| Author | Message | ||
     Raceautobody |
The closing of Buell was a calculated loss to gain leverage over the union. Harley management would not have this much power over the union if the 200 non union Buell workers were still working. Selling Buell was not an option because that would have just prolonged the fight with the union. Harley will get its way just like in York, no strike and a reduced union labor force, they will stay in Milwaukee until the next labor contract. Their goal looks like is to have a vastly smaller union labor force in the US and when the economy turns around they will quickly open new plants over seas. | ||
| Bads1 |
Jeremy, Taxes have something to do with it... yes. But remember,they aren't talking about moving headquarters. So here in Wisconsin they would have to pay the taxes for the one per say in Florida here as well as there. Wanna save they'd have to move completely. Doyle F'd that up for us. I can't wait till hes gone in January. See HD pays taxes twice.... pretty cool hey?? They do it at the my bar. Vending company owns the pool table,juke box,dart boards and such. I get a good percent of it every other week. The vending company take the tax out. Then quarterly taxes are paid. Guess what Wisconsin gets us again for the same games and jukebox. HD gets to pay twice too. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd say that if they move the plant, they'll move the HQ as well. | ||
| Bads1 |
They will not do that... trust me. They said they'd move production and leave headquarters here all along. (Message edited by bads1 on August 04, 2010) | ||
| Bads1 |
We just went through the same crap with Mercury outboard. We'll see. I pray for the workers but in no way will I ever buy one of them. Never have liked them. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
They said Any trust any of they any farther than you could throw them?  | ||
| Swampy |
Bollywood! Hindu divas! FU H_D(spit) It will eventually catch up with them. I have been spreading the word about the move to india. | ||
| Odie |
Yea Rocket....come on to the deep south. The very same union that I am in is the same one the Harley workers are in. They don't give one crap about their members. "They" think they know what's better for the members than the members themselves. Sorta like our awesome government. Unions suck. The only people that prosper from the unions is the upper level union losers. I'd like to see where my $60 a month in dues really goes. Get's retards like Obama elected I guess. My job couldn't get farmed out to anybody unless you know how to fly uh-60's, have at least 3000 UH-60 hours, and are a maintenance officer. I was smart enough to acquire skills that don't need a union to ensure I get a decent wage. Come on down....... | ||
| Glitch |
I'd like to see where my $60 a month in dues really goes. You haven't played the golf course?  | ||
| Odie |
HA! No golfing for me. Too busy working my butt off 21 hours a day...... | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I don't know what the hell goes on in union meetings,but something brainwashes the members enuf that I can tell a lot of folks that I deal with ,that I don't know....'work union'....... just by their personality in after hours settings. They leave and I ask......does he work for a union? Yes. I have union friends and I know their plan before they make a move. It's all about "What's in it for me". Volunteer work.....as little as possible to get the same rewards as the rest. I pinned two different guys as union members,just by the way they walk. How can that be? | ||
| Ustorque |
Wow, nothing cracks me up more then the union bashing threads around here! Makes the 1125 area seem like the smart place to hang out. I have never commented on any union talk on BadWeb before, But Ziptab That last post could be one of the most personally offensive things i've seen on here. If you do have Union "friends" that have that attitude, it doesn't say much for you being their "friend". | ||
| Gunut75 |
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| Fast1075 |
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| Xl1200r |
Yes Dana. It isn't the Unions fault. It's shit management. Why can't people get it through their thick skulls? It couldn't possibly be both. Management decisions suck. No question. 18 year old kids are getting far too much to turn a few bolts. Just sayin'. Around here, we have a lot of state workers, most are in a union. State workers are notorious for being unproductive. I am close friends with a number and they will openly admit that this is the case. In fact, the one was told to "slow down, you're making the rest of us look bad" by a higher up when he moved from the private sector to the state. None of them can get fired flat out because of the Union. Things are tightening up now - the state's budget is a mess and they are forcing attrition - many people are taking retirement and no one is filling their shoes and the employees that are left are learning what an honest day's work is all about. Am I saying all union workers are lazy? Not at all. What I'm saying is Unions habitually have gotten pay checks far too high and given far too much protection to folks who don't deserve it. Unions don't give a rat's ass about their members - they as much in it for the power as the management they claim to combat. As a New York State employee, you have an option to join the union or not. If you join, you pay monthly dues and get all the benefits of the Union. If you elect not to join, you don't get any of the benefits but you still are forced to pay the monthly dues - they come right out of your paycheck before it gets to you. This isn't too much power? (Message edited by xl1200r on August 04, 2010) | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I can't stand the Union bashing by all the fuking idiots here. If you want to make shit for pay, move to China. Why oh why is it ALWAYS the workers fault? Why do workers always have to settle for less while upper management just keeps raking in the cash? It couldn't be from poor management. Nope. Gotta be the workers. Seems a lot here are content with letting the rich get richer while the workers gets screwed. I don't understand. Are you all millionaires? Are you upper management? If you're an average, everyday employee, better watch out. What you hope for may happen to your job. Maybe they'll shitcan you for some cheap labor. Then I bet your piss poor attitude will change. Why should other lower themselves to your pay rate. Wouldn't it be nicer to elevate yours? Maybe YOU'RE not worth it? Must not be. Good bye Wasnt buellgrrl from Wisconsin too? If HD moves its because of people like buellgrrl and rocketpink. Those two miserable mother effers could drive anyone out of the state. Go procreate yourself rockettaint. | ||
