125 mufflers to pass noise laws, but include a full race exhaust in the sale price. I'd take a guess the street bikes will have the race radiators and fairing, chain drive, big piston forks, and from what I read in another thread maybe even conventional front brakes. These bikes would allow Erik Buell Racing to keep racing while preparing for a new production model, but maybe they will be the last 1125-based bikes... | ||
| Trojan |
If he is able to use the existing chassis then it is already approved. The tooling is already there. I thought that all of the tooling and factory equipment had been sold off earlier this year? I may be wrong, but I think that the current race bikes are converted from existing 1125 road bikes, so to build new ones would be a lot more involving than just restarting a lapsed production process. Maybe there are a large enough number of new unsold 1125 bikes to allow him to rebuild/re-engineer sufficient volumes to qualify as a new 1190 bike? (This would get past all the homologation process as they are already passed). This is how NCR manage to make small volume production Ducati engined bikes after all. | ||
| Jaimec |
I don't think KTM uses Rotax engines... I believe they build their own. I could be mistaken. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
I believe you are right Jaimec, I am pretty sure KTM makes there own engines. Aprilia on the other hand does use some Rotax engines but they are even starting to build there own for there newer bikes. | ||
| Jaimec |
Right. The Aprilia V-Twins were Rotax-built. The new V4 is pure Aprilia, though. The BMW parallel twins are Rotax-built, but the singles are now Chinese-built Rotax clones from what I understand. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I thought that all of the tooling and factory equipment had been sold off earlier this year? Buell didn't manufacture the chassis. Buell didn't manufacture anything that I know of on the 1125R. They designed and engineered it and subcontracted all the parts. They then assembled the motorcycle. BMC's factory equipment, their in-house tooling was assembly/integration tooling, production line fixturing and a bunch of R&D shop equipment and engineering and production equipment. None of it was likely high dollar tooling required for production of parts or engines. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I thought that all of the tooling and factory equipment had been sold off earlier this year? From the auction list, everything in East Troy was righty tighty, lefty loosey stuff. THAT stuff is easy to replace. HD needs money. Licensing agreements bring money with little risk. | ||
| Lemonchili_x1 |
Check this out, speculation in the next issue of UK MCN: New Buell road bike in 2011 Erik Buell has vowed he will be back next year building road bikes based on his 185bhp V-twin 1190RR race bike. http://www.motorcyclenews.com/MCN/News/newsresults /General-news/2010/August/aug1010-new-mcn-august-1 1/ | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
I NEED TO READ THAT ARTICLE AND SEE THE PICS!!!! but how??? Jake | ||
| Trojan |
The article is interesting and encouraging, but there is one sentence which is pretty glibly glossed over amongst all the talk of the new model etc. Buell needs an investment of around US$7 million in order to make this happen. Without that it won't matter what the plans are unfortunately. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I don't think he will have any trouble drumming up $7M USD. The trick will be getting it from a the right source, and finding one that will share the vision. | ||
| Cliffburton |
7 Mill. No problem. Let me check my sofa cushion. | ||
| Firebolt020283 |
I wish they had an online version like cycleworld has. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Buell needs an investment of around US$7 million in order to make this happen. BadWeb MegaMillion/PowerBall pool?? | ||
| Hootowl |
I feel you bro, but lotteries are for people who can't do math. I don't think Erik will have any trouble at all coming up with 7 million dollars. He's probably got people banging on his door already. If I had 7 million dollars, I'd be doing my damndest to get in on the ground floor of this new company. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Fundraiser? I'll hop in the ring with Chuck Ladell for a chance to fund Buell return. I'm 5'4 and 145 pounds but enough Jack Daniels (liquid hillbilly) and I'll take him out. Or how about Ford partnership. SVT Firebolt please? | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
BOO +1000....a buell and ford partnership would be AWESOME...the ONLY 2 INDEPENDENT (non government funded) AMERICAN companies that are worth anything TOGETHER!!! WOOO, talk about unlimited funding  ....and then with BRP too.... ...yes i am dreaming but the possibilites would be ENDLESS!! Jake |
