| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
Without the logger and the mill owner, there would be no wood. | ||
| Froggy |
My girlfriend must be a logger and mill owner then....  | ||
| Nevrenuf |
and so they manufacture wood from what?? how many log homes were manufactured at the mill over the centuries.  | ||
| Firebolt32 |
even jesus knew the importance of being a carpenter. Yeah, but he was Jewish. He probably used chinese drywall because it was cheaper! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Built many logs home, have you? | ||
| Daves |
I have no degree. But I can help people buy stuff!  | ||
| Nevrenuf |
built many a fort as a kid though. a lot of them out of trees. | ||
| Blake |
Farmers, ranchers, and fishermen get my vote. Then military, defense, police, paramedics and emergency medical. The rest of us are just providing support, comfort, or entertainment. | ||
| Reindog |
Ummm...please explain why you think you are being funny. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I think I'm the only one in Georgia who doesn't run his A/C all day long. No A/C in my car, just two windows and a sunroof. The A/C unit in my temporary lodgings remains blissfully silent even though we are having extreme heat index warnings from the weather service. Jesus is the Son of God, and the Jews are His chosen people. Whether or not they choose to use inexpensive building materials has no basis in good humor. I'm just some guy on a motorcycle forum. | ||
| Slaughter |
re: a few posts above; if I were that ignorant or bigoted, I'd not display it so publicly. | ||
| Bill00 |
Isn't it funny how the people that do the hard labor get paid the least. (not funny haha, funny f***ed up) | ||
| Strokizator |
So you're saying my gardener should make more than my cardiologist? If that's the case then I'll hire my cardiologist to mow my lawn. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Bill00 Posted on Tuesday, August 03, 2010 - 10:48 am: Isn't it funny how the people that do the hard labor get paid the least. That's false. The most arduous work pays well compared to waiting tables or flipping burgers, or cleaning hotel rooms. Ask any steel mill worker, pipeline worker, lumberjack, stevedoor, drilling rig worker, construction worker, ironworker, etc. The lowest paying jobs are for the lowest effort and least skill required. Imagine that.  I am sooooo sick of all the socialist. Bleeding heart liberal nonsense, lies, propaganda. It's unbelievable how pathetically little to no critical thinking some are able to muster. If an idea fits their socialist agenda they don't question it. It's long past time to start ridiculing such propaganda and harshly embarassing it propagators. No less than the survival--more correct might be "resumption"--of freedom is at stake. It may already be too late. Stop being a fool for those who aim to take your freedom. They are ALL liars. | ||
| Moxnix |
Oh, whaaaaaa! Someone makes more money than me. Whaaa! It's not fair. The universe isn't fair. Odd, what, that so many people want to break everyone else's rice bowl to make things fair. When I was a kid, there were people who drove Studebakers and Ramblers painted gray with red wheels and went door to door handing out pamphlets for Technocracy. I see they are still in business: http://www.technocracy.org/ Lets pay the guy who mows lawns the same as heart surgeons and industrial designers. Sure, that'll fix everything. | ||
| Stirz007 |
I was always partial to Jefferson: "When the people get the keys to the treasury, the republic is doomed." "I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." "The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not." "Government big enough to supply everything you need is big enough to take everything you have ... The course of history shows that as a government grows, liberty decreases." | ||
| Cowboy |
Way to go Blake you are bang on I have made a lot of money in my life and there is no harder work than bucking bales of hay, but when you go to market with a load of prime cattle you get your reward. I have farmed, ranched, and worked the oilfield and managed to squeeze them in all at the same time. working 7 days a week and a hell of a lot of nights I have no time for winers and slackers. | ||
| Cowboy |
The problem with the American is the damn welfare I have had crops roting in the field and some of the sorry b%$#@%$s would not work because they were a fraid they may lose thier welfare check. | ||
| Stirz007 |
Bucking hay (damn 100 pound bales), stringing barbed wire fence, working on a tug crew, erecting steel tanks, welding tank cars (on the inside) out in the summer sun. All jobs that I have done and don't really care to do again. Take it easy on the Engineers, you MBA guys. We deal with life's modern necessities - you like that highway that gets you to work, that electricity you use, water you drink - do you like the fact that when you flush the toilet, the turd goes away? Financial wizardry may be important, but turn off the water, power and sewer for a day or two, and suddenly cost structure becomes much less relevant to people's actual lives. The financial crisis was created by a bunch of MBA's, right? | ||
| Moxnix |
