| Author | Message | ||
     Just_ziptab |
Dinged a little sub contractor at our plant today for $10,000.00! Probably wiped out their whole summer of profit. How do OSHA people sleep at night,knowing that? Sure,they was in violation,but TEN GRAND! That's just asinine. | ||
| Oddball |
Sounds like a normal fine for them. Did someone vent something into the air instead of capturing/reclaiming it? | ||
| Oddball |
My goof, yeah that was probably one of the safety rules. Been hvac related too long and the 10k fine is a big thing that can slam down if you have someone brain fart or brainless. EPA stuff though. Knew a bricklayer that told me long ago he never worked a job site that met osha. | ||
| 1125rcya |
Now you know why UNION pays big bucks! These scabs have taken our jobs and now I'm laid off with over 200 hours of OSHA training. I hope OSHA hits everyone here in Indiana. I would say 60% of our work force isn't drug free, which then turns into safety violations  You get what you pay for! | ||
| Kc10_fe |
$10k is a major violation. Work safe or die stupid. | ||
| Bartimus |
So its the scabs fault that your laid off? I work for a union plant, and there are so many OSHA and NEC violations I don't know how it stays open. 60% of our workforce (union) isn't drug free either. The company can't drug test anyone unless they drug test the whole work force. Unions pay big bucks because they "supposedly" guarantee the company they are getting an educated, and skilled workforce. (not always the case) I've known many a journeyman that knew less than a 3 year apprentice, but still skated by, because he was protected by the union. Sorry to hear your out of work, but I fail to see why it is the "scabs" fault. I'm sure it's the economy that caused your lay-off. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Unions can complain about scabs or contracts all they want. In the end there are people at other companies here and abroad that will work for less and be more productive. I personally try to buy non UAW made vehicles because I know the person who made it most likely has a better work ethic. You can scream all you want that you are owed this or that but in the end price and quality determine where my money goes. Taxes and regulation are no doubt fueling outsourcing in the US. What kind of moron increases penalties on business with a stagnant economy? Maybe an ivy league scholar? But please by all means lets usher in a new era where the US is mediocre. | ||
| 1125rcya |
Telecommunications technician: I am a skilled worker trained on principle. Here in Indiana we earn every penny that’s received. It is cheaper for a major corporation to hire a non-union company to do the initial install and then have the union come in as maintenance and fix the trash that has been installed. The corporation finally realizes how much they are spending in an economic down turn just to maintain their business, we the Union then become the first to get the ax. We work hard to follow standards and procedures set forth by BICSI/NEC guide lines. The thing of it is, if the unions got the major install, the maintenance cost wouldn’t be as high, because of a proper install. When these untrained union company’s complete a job over 60% of the job is hazardous due to improper installation and taking short cuts to meet the under budgeted dead line. Don’t forget the cheap material that is used on the job. There must be a difference between a corporation and a contracting Union. Safety first, proper install seconded and speed third. OSHA and NEC/BICSI violations come into play when you underbid a job or are rushing for a deadline that’s unattainable (communicating with management becomes key). In our Union random drug testing is mandatory with a 24hr show up and pee time. It is normal for a drug trailer to pull up on site while working and test a % on that job. If someone doesn’t have a clue about their job, that just means other journeyman do not care. What a waste! I take pride in my work and love when people look at the final product.  (Message edited by 1125rcya on July 29, 2010) | ||
| Dalton_gang |
Jeesh Dude. Just because thats the way things may be in your little corner of the world with your little piece of the pie, that doesn't mean that all of us (as you call) scabs are substandard. If you want or need to be union thats great and your free to make that choice. Try to understand that there are a lot of us who don't want or need union representation and are highly skilled and educated. If you were for some reason to leave your union would you be any less qualified or would your level of skill change? You should maybe consider taking control and become the subcontractor. If you did I doubt that you would have much use for the union. | ||
| Ccryder |
I see violations everyday with our people and contractors. We are making it the responsibility of EVERY employee to work safe and report anyone that is not working safe. We will probably spend $100,000.00++ on safety training in the next 12 months. As Kc10_fe said: Work safe or die stupid | ||
| Tpoppa |
Sorry, but I don't support unions in principal. For my business, If I need repairs, I prefer to hire non-union even if the $$ are the same. I prefer to work with skilled people that are friends or friends of family. Sorry. | ||
| Fast1075 |
If they did something illegal...it was...wellll....illegal. Some of the rules are completely freakin ignorant....a local company got fined 10G because the employees were dumping their water kegs on the ground....FREAKIN' WATER...!!!! It was listed under OSHA regs as WASTE!!! It was WATER!!! Maybe they should fine God for RAIN...  | ||
| Strokizator |
Hey 1125, your posts go on about union this and union that but never mention one thing about the company you work for. Who signs your paycheck anyway - your union rep or shop steward? No, it's the company you work for that provides you with a job and a paycheck at the end of the week. It's your duty to see that you are worth every penny that they pay you. Even when I was in the union I was always a company man first. | ||
| Ccryder |
Interesting how this went from OSHA flailing to a Union vs Non discussion. Yep it can be pain to satisfy OSHA. You will be 80% safe (from their eyes) if you keep your people safe and accident free. It is very difficult to change a person's mind set after years of experience but if the mind set is not a safe one, it has to be done. If the whole circumstances of the original post were known, we would probably have much different comments. There is always two sides to a story even if only one person is involved. | ||
| Nobuell |
