| Author | Message | ||
     G234146 |
Did my 10k oil change yesterday. I was looking at good full synth oils on this site but couldnt make heads or tails out of a good switch. ...so I used Hardly Syn 3. I don't know why the heck I dropped even a penny on the same co. that shut down Buell. Last time I'll EVER do that again. ERIK BUELL! YE SHALL BE AVENGED!!!  | ||
| Bosh |
Ewwww... and that stuff is in your Buell right now. Yuck. I think the Syn 3 is actually pretty good oil though. I just won't pay the $12.00 a quart they're asking for it these days. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Synthetic oil is synthetic oil. As long as it's the right weight the name on the label doesn't matter. | ||
| G234146 |
...it's the principle of the thing... I got it for 10 bucks a qt. I think im going with Royal Purple or Mobil 1 V Twin next. They're about the same cost. | ||
| Greg_e |
There was another post about oil and apparently Mobile suggests the 4T oil in the transmission not the Vtwin. I have the Vtwin in mine 9R and it seems to work fine, might try the 4T next year in the transmission to see if there is a difference. Since the transmission is 1 quart, it makes it easy to try something else since you only need a single bottle. I should add that a large part of the decision to go with the Mobile oils was the ability to go to many local auto parts stores and grab what I needed. (Message edited by Greg_E on August 08, 2010) | ||
| Whatever |
Well it is a neccessary evil sometimes... forgive yourself and go ride...  | ||
| Slaughter |
My bigger problem with Syn3 is that it's directly supporting Hugo Chavez (it is a Citgo oil - a blend of synthetic/dino oils - and NOT a full synthetic) | ||
| Bads1 |
Slaughter, I use the stuff but for the life me wonder why Citgo was used instead of Mobil or.... ??? | ||
| Needs_o2 |
So, is the Formula+ some sort of special mix for the clutch or will other synthetics work as a substitute for the MoCo oil? | ||
| Stirz007 |
Buell runs Syn 3 in some of the race bikes. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
All synthetic oil is Dino oil based, just refined further. | ||
| Mnrider |
You have to use an oil like formula+ or something specified for wet clutches in the trans. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
High quality Group IV and Group V synthetic base stocks are built molecule by molecule in a laboratory- they are not derived from mineral oil. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
From http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_oil?wasRe directed=true Synthetic oil is a lubricant consisting of chemical compounds which are artificially made (synthesized) using chemically modified petroleum components rather than whole crude oil. | ||
| Ratbuell |
As long as it's the right weight Um...there's more to it than that. There's a whole UPI (I think that's what it's called, it's in the circle logo with all the writing on the labels) rating that includes things like viscosity, composition, temperature range, etc. etc... Your owners' manual also spells it out for you, very clearly. I run Syn3 in all our Buells. I'm not one who has to reinvent the wheel just 'because'. It works great, I have no engine failures / clutch failures / stator failures...so I keep using it. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
I use the syn 3 also, mainly cuz my sister got me a $50 gift card for a hd only dealer, and oil and coolant is all I could think of to buy from them. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Yes, that is what one section of Wikipedia says, but you can't always count on their information-gathering prowess. High quality Group IV base stocks are synthesized from pure chemicals in the lab. PAO (polyalphaolefin) is the most common synthetic polymer used and it is synthesized from ethylene gas (a man made organic compound made from ethanol and sulfuric acid). While there are lesser-quality Group IV "synthetic" base stocks made with ethylene derived from organic hydrocarbons, whether or not these should be considered true synthetics is another augment altogether. The highest quality, 100% fully-synthetic Group IV PAO based oils made by ethical, honest manufacturers are truly man made synthetic oils synthesized on the molecular level in a lab. Group V base stocks are ester based (esters are chemical compounds formed from a condensate of organic or inorganic acids and alcohol) and are the basis for all non-PAO synthetic oils. Wikipedia has good general information, but one must research further to get detailed, accurate information on most subjects. If you delve further into Wikipeida you will get closer to the correct answer- look up ethylene, ethylene gas, polyalphaolefin, and ester. A simple google search of Group IV or Group V synthetic oil will also provide better information- Mobil has some very helpful info online. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Here we go...  | ||
| 86129squids |
"ERIK BUELL! YE SHALL BE AVENGED!!!" "I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die."  | ||
| Damnut |
Amsoil | ||
| Nukeblue |
as i understand it, "synthetic oil" just uses the best premium base oil & has some x-tra additives. someone once told me there is three grades of base oil, and they use the best for syn | ||
| Fuzzz |
The great debate..... | ||
| Tiltcylinder |