No, the crisis came from Wall Street AND Washington, DC. All the masters of the universe managing money, all the adults who studied recess and lunch in congress, all the Kensyian economists who never signed a paycheck reading tea leaves. I voted in the MO primary today, against the status quo. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Isn't it funny how the people that do the hard labor get paid the least. (not funny haha, funny f***ed up) Isn't it sad that those who sacrificed the least amount of time and showed the least amount of discipline bitch about how much more those who struggled, saved, sacrificed, and were disciplined make? You drop out of high school, and you don't get to have the same earnings potential of someone who stayed in school, studied, struggled, and overcame to go on to higher education. An engineer who passed their PE or CE exam SHOULD make more than a person who just finished high school and does some physical labor job. | ||
| Bill00 |
"So you're saying my gardener should make more than my cardiologist?" That's being a little ridicules isn't it? I'm just saying that a person beating there body up trying to make a living should make a little more than minimum wage. It seems that most of the time pay is based on how much schooling a person has then how hard they want to work. I saw an ad the other day wanting an auto mechanic with two years experience paying eight dollars an hour. I would laugh at someone if they offered me that to work on cars. The shop I work at they'll take someone off the floor and set them at a desk to enter time and assign jobs and pay them more money. I don't get it, of course I would take it if I could stand sitting at a desk all day. I don't know, maybe thats why it pays more, or maybe because it's a white collar job. Blake, I don't know if that socialist bleeding heart liberal stuff was aimed at me, but I'm far from that. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Schooling = Training The more training one has, the more valuable they are as an employee. If you know how to use a shovel and not much else, you get paid for the limited knowledge and marketability you have. Don't like to beat your body up, take a night class, take a trade class, seek union training, improve your marketability. Marketability = Ability to drive higher revenues for your employer Rule of thumb is that if you aren't directly driving revenue you are just overhead. | ||
| Stirz007 |
I'm going to have to go with that Fat guy on this one. How much is something worth? Answer - what someone else is willing to pay for that something. One of my bosses used to say that he had no problem paying me $500 per hour, just so long as I could find a client that would be willing to cover the fee - no luck so far on that one. Personally, I invested about 10 years of my life with post-high school education. I worked my way through as a welder, machinist, bartender and a few other things. Got real tired of being called college boy (derisively) by guys who had the seniority to get the job postings (union shops), but couldn't pass the written tests (I could, and did, and got the job - then they dissed me even more). I do not in any way feel superior to the machinists, welders, carpenters and other tradesmen I have worked with over the years. I feel lucky to have been able to pass the tests, get the licenses, etc., that allow me to have better job security and not have to work outside during our balmy winters here in UT. Do I get paid more than tradesmen with similar levels of experience? Not by much. Do I have more responsibility? - Quite a bit. In my profession, you get to screw up exactly once (ever), then you get the opportunity to pursue a new vocation. To say that an unskilled laborer, who busts his butt every day should be paid as much as, say a medical professional, is off base. It all comes down to what the perceived worth of your labor is. Capitalism, love it or hate it, is pretty simple: As long as you are marketable (desirable) and can generate more revenue than it costs to cover your pay and benefits, then you'll probably have a job. The greater the revenue in excess of cost, the higher your likelihood of getting paid more. I make the exception that primary and secondary school teachers need to be paid more, IMO. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The reason why secondary school teachers aren't paid more is that capitalism has been removed from the equation. Good teachers get paid the same or less than bad teachers who have been there longer. Before institutionalized governmental education, teachers competed for jobs on merit. If you were a bad teacher, you didn't last long and eventually found yourself in a different profession. Good teachers moved up the line. If you really want primary and secondary school teachers to earn more, push fervently for school vouchers. This would allow competition back into the system. It would also provide the revenue necessary to justify the creation of new private (non-governmental) schools. It wouldn't be just the rich kids who could elect to leave the failed system. The poor kids could as well. For 2009, the national average public school per student expenditure was $12,018. The national average private school tuition was $8,549. http://www.edreform.com/Fast_Facts/K12_Facts/#EXPE NDITURES So public schools are spending more and getting less. Public schools could provide $9,000 school vouchers which would cover the average private school annual per student price and STILL have $3,000 left over extra for those who choose to stay in the school. This would allow the public schools to pay the teachers more while having smaller class sizes and provide competition for the private schools in recruiting teachers. | ||
