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Strokizator
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Saturday I stopped by the local "Power Sports" dealer (Honda, Kawi, Yam, Suz, CanAm and Polaris) for a carburetor jet. I decided to take a tour and kick a few tires on my way back to the parts counter. Half way through the store was a huge display of Harley Davidson motorcycles. There were 32 of them, not counting a half dozen sportsters on the second floor. None was older than 2007 and they even had a couple of CVO models. They've got more HD's on the showroom than does the local HD dealer.

My first thought was that 32 different guys didn't all of a sudden decide they'd rather have a Honda, so what gives? Ahh, they bought all these at auction. This huge display is really just the tip of the iceberg of what must be a national phenomenon. This is just another iteration of the home mortgage fiasco; sell a bike to anyone who can make an "X" on the signature line and hope it all goes well. Except that it didn't.

Just like home building, it's going to be tough to sell a new HD when there's all these sweet low mileage, very cheap deals out there. Only saw 2 buells, a firebolt and cr1125. Apparently we are a saner bunch. Yeah I know, hard to believe.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yep. THIS is why HD is in trouble.
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Mnrider
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wow that dealer kicked out a bunch of money to stock those.
Hope it works out for 'em
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Babired
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yeah they put out a lot when the market was good and the quality gave in to Quantity from what I heard. The whole time Buell was making quality bikes HD was not up to par. big business lesson for them now it looks like they are going to lay off more people and the crap is still rolling down the hill
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Stirz007
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

You see quite a few Big Dogs and their clones showing up too. I know, they look cool (eyes of the beholder, I guess), but at $30K and up for a raked, stretched, fat rear tire, poor handling bike, it's no wonder they are starting to hit the repo and "unload" market. There are guys financing these things for 10 years - guess what? They don't get ridden after the first thrill wears off and then folks figure out that they can't afford them. (Check my profile - I'd like to swap the purple yerple for a 1125RR if someone would give me a decent price - until then, looks like I'll just hold on to it).
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Babired
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 12:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

if I got one of those Big dog bikes or an HD I would sell it and buy more Buells: )
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 01:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The really sad part is that the default bikes pose a double thread.

They credit side takes a hit on whatever the spread is between the auction price and what is owed.

The dealer side takes a hit in that the flood of used bikes cannibalizes new and used bike sales.
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Tpoppa
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

A dealer by me does the same thing. They buy lots of late model bikes at auction then sell on eBay. I assume most are repos.

They have lots of late model HDs on the floor. I bought a Kawasaki Z750s from them a couple months ago.
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Doug_s
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 01:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

"...Wow that dealer kicked out a bunch of money to stock those. ..."

or not...

doug s.
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Kc10_fe
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 04:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

MIlls HD went under here on Jul 31 after 50 years. Had a huge amount of bikes in the warehouse. Do those go back to HD? I bought my Softail from them. They didnt keep up with the HD palaces. Customer service kinda sucked on the best day.
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Jerry_haughton
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 05:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

yeah they put out a lot when the market was good and the quality gave in to Quantity from what I heard. The whole time Buell was making quality bikes HD was not up to par.

Babired, not sure what you've heard or where you heard it from, but the quality of modern-day Harley-Davidson motorcycles is actually quite good.

H-D's present difficulties are not as a result of building an inferior product.

Regards,
FB
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 05:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Agreed Jerry.

I've spent more time in the last year with HD products than ANY time before.

Quality has NEVER been higher. Buell quality was never in question either.
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Stirz007
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 05:09 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

+2. I started on H-D some 30 plus years ago (gawd has it really been that long ? - I should be dead by now). Quality definitely suffered during the AMF years, and I haven't owned a H-D newer than an 89, but they are about as dependable as bikes get these days. Most folks buying them now do not know how to fix them, so that's a good thing.
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Reepicheep
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 05:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Heck, my local pontiac (err, not Toyota) dealer has a big pile of them also, and they don't seem to be moving. They had a blue S3 with hard luggage as well.

The quality on Harley bikes really is top notch. And within the functional niche's that they target, they are generally better or equal to the best in the category. That's not the problem in their value proposition.
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1125rcya
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 06:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IM0
The Problem: Most young teens grow up riding crotch rockets because of the price range. If your first vehicle is a truck, and then your next one is a truck, you surely will feel awkward driving a car vice versa! I would have to say that HD hasn’t done enough to grab the youth and keep them as customers.
Let’s say HD kept Buell (FUHD; ) then their customer base would be more likely to buy HD, when the customer out grew his/her sport bike. I grew up ridding Suzuki dirt bikes and now the only type of dirt bike I will own and fill comfortable ridding is a Suzuki dirt bike. Why give a brand you’re not accustomed to a chance, when they did not give you one from the get go.
In the 21st century life is a big network, and when you are surviving off of tradition, you best not screw a group of your customers that talk $h1t.
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Etennuly
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