My understanding was that synthetics were made by breaking (cracking) the bonds holding longer (unsuitable for straight use as engine oil) molecules together. Producing shorter (smaller) more uniform oil molecules... one of the reasons it seems to leak out a bit easier. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Wow, there's a lot of misinformation out there. The "great debate" is a waste of time and energy- fully synthetic lubricants are superior to mineral-based lubes, and the highest quality synthetic base stocks are not derived from petroleum (organic hydrocarbons). These are the facts, and if you doubt it you just need to do better research. The technology of refining mineral oil by hydrocracking produced the first Group II base oils. More recently hydroisomerization technology produced Group III base oils, and these are very close in quality to Group IV PAO-based synthetic base oils. As stated above, Group IV PAO can be manufactured using ethylene gas refined from organic hydrocarbons (petroleum) instead of synthesizing it in a lab, but this is a cost-cutting measure used by manufactures more interested in the bottom line than making a 100% synthetic product. The only manufacturers I'm aware of that market 100% fully synthetic PAO oils are Mobil and Amsoil, along with those that market 100% ester (Group V) oils like Motul, ELF, and Silkolene. I have not found any proof that anyone else is currently producing purely synthetic, man-made oils- but there very well could be. The real issue here is the ability to label an oil "synthetic" based upon the amount of effort it takes to make it instead of whether or not it actually contains 100% synthetic ingredients. I side with those that believe it must be 100% synthetic in order to be labeled 100% synthetic. The next step for Group III is base oils derived from natural gas in the gas-to-liquid (GTL) process which produces a very high quality base stock known as "Super-Group III". These will replace current Group III base oils and perform side-by-side with PAO Group IV oils. Technology never stands still, and lubricant performance will continue to improve- which is good for all of us. Tiltcylinder, I can go into detail about long-strand PAO molecules if you'd like, but the short answer is that it's the superior detergency and molecular uniformity that can cause "leaks" when synthetic oils replace mineral oils in some engines. If the engine has wear that is being "masked" as a result of impurities/contaminates in the oil (sludge), it is possible for the synthetic detergents to remove the deposits which allows the oil to reach the areas of wear which can result in a "new" leak. Of course, it's not a "new" leak, rather an existing issue that was being masked by the inferior oil. Anyone who discovers a leak after switching to synthetic oil should thank the syn oil for informing them of the defect in their engine. | ||
| Gunut75 |
"I am Inigo Montoya. You killed my father. Prepare to die." Will you stop saying that?  | ||
| Pkforbes87 |
Valvoline VR1 in the engine Formula+ in the tranny The VR1 has a CD rating instead of the service manual recommended ratings of CF, CG, CH, or CI - the difference being the year that the ratings were obtained. The CD rating is from 1959 and as a result, does not have to meet current EPA requirements. That means higher levels of zinc which is great at protecting basically everything in the valvetrain. Especially OHV valvetrains. NOTE: Valvoline specifically advertises that VR1 IS NOT recommended for use in wet clutches. Also, avoid the non-street legal VR1 racing oil - It doesn't contain detergents. | ||
| Blasterd |
I couldn't do it last oil change, I ended up buying Drag Specialities oil. | ||
| Fuzzz |
Pkforbes87, +1! 30 yrs-250K of VR1 in my 93" shovel, 9 yrs-70K so far in my 00 Cyclone, and when I ride with any other 45 air cooled V-twin, my engine is cooler and quieter, regardless of how much they spend on their synthetic oil. Ya'll can use what ya want, and spend what ya want, individual results may vary...:-) | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
The cheapest, lowest-quality mineral oil you can find will provide you with a lifetime of trouble-free motoring if you change it before it starts to break down. Oil analysis shows that mineral oil starts to break down around 2,000 miles and needs to be replaced by about 3,000 miles on average. It is also more susceptible to break down just from sitting due its impurities and reactions from contaminates and moisture/condensation. This is where the "3 month/3,000 mile" mantra came from- the useful life of mineral oil. Change it often, and you'll be fine. However, for those who want to extend the service interval and use the highest quality oil available, there is synthetics. Yes, it costs more to purchase synthetic oils, but because they provide superior protection for up to three times longer than mineral oil- you will spend less. Other than the price on the bottle, there is not a single aspect of mineral oil that is better than synthetics. It truly is a case of "pay more, spend less" when you use synthetic oil- the choice is yours. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
It's not the oil,it's the lifestyle. The best oil you can buy will not make up for contaminates caused by your style. Short hops = contaminates. Shut downs before cool down and you just fried the oil in the top end with hot soaking = contaminates. Racing extremes = contaminates. Healthy engine,long rides = minimal contaminates.  | ||
| Slaughter |
I use synthetic ATF for the slipper clutch and that just has me wondering HOW it'd work with the stocker. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
Just ziptab- Yes and no. Yes, how you ride directly affects your oil. No, not all oils react the same to riding style.. For example, mineral oil contains impurities and contaminates that are affected/exacerbated by riding style. Short duration use, hot shut downs, and track use (hard running followed by extended periods of sitting) create conditions that both produce contaminates (combustion by-products, metals, moisture, etc...) and react with the impurities already present in the oil to accelerate breakdown of the oil and wear in the engine. Synthetic oils do not have the naturally-occurring impurities of mineral oil, and combined with a quality additive package (anti-oxidant and anti-corrosion esters, detergents, etc... ) they actually combat the contaminates created by combustion. This means the choice of oil can actually help mitigate the effect of riding style and that helps reduce engine wear. Again, unless you change mineral oil very frequently, synthetic oil is the better choice. (Message edited by Redbuelljunkie on August 10, 2010) |