| Etennuly |
Well without guys like me you won't be getting your products to market for long, new trucks will only move for a short time without maintenance and or repairs. Nor will you be able to move your junk into your new house that that carpenter built, who would not have had his materials delivered in the first place. Being self employed, my business degree has helped me understand what my accountant needs me to do, and how to discuss the repairs we might do to an MBA's fleet of trucks, and to interpret the technical information dolled out by engineers who built them, that is required to keep them running. In my situation the education has intrinsic value that does more than collect dust on the top edge of a picture frame. We get paid for actual production. Perhaps the most enjoyable part of my job is negotiating. It is done in nearly every element of business ownership, if you do it correctly. On the other hand, I have hired those $8.00 per hour guys, of whom many have an actual value of less than $3.00 per hour after you account for their mistakes, lies, stealing, and breaking and hiding valuable tools. Often this happens because their words painted a picture of their abilities that their hands could not live up to. They don't last long if they "think" they can do it. Others are 'stars' who make you glad you can employ them. When you laugh at an $8.00 an hour apprentice job, do you have training, schooling, tools and experience with real skills? It does not matter if you come into this field at thirty five years of age, with a four year degree and fifteen years of house painting experience, you don't have what is needed here. You don't "just" fix cars or trucks, there is a lot of technical training involved in every aspect of the field now a days. When you are installing a $2400.00 turbo, you don't "just" install it. When you paint a fender you might have $300.00 worth of paint in your gun, you cannot "just" paint it. An $8.00 per hour unskilled person can take you down fast. A good and true technician spends as much time over the years in apprenticeships, technical seminars, vocational schools, and inside tool trucks as most MBA's spent actually in class and doing homework. That $8.00 an hour spot is like freshman year to a person who has little money, not much scholarly ability, and a desire to better his life by making an existence while gaining the knowledge necessary to make a career where he otherwise may fail. Not everyone had or has parents with the life skills to set their child up from early on to go to college, like one often sees being the case for many of today's children. Where I grew up, and in the time that I was a child, the ability to go to college was more like winning a lottery. Sure the wealthy families sent their misbehaving brats, but to the rest of us in my area it seemed like 1 in 14 million chance. And the schools knew it, so their efforts to help were 'curbed' at best. My best employees are working on a percentage basis where their skills require them to gather the tools they need to make the work they do more efficient and proficient. Their wages are open when their abilities and desires do the talking. Many of these qualified individuals never went to college, some did not graduate high school or if they did it was low on the score boards. I dislike seeing them begrudged the ten years of hard work they put into an apprenticeship learning the skills that make them a decent living, just because they do not have a degree. I looked into changing careers with nearly twenty years in the business after an injury. The jobs skills professionals could not place me at that time because with my HS diploma, vocational training, professional skills training, and job experience, my pay grade was beyond what she said was an MBA with five years job experience after graduation. So off to college I went. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
everything that you just said about public education... prepare to say about healthcare. At least if you are walking in through the front door of the clinic  | ||
| Stirz007 |
Etennuly - For years, I was under the impression that you take care of your "stars" and try to improve your "underperformers". I was reading something by Jack Welsh (former CEO of GE) that basically says that you really should spend all your time on the stars, and let the underperformers wither and die (quit or lay off). He says don't waste your time on them. Any thoughts? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Oh, there will be two healthcare systems. There will be the public version that the average Joe's use, and then there will be the private system where quality, access, and results are above average. Right now, the only people who get to have private school access are those who can afford to pay for education twice, once in the tax payments assessed locally and Federally to pay for the public system and again when they pay the private school tuition. The healthcare system will be the same. | ||
| Xbrad9r |
Stirz, if you let the underperformers hang around it is my opinion that the stars will either quit or drop to their level. One rotten apple spoils the bunch is true a lot of time in the workplace. |