IM0
The Problem: Most young teens grow up riding crotch rockets because of the price range. If your first vehicle is a truck, and then your next one is a truck, you surely will feel awkward driving a car vice versa! I would have to say that HD hasn’t done enough to grab the youth and keep them as customers.
Let’s say HD kept Buell (FUHD then their customer base would be more likely to buy HD, when the customer out grew his/her sport bike. I grew up ridding Suzuki dirt bikes and now the only type of dirt bike I will own and fill comfortable ridding is a Suzuki dirt bike. Why give a brand you’re not accustomed to a chance, when they did not give you one from the get go.
In the 21st century life is a big network, and when you are surviving off of tradition, you best not screw a group of your customers that talk $h1t.


The problem with your theory is that a lot of us "mature" Uly riders have no plan to grow into a chrome couch.....another Uly for when I grow up please!

I know several former HD owners who had moved "down" to a Buell.....quite happily I might add. BUT.....would that not still have been a good thing for HD?
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Iamike
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 10:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I disagree about the youth shunning HD. I see quite a few riding them, as much or more than the sportbikes.

I have noticed a lot more Buells out and about the past year or two also. Had a red M2 pass me on the way from work today too.
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Andymnelson
Posted on Monday, August 09, 2010 - 11:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)


quote:

Only saw 2 buells, a firebolt and cr1125. Apparently we are a saner bunch




Actually....considering that Buell volume was typically between 3 and 4% of HD volume and over 6% of the bikes you saw were Buells....that would mean we are about 1/2 as sane.
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Stirz007
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 01:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I saw the numbers somewhere else on BW, can't remember, but H-D's sales to young market are strong - mostly Sportster variants, I think. I have seen a fair number of younger riders on relatively new Sportsters around these parts lately....
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Kc10_fe
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 01:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I work with many new and younger Airmen (under 30 crowd) and to them H-D is for fat old people. You might see 1 H-D for every 7 or 8 GSXRs, CBRs, or Busas on our small joint base compromised of Ft Dix, Lakehurst NAS and McGuire AFB.
H-D will never capture that market. Young dudes and chicks living a fast paced life want fast paced everything else. H-D has already lost enough to the market to the cheaper Suzuki Blvd. The old heads that owned H-D will still buy them except a VRod. The guys who are moving into the land yacht market are buying the cheaper and better looking Jap yachts.
The only new H-D Id buy would be a fatboy low and right off the bat you have to ditch the craptastic stock pipes, seat and the fork lowers. Thats $20K+ just starting.
Now that Im a douche bag Buell owner in my H-D dealers eyes from whom I bought a Softail from 6 years ago I cant find sympathy for them since they closed the doors on July 31st without finding a buyer.
Thats what you get for treating customers like butt.
H-D is now the old GM out of touch and Ideas

(Message edited by kc10_fe on August 10, 2010)
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Danger_dave
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 03:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Interesting hey. People still get older every year and there is a boom coming in retirement age people. The baby boomers are about to start their golden years.

Bit different down here too, my dealer is still selling 30 units a month and H-D are the number 2 selling brand over 650cc. Triumph third. Admittedly they were doing 50+ in the good times.

The neighboring Kawasaki shop has just closed, or is on the brink of closing.
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Babired
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 08:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Jerry I got that information from a guy working in an HD dealership that never sold Buells. They refused to sell them when the Buells where still with HD. It surprised me when he said it, and it kind of made since to me. The same guy told me the sale of HD bikes will go back to the old days were you had to order them and wait for 6 to 8 months. I kind of paralled it to the Toyota crap that happened when the market was good the demand went up and the quality went right out the door for quantity. I got a friend with a 2008 low rider and she followed me to Colorado and the bike ran great and has had no problems I don't know enough HD riders to know that there have been lots of recalls on the HD bikes , never the less it was interesting to hear from somebody who works for an dealership.
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Jerry_haughton
Posted on Tuesday, August 10, 2010 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Babired, thx for the reply.

I've owned and ridden Harleys for 27 years, on H-D's dating back to '76. These included a Big Twin Shovel, Sportster Evo, Big Twin Evo, and Ironhead Sportster. I currently ride an '06 Road King Twin Cam 88 that I bought new in April 2006.

I can tell you that H-D's current offerings are very well made, and every bit the equal of any other brand of motorcycle on the market when it comes to all-around performance, fit & finish, and reliability.

My RK turned over 47,000 miles this past weekend, and has been bullet-proof. I ask a lot from my motorcycles, and the RK has been good to me in this regard - I wouldn't hesitate to jump on it after I finish this post to you and ride it around the world.

Thx again for your reply.

Regards,
FB
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