| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketsprink |
Your meaning varies greatly from the actual meaning "An excessive desire to acquire or possess more than what one needs or deserves, especially with respect to material wealth" | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Who determines need? Who determines deserve? I have too much because YOU say I do? That isn't greed. That's envy. There is a difference. | ||
| Court |
I hope Obama never "helps" me.
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| Rocketsprink |
Just the facts, as Blake would like it. Fact is, that's the meaning of greed. You don't get the privilege to twist it to mean what suits your point of view. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Nor do you. Specifically where in the Constitution is the Federal Government granted the power to determine when someone has more than they "need or deserve" or to remedy the situation should such a determination be made? Did Warren Buffett acquire his wealth illegally or immorally? Is he "greedy"? What about Steve Jobs? Oprah? Shaq? You have more that someone else. Maybe it's more than you "need or deserve" as perceived by someone without. Are you "greedy"? | ||
| Moxnix |
Ask us in a couple of years where in the Constitution, etc. It may well be there by then. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Gentleman_jon, why did you think you would never say that? I'm not asking insincerely, I'd really like to know. Back when I first started in business in the 1960's, the CEO's considered themselves to be a sort of trustee of the public, the shareholders, and the employees. The understood that they were not the owners of the company, but the caretakers. As a result, even though they were well paid, the equity remained with the company, and the executives were not rich in the sense that they are today. That changed when the leveraged buyout was invented, and the baby boomers hit the scene. and ways were discovered to transfer a public company's equity to it's managers. This turned them into a sort of new robber baron class. | ||
| Doug_s |
this is 100% cut-n-paste from another somewhat contentious thread...  regarding executive compensation, this is not a new problem. it is one reason why i won't buy a car made by a corporation headquartered in america. i remember, back in 1992, when america had trade tariffs against japanese imported cars. (which only hurt the middle class, making all cars more expensive. beneficial to the rich car execs and rich stockholders, tho.) then-prez george hw bush organized a trade "junta" to japan to discuss the state of the world auto industry. (this was the trip made famous when prez george hw bush puked in the lap of japan's prime minister kiichi miyazawa at a formal state dinner.) at these meetings, then-chrysler-ceo lee iacocca chastised then-toyota-ceo shoichiro toyoda for its "unfair trade practices", (which, basically were producing superior products for less money.) mr toyoda countered that maybe management practices were the reason, not "unfair trade practices": he queried mr iacocca as to why iacocca earned 15 million dollars the past year, when chrysler had registered one of its worst years ever at that time, losing >one billion dollars; when, during the same period, toyota had the most profitable year in the history of the company, and mr toyoda earned $800,000. iacocca also criticized the japanese for "not hiring americans" when they built all those cars. well, he can eat his words there, too. especially considering all the outsourcing done by the american manufacturers. you do the math. you decide which car to buy. doug s. | ||
| Dbird29 |
I blame all those '60s hippies that got greedy.  | ||
| Reepicheep |
How about...
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| Rocketsprink |
So it's Okay for some one, say, like Wandell to shut down a company, and a few months later get paid millions of dollars? That's what greed get's you. As long as your on the receiving end of the greed, I guess it's cool, as some seem to think. But if your on the other end, tough shit for you. Buell was nonunion, yet H-D said they were loosing their a$$ because of them. Are you blaming the Buell employees? Erik? Jon Flickinger? Who? | ||
| Whatever |
I blame Wandell. Why? Because he is a dickless wonder. Next time he comes to Madison, I hope I find out about it much sooner, as by 10 AM this morning I was too late to go over to the local Hardley dealership and wave my full size Buell flag. Anyone know if you can get one of those flag holders for the back of an XB?  | ||
| Trackdad |
I just find it very hypocritical of big business in this day and age. Spend tons of cash to eliminate or reduce something, make employees lives miserable, re-negotiate contracts, cry about how rough their lives are and in the process reap bigger benefits in a short time than most normal people make in their life time. Custodians of the company, yes, that's the way it started. But today its' all about "me" and •••• you! Personally I couldn't their job because I wouldn't sleep at night figuring I'd have a target on my back. Most smart business leaders look to improve the quality of the workforce, provide a better product and increase the business plan, I don't see too many bright leaders rising to the top, just more bottom feeders. | ||
| Iamike |
Yeah the guy calls us greedy while his wife is spending $375,000 of our money to vacation in Europe. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Pretty stupid on her and his part, yes. What does that have to do with H-D moving out of Milwaukee and all the union worker bashing? | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Yea guys what does the first ladies extravagant vacation on the heels of a recession have to do with poor sales and economic growth of a major US manufacturer. Never mind the mantra of the lefts sticking up for the poor and down trodden. Liberals like clockwork are showing themselves to be hypocrites. Use less and conserve more unless you are one of the elite liberal politicians. ••••• that bullshyt. You have no right to tell me how much I should spend or how much I should make. This class warfare is caving in around your foundation. | ||