| Bartimus |
I've worked for unions most of my life. Started off in the Aerospace and machinist union (IAM) when I worked at NASA for 12 years, then the electrical workers union, (IBEW) for another 10 years, and currently working for an aluminum can plant that is covered by the steelworkers union, (USW). Here in Arizona, it is a right to work state, and they can't "force" anyone to join the union. So, half the workforce is union, and half is not. The union is still required to support the non-union members even though they don't pay dues. Is that fair? Who voted for that? I remember my younger years, when I was an apprentice, the union was all about providing an educated and skilled workforce for a premium wage with good benefits. I worked hard, and learned my trade(s). First becoming a machinist, then an electrician. My skills have always brought me a good wage, regardless of who I'm working for, and regardless of whether or not I'm protected by a union. I've seen some real worthless workers, both in and out of the unions. And I've also seen some real smart folks both in and out of the unions that really busted their ass to get the job done. Diehard union members remind me alot of Harley(spit) riders. They blindly follow along believing that they are part of the greatest thing on earth, because they honestly don't know better. I've worked for some great non-union companies that paid me well, and provided good benefits, I'm currently working for a bad company, with a weak union, that pays well, and provides average benefits. Sometimes it's a roll of the dice, it's always YOUR choice whether or not you wish to continue working for any company. there is ALWAYS another job around the corner if you have marketable skills. Sorry if my opinions gets anyones panties in a bunch, but it's just my 2 cents. Take it with a grain of salt, folks... | ||
| Joshinga |
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| Bikertrash05 |
The union at Harley and the company have made up this "partnering" buzzword, and it basically means what the company wants, the company gets. Working for Harley used to be THE job to have. I got in towards the end of the good times, and got to see it turn around. Management added a long list of new "rules" which were not needed, nor would they accept any debate on the rules, and it turned into just another factory job where the workers are just numbers. It was almost like they were actively trying to lower moral, and I am not joking. One example, when the new assembly line was put in at Pilgrim Road plant. The old assembly line periodically had problems occur which halted production and stopped the line. The workers would then sit until it got going again. This was even in HD's own ergonomics policy about how standing in one place for a long time was bad, and to sit once in a while. So with the new line, management said they were not going to allow chairs. Boy, did it hit the fan! During this chair debate, which lasted a few weeks, the employees had a harassment meeting. One of the scenarios was about management using their power to harass a lower employee, and during the Q&A, someone brought up the point that not allowing chairs was a form of harassment. I think that might have been the turning point, and we got chairs, but they tried to put strange rules on when we could use them. This IS because of shit management, and not the workers. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Ustorque,not only are they friends,they are good friends for neart 40 years.......I've just hardened myself to get used to them taking advantage of situations.It's always..."I drove last time" or "it's your turn to buy".........like they are broke, regardless that they have twice the disposable income than me. (Both married to working wives,both with kids completely on their own)They are not bad people,just pretty selfish. On the other hand,my best friends are like me........Me? I don't care if I drove or bought the last three times. We take advantage of what works best for all involved ,not what works best for ones self.I'm generous and at the end of the day,I still pay all my bills. | ||
| Blake |
Party at Ziptab's!!!  Rocco, I can't say it any better than Bart, and his cred on the issue is huge. You aren't a member of one of the giant labore unions, are you? Are you not in a trade union specifically for sprinkler installers? Your knee jerk tirade is unbecoming, and the personal insults are way out of line. I know for fact that the real Rocco is so much better than that. The news shows by Fox News are as unbiased as they get. That's not opinion, it is as reported by more than one independent non-partisan study. I doubt you've ever watched them, Shep Smith at 5 and Bret Baer at 6 p.m. Stop parroting propaganda of the haters. It holds zero sway in a thoughtful discussion, and is just plain lame. Same goes for the silly threats. We all know how much you really love all of us. | ||
| Kc10_fe |
9% of the US workforce is now union. Thats a very small percentage. Blaming the unions for destroying America makes as much sense as a news article today that blamed the drowning of some kids in the South on segregation. Next up youll be blaming 9-11 on the US military. As much as it sucks to say this, everyone is at fault. 60+ years of super productivity and the very best quality of life is whats made us the fattest bunch of pricks on this sphere. Sitting around with our noses in the air for decades has soured the worlds opinion on the cradle of democracy. Fox or CNN makes no difference. If you need a news channel to guide your morality youre already lost amongst the crowd of an America that has losts its identity and way over the past XX years. Maybe its over for us. China owns 1 of every 10 dollars. Russia Britian and Chavez Inc own a huge amount of your gas stations. Your bank brewery and grocery store is probably half owned by a foreign nation. Your children and mine wont have a work ethic that was anything close to the greatest generation because everything is being farmed out to cheap exploited nations for 5 cents on the buck. When Obama care kicks in and taxes + utilities go up 15 - 20%, what going to happen? What do you think youll have left over for Disney World with the family when a VAT of 10- 15% is added on what we already pay on a purchase. Taxes in Europe are a bitch and thats the way we are headed. Maybe Im crazy and youre all the last sane folks on earth.  67 countries & 600 cities traveled flying for the USAF. Union Elevator Constructor I must be one of THEM | ||