In the Chicago area our tradesmen ( fitters and Sheetmetal) have received $3.00 an hour raises every year for the past 6 years. All the while, the engineers, management, PMs have received very little in raises because of the economy and lack of work. Currently our tradesmen base wage is approximately $42.00 per hour. That is $87,000 per year. Now add in the fringe benefits ($23.12 per hour), payroll tax/workmen's comp ($11.00 per hour) and general liability insurance ($6.00 per hour) and the total rate is $82.12 per hour. That is $171,000.00 per man per year for just cost. That is our cost. We have not added the cost to run the company and small profit. Bear in mind that raises were received even though almost half are sitting on the bench. I do not buy into the claim that union does good everybody else does bad. I have a big problem with the unions continuing to get raises while the rest of us do not because of the economy and lack of work. I also have a huge problem with the increases that is making my company noncompetitive in the US and world market. I also have an issue with the ridicules retirement packages that are breaking union banks and are now pushing the wages even higher to make up the losses. If the wages are to high, we do not get projects. If we do not get projects, we cannot employ the union members. The union members are paid by companies like mine, not the union. This fact seems to have been forgotten by the unions. Simple concept really. | ||
| Nobuell |
Don't get me started on workmen's comp claims. That is a ridicules subject altogether. But suffice it to say that the professional tradesmen that we hire should know and practice safe work. They do something dumb, the contractor pays. It is funny how they work for the union until there is a workmen comp issue then they work for the contractor and it is our responsibility. | ||
| Odie |
I will never, ever understand how the union and the company can supposedly be working together for a common goal yet the union pits the the worker against the company all the time. "The evil company is bad; the union is good." How can this business model work?!?!?!? I'm in a union job and hate the union. No place for it anymore. We are going to negotiate ourselves right out of a job soon. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Back on topic, US Customs revenues are down 20% thanks to the global downturn. Customs auditors are fanning out looking for noncompliant importers who may be underpaying import duties. When times are good, Customs places emphasis on trade facilitation. When times are bad, emphasis is placed on trade enforcement. I suppose OSHA may operate in a similar fashion. | ||
| Ccryder |
I've been told that OSHA, EPA etc. have been tasked to show how they are spending the Federal $'s. There are inspection requirements for each organization to inspect companies, cities, states etc every so often and previously, they have been way behind. They are now trying to catch up so they can justify their existence. Last year I had inspections from 6 government agencies including 2 from OSHA. Clean so far but, it's no fun when they come knocking on your door, unannounced! Later | ||
| Acgwolfe |
There is good and bad to everything, same with unions. The work force as a whole benefits from unions, some because they are union and others because the company doesn't want their workers to unionize. So they take better of their people, we all benefit somehow. | ||
| Imonabuss |
Welkomme to Amerika 2010. You got what you elected. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Dudes! Dudettes! This isn't about unions. It's about ridiculous OHSA fines to companies trying to do business in this screwed up country. If you went with out a helmet in a helmet law state and the fine was ten grand when you got stopped....what would you say? An OSHA fine of several hundred bucks would be more than enuf to bring the company to an awareness level of a problem.I don't recall our company ever getting fined,but the OHSA compliance cost us $100,000.00....most of it stupid compliance crap like the above water keg fine. You can't make anything fool proof,the fools are too inventive. | ||
| Cowboy |
Talk about lost revenue in taxes just shuting down drilling in the gulf of deep water rigs will cost about 12 B in lost taxes. Also for every rig related job lost approx.60 non related jobs are lost. If america votes as reckless as they did last election we may as well bend over and kiss our ass good by. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Dealt with OSHA as general contractor for many years. OSHA's educated me, cited me, fined me, and wasted my time performing paperwork. It's not that big of deal. Simply typical bureaucrats. If we expect our gov't to "protect" us at home, on the highway, and at the market ... why not at work, too? | ||
| Fast1075 |
Had a contractor friend written up because he had a ladder on a site that was missing the label that warned that you could be injured if you fell off the ladder! This was after the inspector was shown the signed "toolbox training" safety sheet where they had a ladder safety course that very morning. Is uncle sugar going to follow you around with a team that have pillows so if you trip and fall, they will cushion you?? What the hell happened to personal responsibility and looking at what you are doing? Has the world gotten so bad that the majority of people are mouth breathing morons that have to be watched and told when to scratch their own ass??? If somebody is a freakin retard don't let em on a job site. The gene pool is pretty good at weeding out the truly stupid. | ||
| Cowboy |
the history of the situtation is ii we have let the goverment tax us till it takes both mom and dad working to make a living then we have had to let the goverment raise our kids and this what we have wound up with. just remember no body can raise children like mom and dad. | ||
| Mikej |
Politics, religion, Unions, all three are things that quickly lead to heated debates and often generate many emotional responses that often outnumber the factual responses. Arguing on the internet is like trying to teach logic to a dog, and after many lessons the dog will still crap on the carpet if you leave it in the house too long. Watch where you step and tread lightly, whether the subject is dog training, politics, religion, or Unionism. Now please excuse me while I go do some research on what it takes to get into the Chicago area Tradesman Union. I suspect it won't be too easy, and I suspect they won't want me working elsewhere while I wait for a job to open, I could be wrong but for $171,000 a year I'll do a little research. I suspect I'll still be unemployed after next week regardless of the results of the research. And about now someone should be posting a link to that OSHA certified Cowboy and Horse picture. I've been a Union member and I've been a non-Union employee and I've been burned and cheated in both types of situations. Life goes on, regardless, until it don't. | ||
| Tpoppa |
In the Chicago area our tradesmen ( fitters and Sheetmetal) have received $3.00 an hour raises every year for the past 6 years. We could have a whole thread about crooked practices in Chicago. Yea, I'm talking to you Metropolitan Pier  |