| Swampy |
Of those 390 new jobs in Ole' Mexico, how many of them will be buying this new Government Motors 8 cylinder vehicle? They (GovMo) has been building vehicles in Mexico for years and shipping them here. I had a 1500 chevy made in mexico and a suburban made in canudia. All I need now is a H-D(spit) made in Bollywood. | ||
| Ceejay |
but you bought it, right? We can jump up and down all we want-bitch and bicker at one another about who should be making what, when the issue is completely clouded. We buy cheap shit from folks who don't give a damn about where they throw the stuff they don't want anymore, you know what? We did it too! Those countries-china, mexico, india, are going through thier own industrial age, just as we did 60 yrs ago. The cuyahoga caught fire, Pittsburgh was the place to be-if you could stand the smoke, and detroit was booming. What's different now? We say we care more than we used to, Detroit is a ghost town, and we somehow expect every other country to learn from our mistakes or at least listen to us when we tell them to. I'm not a pro 2008 guy, but this has been coming for quite some time. Do I think our current admin has made it worse-hell yes! They've no right to continually pin this on the previous admin, and more importantly need to look at things from a real standpoint of here we are, lets do something about it(other than spend more money-because as I see it they've just created more govt-shifting the power curve a little more towards the high end). When you continually point fingers though how will you get anything done? Which is where the problem with the Union comes in. They(H-D) need those workers, those workers need H-D. The accountants have already figured out how much they will have to spend to retrain, relocate, and reallocate. Has the union? I'm sorry but they need to get a few accountants on thier payroll and do some numbers. This isn't rocketscience here. Am I a union basher, NO. Am I tired of hearing folks that are making 34 dollars an hour complain because they didn't get a 5% increase in salary-YES. I know PHD's that don't make that much-sorry about thier luck? Sure, and they say the same thing when workers band together demand more and more and more, and then thier company goes away. Economics is simple, the problem comes in when people place emotion on it, or the govt. gets involved... | ||
| Swampy |
Let me correct.....I had, not I bought......my own personal philosophy is that I refuse to spend more on a VEHICLE than what it is worth. And yes, America is the greatest country in the world, no where else will there be an industrial age like what we had, we had horrible work conditions, low wages, child labor, but now look at our standard of living. But when the industrial age comes to other countrys like mexico, will the people have the ability or means to be able to change their work conditions, or will their gubiment prevent them from doing so because their gubiment finds it mmore lucritive to have a nation in bondage and slavery to the gubiment. You have to admit that it almost seems like in this post-industrial America we are headed for slavery as our gubiment taxes us and spends into oblivion seemingly like a ship in a storm with no el capitan at the helm. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
Just so you know Ceejay, when talks of layoffs at Harley started about 2 years ago, the union members wanted to work with Harley, including pay cuts and unpaid time off, but Harley just wanted to reduce head count and wouldn't listen. Even before the layoffs, the union accepted concessions of 2 tier wages, among others. I don't like unions either, and in the news you usually hear of unions being "greedy" with ridiculous demands or not approving a contract and the company leaves, but it isn't the case here. Of course, with the new contract pending, we will shall see. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Amen CeeJay! | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Its tough out there for everyone. Well not everyone: Material girl Michelle Obama is a modern-day Marie Antoinette on a glitzy Spanish vacation Andrea Tantaros Sacrifice is something that many Americans are becoming all too familiar with during this economic downturn. It was a key theme in President Obama's inaugural address to the nation, and he's referenced it numerous times when lecturing the country on how to get back on its feet. But while most of the country is pinching pennies and downsizing summer sojourns - or forgoing them altogether - the Obamas don't seem to be heeding their own advice. While many of us are struggling, the First Lady is spending the next few days in a five-star hotel on the chic Costa del Sol in southern Spain with 40 of her "closest friends." According to CNN, the group is expected to occupy 60 to 70 rooms, more than a third of the lodgings at the 160-room resort. Not exactly what one would call cutting back in troubled times. Reports are calling the lodgings of Obama's Spanish fiesta, the Hotel Villa Padierna in Marbella, "luxurious," "posh" and "a millionaires' playground." Estimated room rate per night? Up to a staggering $2,500. Method of transportation? Air Force Two. To be clear, what the Obamas do with their money is one thing; what they do with ours is another. Transporting and housing the estimated 70 Secret Service agents who will flank the material girl will cost the taxpayers a pretty penny. Perhaps it could be that the