| Cyclonedon |
I'm sure it's got to be the fault of the unions, you know them, the working class Americans. It couldn't possibly be the CEO's greed that is causing the problems now could it? BTW, the company I work for just paid our old CEO 207 million severance pay for his destruction of our company. I also make exactly $4.00 per hour less, doing the same job that I did 10 years ago. That certainly is progress don't you think? while we're at it does anyone else have any good ideas on how we can finish off the American work force? I think we've done a pretty good job of shipping our manufacturing jobs overseas. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
I also make exactly $4.00 per hour less, doing the same job that I did 10 years ago. That certainly is progress don't you think? You say that as if you were forced to take a job making less. As for ideas for finishing off the American work force I'll give you two good ones: -value added tax -cap and trade bill | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Higher taxes on the wealthy will GUARANTEE the destruction of the lower and middle classes. There will simply be "donor class" and "recipient class". In a generation, there will just be "recipient class". If you are making the same or less money 10 years down the line in the same job,it's probably a sign that you are becoming less economically viable. Economic viability is the responsibility of the worker NOT the employer. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
9% of the work force is unemployed meh 1,613,656 prisoners meh '42' million illegal immigrants meh 9% of the work force is unions meh over 50% pay no federal tax meh 63 BILLION US dollars overseas for 'Global health initiative" 2 Trillion in Obama care.... at what point do you realize that each is as troubling as the one before it, and the total picture is a queezy uneasy feeling | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Having been in a contract negotiation meeting room, I can tell you anyone who blames the union for workers making "too much money" is, no offense, ignorant. Companies don't hand the unions a blank check. A union can't get what the company won't give. The hd issues iirc seem to stem from the business decisions that were made, primarily on the finance side. A guy bolting chrome on a geezer glide has no say so in who they give loans to. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
spent 18+ years with the carpenters union. have 2 small pensions coming from that time. for me it was a means to an end but became a very good carpenter because of the apprenticeship and the people that i worked around. with that being said, i dropped out of the union some 9 years ago because of not only the support that i didn't get from my so called brothers but also the the employers who would bitch about the union carpenters that they had, but would do nothing about it when i told them to get rid of the dead weight. one job i had was at a mall here in tampa where a lot of work was being subcontracted out to non union companies(we were there for support and safety only doing piddly stuff). when i made an effort to try and get the general contractor to give us more work, my supervisor tried to get me fired and brought the business manager down to make this happen. it back fired and a few of them got canned instead but they put a guy that i had trouble with while on the night shift in his place instead and things went back to status quo. it wasn't long after that, that i quit but the union was given the concrete work for the new theater on that job so at least something came out of it in the long run. went to the next job and went to the business manager about a safety issue and he told me that i should be grateful that i had a job. i used to be a union advocate, but not anymore. they need to get back to their grass roots and as far as management goes, i hope some of these overpaid douchebags choke on their own greed. especially people like wandell. | ||
| Brumbear |
Maybe Victory or BRP or whoever ends up with Buells could buy the plant and the NEW BUELLS could be made there that would be great!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Rainman |
The news shows by Fox News are as unbiased as they get. That's not opinion, it is as reported by more than one independent non-partisan study. I doubt you've ever watched them, Shep Smith at 5 and Bret Baer at 6 p.m. Stop parroting propaganda of the haters. Blake, I respect you man, but I have to disagree on FOX news. I put it to the test at the last State of the Union, with three televisions tuned to FOX, MSNBC and CNN. FOX coverage was definitely GOP-conservative based on who they showed walking in, the comments they made prior and afterward. MSNBC was definitely liberal based on the same thing. CNN was freakin' confused. I'm not saying anyone is lying, but if you watch all three, you'll get something close to the whole truth. Otherwise, you will get the truth that fits your version of reality. As a former union member (United Brotherhood of Warehouse Employees), I've seen good and bad union shops. I've been treated like crap by non-union bosses and union bosses. And $25 bucks an hour ain't a lot of dough, folks. It's $52,000 a year. Remember U.S. median income for a 4-person family was $70,354 for the period of October 1, 2008 through September 30, 2009. (Yes, 52K is a hell of a lot more than I make after 30 years in the news business, but that's what I get for choosing my profession.) |