Obamas, who seem to fancy themselves more along the lines of international celebrities than actual leaders, espouse a different view of sacrifice. When Michelle Obama accompanied her husband to Copenhagen along with best buddy Oprah Winfrey, she billed the trip - an ultimately unsuccessful bid to bring the Olympics to Chicago - as follows: "As much of a sacrifice as people say this is for me or Oprah or the President to come for these few days, so many of you in this room have been working for years to bring this bid home." A quick jaunt to Denmark is a sacrifice? What portraits in courage! The Obama modus operandi is becoming clear. From lavish trips to Spain to reportedly flying Bo, the President's Portuguese water dog, on a separate aircraft to vacation with them in Maine, to a date night in New York City that perhaps cost nearly $100,000, their idea of austerity is really just the lap of luxury, at least for ordinary folks. Incredibly, the Obamas have long portrayed themselves as precisely such commoners. Just this month, Obama told ABC the First Couple is "not that far removed from what most Americans are going through." And that "it was just a few years ago that we had high credit card balances, we had two kids, thinking about college. We had our own retirement accounts, wondering if we were going to be able to get enough assets in there." If that's true, why not select a more appropriate destination like the California coast? The scenery is just as gorgeous as that of Spain, and instead of patronizing a foreign country they would be pumping money into an American economy that desperately needs it. Camp David wouldn't exactly be slumming it, either. A long weekend there would really send a message of responsibility, leadership and compassion. For a couple that has sharply criticized former President George W. Bush so widely, they could stand to follow his example for once and select a more low-key locale, as Bush regularly did in his Texas vacations. Instead, Michelle Obama seems more like a modern-day Marie Antoinette - the French queen who spent extravagantly on clothes and jewels without a thought for her subjects' plight - than an average mother of two. While she's spent her time in the White House telling parents they should relieve their chubby kids' dependency on sugar and stressing the importance of an organic veggie garden, hopping a jet to Europe to meet with Spanish royalty isn't the visual the White House probably wants to project. Perhaps they've forgotten the damning image of John Kerry, on the eve of the 2004 election, windsurfing off the coast of Nantucket? I don't begrudge anyone rest and relaxation when they work hard. We all need downtime - the First Family included. It's the extravagance of Michelle Obama's trip and glitzy destination contrasted with President Obama's demonization of the rich that smacks of hypocrisy and perpetuates a disconnect between the country and its leaders. Toning down the flash would humanize the Obamas and signify that they sympathize with the setbacks of the people they were elected to serve. In January, President Obama insisted that "everybody in the country is going to have to sacrifice something, accept change for the greater good. Everybody is going to have to give. Everybody is going to have to have some skin in the game." If sacrifice is the precursor to change, what will the family that ran on change offer up? Elitist doublespeak won't cut it. Tantaros (andrea@andreatantaros.com) is a weekly contributor to the New York Daily News opinion section. She is a corporate communications professional who was formerly a Republican campaign strategist. http://www.nydailynews.com/opinions/2010/08/04/201 0-08-04_material_girl_michelle_obama_is_a_modernda y_marie_antoinette_on_a_glitzy_spanish.html | ||
| Court |
>>>>I refuse to spend more on a VEHICLE than what it is worth. Just the guy I've been looking for . . .  Which is the better value? PORSCHE - Cayman still in the #1 quality position, great mileage and so forth for $52,000. FORD - F150 Platinum just arrived, for the first time ever, in the #5 spot, is a great vehicle for about $53,922. Just curious. What's "worth it?" What about a person who saved their company $3,000,000 in uncovering engineering errors are they worth 15% of what they saved the company? Is $430,000 to much to pay an engineering specialist? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Depends. Is there someone who thinks someone who earns $430,000 is earning too much? There is someone in the office who feels that anyone who makes more than $250,000 earns too much. | ||
| Bads1 |
PORSCHE - Cayman still in the #1 quality position, great mileage and so forth for $52,000. How is that??? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
So raising the tax rate from 35% to 39% will break the bank? I vote to go back to 74%!! | ||
| Court |
I think ( not sure) it's their 5th consecutive year in the #1 slot. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
What about a person who saved their company $3,000,000 in uncovering engineering errors are they worth 15% of what they saved the company? Is $430,000 to much to pay an engineering specialist? Details man,details. I wonder if a bunch of us 'low buck' dummies here could see what was wrong? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
So raising the tax rate from 35% to 39% will break the bank? I vote to go back to 74%!! Tax rate drives behavior. Yes, moving from 35% TO 39% could break the bank when the tax increase is on top of all the other taxes being levied. The tax increases manifest in higher prices and lower salaries for workers. Wonder where that 4% increase in salary is? Check with Uncle Sam. | ||
| Bads1 |
Court, Thing is though the other auto makers produce many many more car and SUV's then Porsche does I'd think more room for defect no ?? |
